People find identity within a cause, why? False identity.

People identify with causes, but why?

I ask this as an avenue towards discovering the real reasons why we take issue with things in the world that we cannot control.

I would venture to say that any issue we hold to be important to us personally in which we have no control over is an externalization of an internal conflict that we have yet to resolve. Anything past a simple and passing curiosity is a good example of this.

why do we look to global issues of world peace or famine as something personal? We see in them something that we internalize and generate emotion to. The question is what is that emotion really and what purpose does it serve?

If we were to have a conflict within us of harmonizing the conscious mind with the subconscious mind, that was too hard to deal with, we might instead translate our struggle to change our mind´s reality so as to conform it to our expectation of ourselves. That in turn into a struggle to make reality conform to our expectations for the world there by rationalizing our behavior and allowing us to continue functioning as normal. In the process though we might ascribe to ourselves identity that is not our own, but rather a projection of the world modeled in our expectations of it.

In an effort to break down the process let us examine world hunger. While it is not my express concern since I am not asking for us to analyze why we take up the cause of world hunger, but rather why we take up causes in general and identify with them. The following is an example of many possible from infidelity, to politically charged ones. So to make it clear, I have no issue with ending world hunger. I only wish to examine the mental process that assigns identity to a cause, in this case world hunger.

If when you pass a homeless man begging, you must avoid eye contact because you know you will not give him money, you might then in a casual conversation become suddenly very passionate about world hunger. You might then justify your individual position of "world hunger is a crime perpetrated by so so". I /we would /should do such and such. Though vocally to others in the conversation you are establishing a response that you are seemingly in control of but admittedly powerless to do anything about. You justify it internally to your own psyche as the impotence of that internal struggle created by your conscience seeing you well fed and others not so.

On a conscious level guilt is easily handled in this situation. "I cannot blame myself for eating well, and that African child not so" " I am not in Africa" or whatever such rational reason we can think of to cancel out the natural feeling of discomfort in seeing another human being starve. subconsciously things are less organized and so being more volatile are more damaging. They are more so conflictive when the reality they occupy is closer to your own immediate reality.

The emotion we feel when we get passionate about "world hunger" is really our subconscious internalizing the external worlds problems in an effort to make a loose connection to our own internal conflicts.

The guilt of not literally picking up a hungry person you see in your immediate reality and feeding him until he is healthy provokes the feeling of discomfort in looking at him and walking away. It subsides consciously by logic but is magnified subconsciously where logic does not hold ground.

We know consciously that there is nothing we can do, internally we do not make that distinction. So instead of provoking a conflict expressible in a controllable situation like the homeless man in from of you, the mind externalizes it into an internal conflict with the greater reality around you that is out of control.

You can't not literally pick up the worlds homeless and feed them until healthy. This subdues the subconscious by establishing a universal "truth" that the hungry and homeless cannot be picked up and fed. So you're not doing so in your reality you control is the same as not being able to do so in the greater reality you do not control.

Balance is restored but in the process we mistakenly take up the cause of a stance against world hunger because after balance comes the resolution of the discomfort that still remains, though now understood apparently. We identify with it as something personal when it is simply the rationalization of the subconscious finding an explanation to your conscious decision that you are impotent to fix that homeless guys situation, even though you want to.

when we describe external as opposed to internal conflicts, like world peace, poverty, corruption, and ascribe to them an internal process we are trying to make a loose connection to something within us that we cannot control.

Similarly we look to other such parts of reality we have no control over in an attempt at finding resolution to conflicts in our immediate reality we do not like that will never come. like starting a task, knowing it will never be accomplished, so when the question of progress comes along we can say it is on the way. "how is that homework coming along? "I am working on it"

If our sense of impotence in "fixing" our internal issues of ethics or conscience is dependant the world fixing its own global issues with the same, we cannot put pressure on ourselves to change.

Like if I were to have a problem with infidelity, I might say that the big problem as I see it would be that society does not raise woman as they did in the past and that most are not loyal, or not conducive to loyalty. I would then be off the hook with my own conscience when the issue comes up in my mind since I have no control over society and its complexities.

I would be avoiding simply controlling my urges and being loyal to my partner.



that is from another post I made that gave me the idea for this thread. I modified it to be general and apply to the thread,

reply to post by manykapao


What we conceptulize in our minds, and what we feel in our hearts have limited reach into manipulating our fellow man to change. The solution to hunger in the world requires a paradigm shift in humans to drop their ego pursuits and get on practically with fixing all the holes in the roof of the house. Our subscious internalizing our feelings of helpless and identifyying these with a cause, generally ones doomed to failure is just the human psyche at play. Remember the Ufo disclosure pertition to the white house as an example. It was doomed to failure from beginning but the human psyche was in control and it demanded it be sent in. The human psyche demands we obey it but doesnt necessary care if it delievers a positive outcome.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


yes, I agree world hunger has solutions, but My curiosity is focused on why we internalize causes, why we make the distinction

of course people do not want to see others starve. Yet some find identity with that as if it were not true that people do not want to see people starve.

Or any cause you can think of. Most make it out as if it is an exception as individually unique as the very personality you are.

like you can ask someone to tell them about themselves. They can say they are against world as an attribute to their identity and have it be a valid answer, when in reality it is part of human nature to feed a starving person.

There is of course the darker side to this process where you ascribe to your identity an ANTI.....that is a similar process but with one or more steps involved.

When you see your identity in being against a race, sexuality, or other such nonsense.

being against world hunger is not really an anti, it is pro feeding people. Being against a race IS an anti, and has a more convoluted path to that false identity, as even the most benevolent mental mechanism provides. False identity from the true self.

reply to post by manykapao

False identity from the true self.

The only problem in the world that needs fixing is this. All other problems will naturally fall out with solutions after this is corrected.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


yes I agree it is in large part the crux of many "problems"

the true identity keeps us form false allegiences that bind us from doing what is inherent to problems finding their respective solutions.

Well, I think anything we focus on outside and feel anything about reflects ourself.
This is the concept of Chiron, the wounded healer.

Being someone who is naturally more introverted, I used to simply pay attention to what stirred a response in me as I observed the world, and then internalize my efforts toward it. Use the exterior world only as a guide or mirror. See the stick in the others eye and then pull the stick out of my own.

But I realized also that while that might be beneficial for me, spiritually, it made me completely ineffective in this world and in relation to others.

I realized that if people didn't exteriorize their inner "stuff" then no one would help anyone, or work on solutions to anything in the physical world. We'd have no excuse to interact at all.

So where this realization is useful in areas where you can't influence the situation, it is less important if you can.

But I am not sure what you mean by false identity.

Because there is a very strong belief in an 'inside' and an 'outside' a separation occurs.
You believe there is a you that is separate from the whole so a 'false identity' is formed.
This 'false identity' thinks it can 'do' so tries to do 'good'.

It likes to 'think' it is good and tries it's hardest to be 'good' because the belief is that if i am 'good' life will treat me good.

You can do nothing, it is done.

reply to post by Bluesma

But I am not sure what you mean by false identity.

Ill answer tha for OP. Its the path that takes us away from true identity. The true identity has no impression of self. Whats left is what has always been. - This exact moment.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Because there is a very strong belief in an 'inside' and an 'outside' a separation occurs.
You believe there is a you that is separate from the whole so a 'false identity' is formed.
This 'false identity' thinks it can 'do' so tries to do 'good'.

It likes to 'think' it is good and tries it's hardest to be 'good' because the belief is that if i am 'good' life will treat me good.

You can do nothing, it is done.

Everytime you post, I want to ask, why do you bother to post?

Why use the word "you" and tell people what they think, what they feel, what they are or aren't,

as if there is a "you" and "I"???

reply to post by Bluesma

Everytime you post, I want to ask, why do you bother to post?

i detect aminosity. I understand itisnow.

reply to post by Bluesma


Posting happens.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Bluesma

 

Everytime you post, I want to ask, why do you bother to post?

i detect aminosity. I understand itisnow.

You are mistaken, there is no animosity (on my part).
I understand itisnow, in that he/she expresses a state of being, of Oneness outside of time and space.
What I wonder is - if one wishes to rest within that state of being, why did they enter this dimension?
Why enter a physical form and get into this illusion?
Much like I would be baffled to see a person jump in the middle of a basketball game and stand there proclaiming- this is JUST a GAME! It means nothing! It is nothing! It doesn't matter which team wins or loses, for "team" is only a concept you are holding your mind- there is actually nothing real that separates those members from the other members...

Okay, we can agree, this is true. And we know this. An dyet we are CHOOSING to hold this illusion, and play this game. We choose it because we are having fun. But this guy in the middle of the court seems to be having a problem deciding whether he wants to play or get off the playing field?

reply to post by Bluesma


Ill let itisnowagain answer you questions. I actually do understand you view and also Itisnowview by sticking on foot on the basket ball court and ther other one in the mystery. Itisnow is completely immersed in the mystery totally and unlikley can ever come out of it again.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

reply to post by Bluesma

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ill let itisnowagain answer you questions. I actually do understand you view and also Itisnowview by sticking on foot on the basket ball court and ther other one in the mystery. Itisnow is completely immersed in the mystery totally and unlikley can ever come out of it again.

reply to post by Bluesma


You believe there is a choice? That there is a 'me' that can choose this or that.
You 'think' there are other dimensions?

The image appears (illusion) - what choice is there in what appears?
The image is seen as it is.

reply to post by Bluesma


well false identity is the part of the process where we see our role and take along any secondary supporting roles that we see necessary to the prime one. It usually employs a form of dark logic to justify the transformation from real to alternate /external self.

Let me elaborate.

If I am against abuses to my people, for the cultural pride of my people, my identity within my people then might then confuse me into being against another that I see as a threat to my people, perhaps by stealing my people´s jobs, or other such issue.


so my identity would then align as ANTI-immigration, or anti a particular ethnic group that represents that immigration I see as a threat. An external group and force I internalize and mark as MY identity, rather than having a label and definition FROM my identity/ personality.

EDIT:

and that is all coming form a false identity that you are against abuses to your people in a more finite way, so as to make it your identity. Of course you would be against abuses to your people, everyone is, that is human nature and not a form of identity. In this sense that false identity takes on another then as illogical but in the persons mind as valid.

reply to post by manykapao


So really what your saying in laymans terms is any externalisation of actions enacted that which aligns with crusades which are not of your own unique origin are false.....a false identity/mask being used to quest for someone elses holy grail.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


in a way, I don't understand that entirely, but yes that can happen when you externalize your identity. Your true identity is entirely internal and is what aligns with a group or other such external force or entity. I like Mediterranean food, so I must be LIKE Mediterranean. Not, I am Mediterranean, I MUST like Mediterranean food.

your true self could be Mediterranean and hate its food. Or love it but LOVE eastern food more...

Your identity is what really is your reality and everything else is what is aligned to it. Not the other way around.


that can be confused and used to other people´s benefit. If they know the process and some concept of dark logic loops.

Socially implied identity roles are fundamental to our growth as human beings and are a natural extension of all of our other base instincts and urges. The reason that we wish to help others, once the trappings are stripped away, is that their suffering compromises our own attempts to idealize our world. Helping those who are less fortunate is no different, realistically speaking, than dusting ones home or changes ones bedclothes. All are attempts to make our private worlds more perfect.

Charity, in that regard, one can argue, is an extreme form of selfishness and is a very clear expression of infantalism... the immediate soothing of that which causes discomfort.

In other words, causes are not false identities IMO... they are actually manifestations of our own egos and the never ending pursuit for personal comfort.

~Heff