bear with me one second.......

i know there are a LOT of people across the globe and across the US and Europe that believe, even before government or news outlets have spoken, that it will all be lies, especially about political issues, foreign policy, activity, etc. i know there are a great many people that believe that anything bigger than them can't be good and can't be trusted.

so......

what if?

what if they aren't lying?

what if there is really a guy named Osama bin Laden and he is not some CIA operative named Tim Osman or whatever the phuk, and he really did orchestrate the events of 9-11 and it really did involve crashing actual planes into the WTC towers and the Pentagon and that it really was the heat and the impact that brought them down? and what if there was no Mossad or US government plot or complicity?

what if the search for him really is where it says it is, that he is thought to be in one of 2 spots and that he is being persued?

what if the war in Iraq is really to help the country become a democracy? what if the people there really do welcome US involvement? what if Saddam really did have at least the rudimentary beginnings of a WMD program and really did ship them to Syria or somewhere else nearby? what if the insurgents are really outside forces from wherever?

what if our government refuses to accept oil as payment from Iraq? what if Iraq actually does become a stabilizing force in the Middle East?

what if everyone is actually telling the truth?

Hi fledgling666

Thats a lot of 'what ifs'

Ask your self the question, DO YOU BELIVE THE STORIES?

i know of no one who takes what any government say seriously, let alone belive them.

Good post though, even though any sane minded person knows it to be a crock of BULL! what the governments say.

Cheers
Bikereddie in the uk

finally a poster with a grasp of reality.

good jog fledgling.

Originally posted by Bikereddie
Hi fledgling666

Thats a lot of 'what ifs'

Ask your self the question, DO YOU BELIVE THE STORIES?

i know of no one who takes what any government say seriously, let alone belive them.

Good post though, even though any sane minded person knows it to be a crock of BULL! what the governments say.

Cheers
Bikereddie in the uk

the question is mine, to you, not the other way around. it doesn't matter if i believe the stories or not, i'm asking the questions.

[edit on 19-10-2004 by fledgling666]

reakon my answers in the reply.

i dont belive anything they say.

Because, fledgeling, that wouldn't be any fun, now would it?

sounds like a whole load of bull *cough* to me

Originally posted by fledgling666
...i'm asking the questions.

Dude, that's AWESOME! I laughed so hard I think I poo'd!

Com'on people we all have the right to dream the ifs and ors of the political propaganda.

Americans ask the questions all the time to our politicians to tell the truth, but do they answer the questions? NO! they encourage you to dream the truth.

[edit on 19-10-2004 by marg6043]

Now I like a good 'conspiracy theory' as much as the next man or woman, but why must there ALWAYS be one????

You know I have, as some of you would say "Worked for the Man". Yes I have served in the military, in quite sensitive areas. Yes I have also been a Police Officer and worked in other areas of the Government.

BUT

I have found over the years that if you look at the FACTS then the majority of conspiracy theories do simply not ring true.

Do you honestly believe that Osama Binladen is a figure who has been created to allow Bush and Blair to pursue a hidden aggenda?????? What about the theory that they are both totally incompetent at being leaders of 1st world nations and have allowed events to escallate beyond their control???

An excellent example of debunking a CT is the investigation that a member of the site carried out to prove that an aircraft did hit the Pentagon on 9/11. He/she simply examined the FACTS, which is something we should all be doing!

Yes Osama and his cohorts used to work for us. Back then we had a common enemy. When this was no longer the case, they were so used to war, that they simply wanted to continue fighting, despite the fact the enemy was no longer there. So they looked for a new cause, and a new enemy, and in true animal fashion, bit the hand that once fed them...

Yes, his cohorts are the ones who hijacked planes and crashed them into the WTC and the Pentagon... Jury is still out on the other plane, but I wouldn't discount the military bringing it down...nor would I disagree with it...it would have simply been necessary. Still, evidence points to the current story being correct.

As for where OBL is now, my money's on the Afghan/Pakistan border mountains, and boxed in by troops... The troops think they are holding their position, and likely have no clue that they are actually there to contain OBL until the timing is right (which may even be AFTER the election).

The war in Iraq is another matter. Saddam was attempting to convince the rest of OPEC to switch to the Euro, as he did after GW1... He was also sitting on a lot of oil, and making shady deals to get around the sanctions. There are a host of other things as well, but Bush supposed that the doubtful existence of remaining WMD would be enough to justify regime change to the world. He was wrong. Had he instead waited just a little longer, he could have come up with enough convincing arguments for it (such as Saddam's support of terrorism, exposing the Russian, French, and German deals, etc.), but he didn't.

The Iraqis don't want democracy...they aren't used to it, and could care less to be quite honest... For centuries they've been more towards theocracies, and you'll see that in the votes for clerics as politicians... It WILL be a theocracy, initially elected as a democracy...that point is simply unavoidable.... No doubt many of the insurgents are actually foreign terrorists...btw, as Bush failed to initially secure the borders when invading.

Nothing will "stabilize" the Middle East as long as Isreal is there, and the West keeps troops there....and Isreal isn't going anywhere, neither are we, so instability there will simply go on as it always has..... Eventually, one of these nutjobs is going to use a few nukes, and then it's go time...and the world will never be the same place afterwards....

Osama bin Laden would be nothing more than a spoiled rich kid were it not for us. In fact, had we not trained him as a leader, and equipped his units with our tax dollars, he'd likely be dead right now.

But he most certainly is real. And he most certainly is pissed at us and his home country. And he's absolutely insane!

Originally posted by moxyone
finally a poster with a grasp of reality.

good jog fledgling.

I concour......Great Job m8!

Originally posted by bodrul
sounds like a whole load of bull *cough* to me

but the other side sounds the same to me as this side sounds to you. so who's right? is it somewhere in the middle?

Originally posted by DeltaChaos

Originally posted by fledgling666
...i'm asking the questions.

Dude, that's AWESOME! I laughed so hard I think I poo'd!

well, i did, didn't i? i'm not sure if you're mocking me or not, but i suspect you are. i did ask the question and i meant it. i was hoping there'd be more of you intelligent people to actually take the challenge of thinking about it from a different angle for once.

Originally posted by BillyTheCat
Now I like a good 'conspiracy theory' as much as the next man or woman, but why must there ALWAYS be one????

and that's the point.

Originally posted by fledgling666
what if everyone is actually telling the truth?

That would be great if they were actually telling the truth. Unfortunately, I believe they are not telling the whole truth. It is partially mixed with truth and deception, with deception being the main agenda.

Believing the fairy tales made by the Governments and media about what you wrote is just like being asleep at the wheel of your life.

Originally posted by fledgling666
...i'm not sure if you're mocking me or not, but i suspect you are...

Not mocking you at all. Just the way that was written struck me as funny.

As for the thread, I absolutely agree. The thing is with humans, something happens, some guy tells the story, and since he thinks its more important that the people to whom he tells the story like him, he embellishes. For the sake of a good story. So people will listen to him next time he has a good story. Geez, just look at the bible!

I like Roger's fourth standing order which reads:

Tell the truth about what you see and what you do. There is an army depending on us for correct information. You can lie all you please when you tell other folks about the Rangers, but don't ever lie to a Ranger or an officer.

If people lived to a standard similar to this (other than the part about lying to some people and not others), we probably wouldn't have our heads so far up our culos right now. Or at least we might have some idea what the hell was going on.

[edit on 19-10-2004 by DeltaChaos]

Originally posted by DeltaChaos

Originally posted by fledgling666
...i'm asking the questions.

Dude, that's AWESOME! I laughed so hard I think I poo'd!

LOL! So did I. It's like he is some bad cop from standing over you in a cold room lit by a single unshaded bulb, slams his fist down on the table and says, "I'm asking the questions..."

And you just burst out laughing.

[edit on 19-10-2004 by cargo]

Originally posted by cargo
LOL! So did I. It's like he is some bad cop from standing over you in a cold room lit by a single unshaded bulb, slams his fist down on the table and says, "I'm asking the questions..."

And you just burst out laughing.

Yeah, that's exactly how it sounded to me.

Like that "Where were you next Thursday night" commercial.