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The elephant in the room...

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posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 08:55 PM
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ISLAM



Particularly, the coexistence thereof: Is it possible?

Whether it's the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Islam predicated terrorism, subjugation of females within Islam, Islamic intolerance towards LGBT people / "disbelievers" / those of differing faiths, Iranian nuclear antagonism... It seems undeniable that the core question we're all, for one reason or another, eliding to ask is:

Can Islam coexist within a non Islamic world?

The answer seems to be... no. Islam cannot exist peacefully unless it is within an Islamic societal framework. All the current and historical evidence points to the reconciliation of Islam with free-thinking, Western (much less secular) principles as impracticable. Even in non Islamic societies where Islam is present, the 'armistice' is either on tenterhooks, ready at a moment's notice to strike out at the merest perceived impropriety (Europe), or in direct conflict (Burma).

Islam's potential to assert itself over a non Islamic society is directly proportional to its relative number of adherents within and the society's geographical proximity to an Islamic society.

How can we, as a science-based, pragmatic society, hope to commune with those inculcated with a dogma that fundamentally prescribes the dissemination of its doctrine and its ascendency above all other ideologies? How can we compromise with the uncompromisable? How can we congeal with the intransigent? How can a stagnant theology that cannot reinvent itself to remain relevant (i.e., manifest a 'New Testament') coexist with a modernity in flux?





posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 09:14 PM
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So whats the conclusion of your thread?
That Islam is a bad thing?



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 09:17 PM
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Off with their heads!!....off with their heads!!!

I'm jk


So your saying that islam is "join us or die" while everyone else is just live and let live?



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 09:18 PM
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Islam is a Shadow for the West in Jungian terms. Think Kain and Abel.
Islam was based upon rethinking Judaism for Arab tribes - the Religion of the Law.
Jesus is accepted as a prophet though Islam has a more realistic view.
We see ourselves in our past looking at Islam - the One-God faith, the impatience of making everyone a believer, laws and regulations for practical lifestyle. It is s clear myth of a Shadow archetype from a Western POV. And no, we cannot reconcile to our past. We also demanded conversion in the New World and everywhere we extended colonial empires.
Unless we see the striking similarities of the historical past of our Western World, and unless we have attraction to some parts of Islamic culture - be that Sufi Music, poetry, or the passion of imagined Islamic partners, we will totally fail this coming war.
Buddhism and Hinduism and tribal religions are TRULY different, as is Shamanism.
To grasp the similarities we would have to go back to a similar (planetary based) pantheon of the Greeks.
The polytheism of India is almost the same a that of Ancient Greece.
Which Judeo-Christian thinking tried to annihilate.
Jesus might have related to Ekhnaton karmically. (Adore one principle of Oneness at the expense of a polytheistic world view.

Now when you fight the shadow, it is advisable to have tolerance and beauty to lift it up. I honesty think if you do not identify with the music of Iran, and understand some basic Sufi poetry, don't attack them because you are suffering a defeat .
By love is how you can conquer your enemies. If you do not, they will say and do the unthinkable. Who would want that among military leaders?

In WW2, we understood the Japanese Imperial mentality - did not identify with it though - that is how that Empire was defeated.

There are suicide attackers in radical Islam just like the kamikaze. Unless you simply understand where they could be coming from (this is generally distorted in the MSM) you will have no comprehension why they mount such attacks.

We still had this collective identification a century ago. The Civil War is full of heroes who sacrificed their lives for the collective. This idea even pops up in a Star Trek movie.



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by Sablicious
 




Can Islam coexist within a non Islamic world?


The answer to this is foretold in scripture. It's so amazing and stupendous that you would never believe it if I told you. I will not tell you outright. You must guess. Genesis 42 answers this with a simple answer and this answer spells the end of the NWO with no might or strength required. This is the peripeteia of what will appear to be a tragedy in the world. The turning point and sudden realization changes the whole game. Islam, Christianity and Judaism become one faith and unite to change the world.

Can you figure it out?

13 But they replied, “Your servants were twelve brothers, the sons of one man, who lives in the land of Canaan. The youngest is now with our father, and one is no more.”

And now, for the key to the entire thing:

Genesis 45

4 Then Joseph said to his brothers, “Come close to me.” When they had done so, he said, “I am your brother Joseph, the one you sold into Egypt! 5 And now, do not be distressed and do not be angry with yourselves for selling me here, because it was to save lives that God sent me ahead of you. 6 For two years now there has been famine in the land, and for the next five years there will be no plowing and reaping. 7 But God sent me ahead of you to preserve for you a remnant on earth and to save your lives by a great deliverance.

All of this is foreshadowing to the next seven years. I say seven years, but the first must be an east wind that blows to take the harvest away. I am thinking Iran is the key to this wind. What is that foreshadowing telling us? How will this affect the NWO?

When does it happen? Two years after we see it start. Do you have eyes to see?




edit on 25-10-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by Sablicious

ISLAM



Particularly, the coexistence thereof: Is it possible?

Whether it's the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Islam predicated terrorism, subjugation of females within Islam, Islamic intolerance towards LGBT people / "disbelievers" / those of differing faiths, Iranian nuclear antagonism... It seems undeniable that the core question we're all, for one reason or another, eliding to ask is:


Can Islam coexist within a non Islamic world?

The answer seems to be... no. Islam cannot exist peacefully unless it is within an Islamic societal framework. All the current and historical evidence points to the reconciliation of Islam with free-thinking, Western (much less secular) principles as impracticable. Even in non Islamic societies where Islam is present, the 'armistice' is either on tenterhooks, ready at a moment's notice to strike out at the merest perceived impropriety (Europe), or in direct conflict (Burma).


uhhh Going out on a limb here but I would assume that you don't know very many Muslim people . The ones I do know from 20 to 50+ are great people very helpful ,community orientated , respectable , honest and that work hard . I am an atheist they know I am and I have never found that to be a problem we respect each other. We do not sit there and argue who is right till we are blue in the face .

Oddly enough the people I do have with forcing the religious debate are the catholic and christians . I have never once in my life had a Muslim people show up at my door on a sunday morning preaching to me about their god like I have lived under a rock all my life . The western religions are nothing to be put up on a pedestal by any means . Some different denominations of the western belief of the bible have been guilty for decades if not centuries for abusing children , another is acceptable to have many wives ( sometimes even as young teenagers ) ) there have been the crusades The list just goes on and on .



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by Sablicious

ISLAM



Particularly, the coexistence thereof: Is it possible?



No.

Not because WE don't want to coexist with them, but they don't want to coexist with us. To them it's Islam or bust.

Sure, most Muslims are completely peaceful, but they aren't "good Muslims" - only those Muslims that follow the Koran to the letter are "good Muslims" - and they most certainly are not in charge. It's like Sunni Syria being ruled by the 5% minority Shia Alawites, or the minority Sunnis in Shia Bahrain.

I have a Lebanese Shia girlfriend that constantly posts hadiths and other messages from the Koran that are truly peaceful and beautiful. She goes out and parties like any other 25-year-old, dancing and just having a good time. To her it is the Taliban, al-Qaeda, and the Salafists that are not "good Muslims."

If THEY saw her doing what she does, they would cut off her head.

The person with the guns makes the rules, don't ever forget that. And at the moment, the guns are in the hands of Radical Muslims.

So again, the answer to your question is no we can not coexist.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:43 AM
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Sorry, OP, but I have to disagree with you.

Religions can peacefully coexist. I live in an area where you can find any and all religions and houses of worship within blocks of each other. Even when incidents happen the whole community, no matter what their background, condemns it.

Remember what usually gets shown by the media for any religion are the extremists which is not a fair representation of any person's faith.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
Sorry, OP, but I have to disagree with you.

Religions can peacefully coexist. I live in an area where you can find any and all religions and houses of worship within blocks of each other. Even when incidents happen the whole community, no matter what their background, condemns it.

Remember what usually gets shown by the media for any religion are the extremists which is not a fair representation of any person's faith.




Dearborn Michigan is only 45 minutes from me. Those people don't look like the coexisting type.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 08:29 PM
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We can't coexist with them. We have to defeat them. But I love the tentative, almost scared of the sound of itself, voice, you ask this in. Because the logical answer to your question is unthinkable to you. That's how unreasonable people get the edge over reasonable ones, by making them feel they would have to go against their own morality to deal with them and the reasonable ones are not willing to do that. But the reality is, these people cannot be reasoned with. And we have to deal with that. Or they'll deal with us.
edit on 26-10-2012 by Hillarie because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 09:07 PM
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Vancouverites rioting after losing in the Stanley Cup Finals.




Canadian Muslims protesting the "Innocence of Muslims".



Point enough?



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 07:43 AM
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The OP's question is broken.

Has there ever been two different religious groups or ethnicities that lived together peacefully? Christian-Jew, Christian-Hindu, Hindu-Sikh, Hindu-Muslim, Black-White, White-Hispanic, etc., etc., etc.?

The answer is no.

Does that mean that we should all separate up? Blacks should go back to Africa, Hindus should stick to one part of India, Sikhs to another, Jains to a third, and all the Buddhists go to Nepal, Muslims stick to the Middle east and Jews...I dunno...go to New York?
The answer to that is no as well. That would be stupid.

So then what is the OP suggesting?



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by babloyi
The OP's question is broken.

Has there ever been two different religious groups or ethnicities that lived together peacefully? Christian-Jew, Christian-Hindu, Hindu-Sikh, Hindu-Muslim, Black-White, White-Hispanic, etc., etc., etc.?


there has been only 1 -- AMERICA

that is until radical Islam arrived on our shores with enough numbers to be accounted for.

America is a makeup of all ethnicity, beliefs, and cultures.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 



I guess you never heard the treatment of the Native Americans?
Or the blacks?
Or the jews?
Or the catholic immigrants?
Or the muslims?

The US might be a THEORETICAL "melting pot" of religions and ethnicities, where anyone can reach for the "American Dream" if they try hard enough, regardless of race or ethnicity, and it is a wonderful ideal to reach for, but in practice, this supposed era of wonderful coexistence and tolerance never existed.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by babloyi
 


boo hoo
well I guess this does fall under the conspiracies motto, unfortunately you are in a religious section, albeit on a conspiracy site.

There is no mention of conspiracy in in the titling of this section, although there is a section a few above this one which states "conspiracies in religion"

you are welcome to take your argument there is you wish? I would rather rely on self evident "facts" and the reality of the situation via observation of the world around me and the one I live in.

things have never been perfect... but using my seemingly natural left handers ability in gestalt it would appear on the whole that you are definitely wrong and incorrect on many of your assumptions.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by TTAA2012

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
Sorry, OP, but I have to disagree with you.

Religions can peacefully coexist. I live in an area where you can find any and all religions and houses of worship within blocks of each other. Even when incidents happen the whole community, no matter what their background, condemns it.

Remember what usually gets shown by the media for any religion are the extremists which is not a fair representation of any person's faith.




Dearborn Michigan is only 45 minutes from me. Those people don't look like the coexisting type.


Coming to a town near you...or your town. If they follow the pattern in the M.E., they will set up shop in one city, and then spread outward in all directions from there. They will try to set up shop in multiple cities and spread from there to facilitate conquering the nation easier. They come in and breed like rabbits, have a dozen kids when they can't afford to feed 2 and then the next thing you know, in 10-15 years your own people have become the minority, they get into government and other positions of power and start amending the laws, using your own laws against you to further Islam, such as "freedom of religion" and then by your refusal to allow them to oppress your own religion you are then denying them their religious freedoms, because Islam oppresses and suppresses other religions. In the end you wake up one day obeying Sharia when you do not believe in Islam and you have become muslim wether you wanted to or not and that's how they do it. When your people have become the 1% of the population, you will end up following Sharia wether you want to or not, the consequences of refusing may cost you your life. As for non-christians and non-jews you people just get destroyed because your'e worse scum than jews or christians and godless people deserve to be destroyed. Christians and jews get to pay jizzya poll tax to remain in existence and you may not build churches or synogogues or maintain them, neither can you proselytize, ensuring the eventual demise of your beliefs.
edit on 28-10-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 




They come in and breed like rabbits, have a dozen kids when they can't afford to feed 2 and then the next thing you know, in 10-15 years your own people have become the minority, they get into government and other positions of power and start amending the laws, using your own laws against you to further Islam, such as "freedom of religion" and then by your refusal to allow them to oppress your own religion you are then denying them their religious freedoms, because Islam oppresses and suppresses other religions.


"They come in and breed like rabbits,"

Well, is that a sin?

Did you know that according to the Bible, God commanded humans to

"Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.
- Genesis 1:28

At least the muslims are doing that. Do you have a problem with that?

Surely you, as a Christian...who loves the enemy..... cannot be against a group of humans being "fruitful and increasing in number", can you?
I hope.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 05:59 AM
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Elephant in the room, hmm.. That suits too much, but i'l like to put it as "blind men trying to figure how the elephant looks"
and the OP is feeling the tusks of the elephant and having a mental image of a dangerous animal, "for what on earth it has those two swords on face, no doubt to kill the infidels!!!"



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by freedomSlave

Originally posted by Sablicious

ISLAM



Particularly, the coexistence thereof: Is it possible?

Whether it's the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Islam predicated terrorism, subjugation of females within Islam, Islamic intolerance towards LGBT people / "disbelievers" / those of differing faiths, Iranian nuclear antagonism... It seems undeniable that the core question we're all, for one reason or another, eliding to ask is:


Can Islam coexist within a non Islamic world?

The answer seems to be... no. Islam cannot exist peacefully unless it is within an Islamic societal framework. All the current and historical evidence points to the reconciliation of Islam with free-thinking, Western (much less secular) principles as impracticable. Even in non Islamic societies where Islam is present, the 'armistice' is either on tenterhooks, ready at a moment's notice to strike out at the merest perceived impropriety (Europe), or in direct conflict (Burma).


uhhh Going out on a limb here but I would assume that you don't know very many Muslim people . The ones I do know from 20 to 50+ are great people very helpful ,community orientated , respectable , honest and that work hard . I am an atheist they know I am and I have never found that to be a problem we respect each other. We do not sit there and argue who is right till we are blue in the face .

Oddly enough the people I do have with forcing the religious debate are the catholic and christians . I have never once in my life had a Muslim people show up at my door on a sunday morning preaching to me about their god like I have lived under a rock all my life . The western religions are nothing to be put up on a pedestal by any means . Some different denominations of the western belief of the bible have been guilty for decades if not centuries for abusing children , another is acceptable to have many wives ( sometimes even as young teenagers ) ) there have been the crusades The list just goes on and on .

It is absolutely astonishing to me that anyone could be an atheist.A lot of people who call themselves atheists are not atheists at all. To be a true atheist one has to deny the very existance of an almighty God. The evidense that God exists is so vast and great that nearly all the world has some type of religeon. That puts the atheists at a very distiguished disadvantage. Their odds of being correct are so small that it is not wise to be in the group at all.
I realize that people who do not believe in Jesus as the one and only true messiah cannot help themselves. If they do not have eyes to see how can it be their fault? It is like condeming a man with no legs because he cannot walk. But God is always fair. Everyone who comes into this life earned their place in it by the way they behaved in the first earth age. However, everyone has the chance to work themselves out of a condemned position in this life. If I was an atheist with no eys ata ll to see or believe God's plan for earth and man I would play the odds from a self preservation mode. I would rather believe in Jesus and take God at his word and find out that it was all fairy tale when I die(I lose nothing) rather than to dis God and find out I was wrong and go to hell. It really is that simple. If you don't have eyes to see the spiritual truth of God's plan of salvation, you would be wise to believe in that plan of salvation and put your trust in it. If you are wrong you lose nothing. If you are right, you save your soul from eternal death. It is a nobrainer. IMO




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