notes from the journey

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Exactly.
I'm glad you had a good look and found that out.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by trysts

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by trysts
reply to post by ancientthunder

 

I am my thoughts. I don't know why anyone would try to separate thoughts from one's self?

Prior to thought you are.
Can you tell what the next thought will be?

I don't understand you, 'nowagain? I'm a thinking being. The "I" is thought.

Thinking (thought) is an appearance that appears and is known.
You are the knower of thought - you are the one that knows the appearance.

edit on 29-10-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Knowing is a thought. I am not separate from my thoughts. The structure of grammar may give the impression of an "I" which is separate from thoughts since the structure follows a subject/object characteristic--for example, when I say, "my thoughts", it appears that there is an "I" possessing thoughts like one possesses a hair-dryer, but that is an illusion. I am my thoughts.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Exactly.
I'm glad you had a good look and found that out.

Ok we both share the credit for reaching a understanding now.

reply to post by trysts


Knowing is not a thought.
Is seeing a thought? Is hearing a thought?
Seeing and hearing are known.

All seeing, all knowing and everpresent.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


If you want credit you can have it all.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Nah you can have it all. I dont need possessions. i just need good night sleep and connect with the emptiness of nothing.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by trysts

 

Knowing is not a thought.
Is seeing a thought? Is hearing a thought?
Seeing and hearing are known.

All seeing, all knowing and everpresent.

Knowing is a thought. It's a concept. You may say that "knowledge" is based on the senses, but that is not the same as saying "knowing" is seeing, or hearing. Knowledge is a construction of thoughts.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


i want to die with no possessions at all.

reply to post by trysts


What is appearing presently as light and sound does not have to be thought (conceptulized). It is and without words (concepts) is known.
Words appear and the words are known.

Humans rarely stop thinking so do not realize that existence exists prior to words being forced upon it. The words and concepts hide the truth which is hidden in plain sight.

Non conceptual awareness.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Mabey best way to explain what the now is to people is to ask them what they are aware of when waking from deep sleep. The problem people have understanding the concept of nothing is that words are being used to describe it.

Ok im crashing now...because sleep is the only way to really understand nothing.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by trysts

 

What is appearing presently as light and sound does not have to be thought (conceptulized). It is and without words (concepts) is known.
Words appear and the words are known.

Humans rarely stop thinking so do not realize that existence exists prior to words being forced upon it. The words and concepts hide the truth which is hidden in plain sight.

I don't know what you're trying to say with these remarks? I thought we were speaking of whether or not the "I" can be separate from thought? When I see a light, or hear a sound I'm not seeing and hearing me, rather the "me" is what I think of the light and the sound.

reply to post by trysts


Thoughts are known to be happening.
Something knows the thought as it appears - whatever that is, it is there prior to the thought and is still there after the thought has passed.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by trysts

 

Thoughts are known to be happening.
Something knows the thought as it appears - whatever that is, it is there prior to the thought.

I am my thoughts. I think about thoughts. I'm a continuous flow of thoughts. For you, I am the words that I type, while for me, I am my thoughts. If you want to add an unknown knower to yourself, that's fine. But that concept just seems empty to me.

reply to post by trysts


I am the quiet that contains the mind.
youtu.be...

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Yes, she is as obscure as you are, 'nowagain.

reply to post by trysts


Try this one.
youtu.be...

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Well, she's saying that the mind hides Being, but when she tries to speak about it she finds that the subject/object characteristic of the language she would use betrays her idea. At one point she says she should just not say anything, because describing her idea of the mind hiding Being, fails in language. That's understandable, and it reminds me of Heidegger's ontology.

reply to post by trysts


Mind is words and images overlaying what is.
What is; is what is appearing without conceptulization (without words). What is here now does not have to be understood for it to be. Conceptulization is a way that the mind understands - it has to translate what is seen into symbols. The symbols are words that make up language.
Before you could speak, before you had been programmed with words by parents and schooling you did not have words or concepts. You had no ideas about any things.
Things and ideas and concepts are secondary, they arrive after you.

Being is prior to any concept.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


But I'm not an infant any longer. I learned language. Whatever I was as an infant doesn't inform me about about my "self" now. My thoughts are still me, my "self".

Originally posted by trysts
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

But I'm not an infant any longer. I learned language. Whatever I was as an infant doesn't inform me about about my "self" now. My thoughts are still me, my "self".

Can language describe what you are now?
youtu.be...