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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
You are arguing for the sake of arguing here or you are losing it.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
When that occurs the person doesn't seem a little drunk they seem black out drunk. Regardless, if he was can't walk or talk drunk or slipping into a diabetic coma, he was NOT a threat or someone that even appears to be.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
He shocked the guy because he was UNRESPONSIVE. So you are telling me that a cop can use his taser for anything now? Not a threat, not uncooperative, unresponsive.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
This cop should be done. Cops should be allowed a lot fewer mistakes before losing their job. Also ones that show big lapses in common sense, or any excessive aggression - gone.
yet, he did
We do not diagnose medical conditions
i never suggested he did or should have, however, i still firmly stand on the "something is wrong with him" line that my grandchild would offer freely.
So no the officer had no way of knowing the individual was having a diabetic issue
just what i said, even my grandchild would notice and say something was wrong.
So which is it?
Originally posted by Honor93
yet, he did
Originally posted by Honor93
i never suggested he did or should have, however, i still firmly stand on the "something is wrong with him" line that my grandchild would offer freely.
along with "car accident = potential inujury", that's one fact he nor you can escape.
Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Xcathdra
yes, i read them, before commenting.
point is, you seem to think that "he had no way of knowing" and i still claim BS of the highest order ... even my 8yr old grandchild can detect when something like that is wrong. (no medical training needed)
Originally posted by Honor93
you are insisting that the act of tazing this injured party was a reasonable, justifiable act, so yes, you are not only insinuating but you are stating the officers actions were acceptable if not correct.
Originally posted by Honor93
this is not blind hatred, this is a firm disgust and abhorrence for both his acts and your argument.
Originally posted by Honor93 just what i said, even my grandchild would notice and say something was wrong. i stand by my original statement.
Originally posted by Honor93
oh Bullshizzle, terminology conflict, what are you guys Martians ???
since when are "law enforcement and police" separate entities with separate languages anyway ?
Originally posted by Honor93
you can argue it isn't a diagnosis all you want, good luck finding many who'd agree.
Originally posted by Honor93
... now it's different terms for police and medical ppl ??
really ??? hmmmm, guess i better keep a few dictionaries handy then, huh ?
[btw, you are sooooo full of it, i can smell it over here]
Originally posted by Honor93
yes, IF YOU ARE FACED WITH A DEADLY FORCE situation, which this wasn't.
so, next excuse please ?
Originally posted by Honor93
since protocol doesn't permit, instruct, authorize or even suggest using deadly force on a non-responsive person, yes, protocol should be followed as intended.
Originally posted by Honor93
oh please, medical services are always "situation dependent", nice try though.
Originally posted by Honor93
hahahahahaha, yeah he's a taxpayer using everyone ELSEs money, what's new there ?
Originally posted by Honor93
really ??? first you say ... maybe in some other state but you won't find that 'round here.
can't even get them to respond first to a shooting, let alone a car accident
Originally posted by Honor93
very few cops are licensed to administer anything beyond first aid.
and unresponsive requires more than first aid, hence, he likely wasn't qualified.
if you know he was, please provide proof, otherwise, drop the bone and move on.
Originally posted by Honor93
yeah, no kidding. (hence, they have NO authority)
no, they cannot "work" them, they can investigate and submit findings, nothing more.
(kinda hard to pinpoint drugs or alcohol when they are not welcome on scene isn't it ?)
Originally posted by Honor93
and yet, all that authority just doesn't permit, encourage or even openly suggest tazing an unresponsive victim of a car crash, does it ?
if you believe it does, please link proof, otherwise, find another bone to pick.
Originally posted by Honor93
surprisingly, my knowledge about how it works keeps me out of the system and away from the toads who trounce on the most unsuspecting victims along the way.
Originally posted by Honor93
hmmmm, head injury that hasn't shown bruising yet, sure, quite possible.
possible whiplash, absolutely.
since i wasn't there, i couldn't say if anything else was obvious, were you?
unresponsive and non-combative ... concussion, disoriented, stroke, heart-attack, seizure ??
allllll very possible on sight without having to touch or taze anything.
Originally posted by Honor93
yeah, all this yada yada yada and you still can't bring yourself to say the words.
he messed up ... or anything similar ... typical control freak.
Originally posted by Honor93
at least my posts aren't based on some non-existant authoritative fantasy like yours.
Originally posted by Honor93
sure is, i can be sued just like the next guy only the rest of the taxpayers won't pay my bill for me.
Originally posted by Honor93
when you find such an ignorant person, be sure to taze first and ask questions later
protocol and all
Originally posted by Honor93
edit: nvmind ... was gonna but it's not worth the effort.
edit on 27-10-2012 by Honor93 because: add txt
diabetes.webmd.com...
Early symptoms of hypoglycemia may include:
Confusion
Dizziness
Feeling shaky
Hunger
Headaches
Irritability
Pounding heart; racing pulse
Pale skin
Sweating
Trembling
Weakness
Anxiety
Without treatment, more severe hypoglycemia symptoms may develop, including:
Headache
Feeling irritable
Poor coordination
Poor concentration
Numbness in mouth and tongue
Passing out
Nightmares or bad dreams
Coma
Originally posted by Domo1
Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by Xcathdra
But you have posed your argument so that the officer may have been in the right - my contention is an unresponsive person involved in a car crash should not be tasered for not responding to commands unless threatening the officer. Your argument seems to somehow imply it is ok to tase an unresponsive individual.
CJedit on 27-10-2012 by ColoradoJens because: (no reason given)
I think the argument is actually what unresponsive means. From a normal person's perspective it would mean the guy was, well unresponsive. From a cop point of view it basically means non compliant. So if the kid is rummaging around under the seat and not responding to the officer the officer may very well be entitled to tase. I couldn't tell from the video what was going on in the car. If the officer went hands on and the kid started resisting, or if the kid was essentially blacked out.
I haven't seen Xcathdra defend the cop at all, merely offer another point of view. Considering the quality of the video, I think jumping to conclusions one way or the other is foolish.
I think we can all agree that police should be trained how to spot someone with a diabetic issue. Contrary to ATS popular belief I don't think the vast majority of cops in any way wish to hurt an innocent person suffering from a medical issue.
One thing that I'm taking from this article is that perhaps diabetics shouldn't be allowed to drive. I know next to nothing about diabetes. All I know is that when I was working in Asset Protection more than half the people would claim to be diabetic to try and get us to release them. I wouldn't but would offer to call an ambulance and make it very clear it would be at their expense. Never had anyone take me up on that offer.
Originally posted by Honor93
actually it doesn't ... they have very different symptoms, for example ...
diabetes.webmd.com...
Early symptoms of hypoglycemia may include:
Confusion
Dizziness
Feeling shaky
Hunger
Headaches
Irritability
Pounding heart; racing pulse
Pale skin
Sweating
Trembling
Weakness
Anxiety
Without treatment, more severe hypoglycemia symptoms may develop, including:
Headache
Feeling irritable
Poor coordination
Poor concentration
Numbness in mouth and tongue
Passing out
Nightmares or bad dreams
Coma
none of which (except the most extreme) are duplicate symptoms of both conditions.
Originally posted by Honor93
but leave it to the cops to suspect alcohol or drugs first ... that's the problem.
Since when is "unresponsive" scrambling looking for something under a seat?
Originally posted by ColoradoJens
Since when is "unresponsive" scrambling looking for something under a seat?
Originally posted by ColoradoJens
I can understand the idea of what is being said, and I appreciate it. In this case the argument for separation of knowledge before hand and the idea of dying for a crappy job and boss and unloving public is well made - we are all human and do whatever is right in protecting ourselves. That said, it isn't that the cops don't want to hurt innocent people suffering, it's that they do.
Originally posted by ColoradoJens
Regarding the last part, if and when it becomes an epidemic, the diabetic car crashes, then something will be done.
CJ
then link it, cause i know better and so does anyone else following this thread.
Yes sir you did
Originally posted by craig732
This medical issue is not addressed in the police academy (at least it was not in my region).
Originally posted by craig732
BS. In every police academy in the country they teach you never to move a victim of an accident if they cannot move on their own, unless their life is in danger if you leave them where they are.
Originally posted by craig732
This cop's attitude was not for helping and serving the public... it was an aggressive attitude. When cops show up on scenes with aggression on their minds instead of serving and protecting, don't defend them. It lumps you in with the bad apples that are spoiling the whole buch.
as i have been employed in 3 of those fields you listed and have family currently entwined in 2 of them, you are so wrong i can't begin to quit laughing.
Police / Law Enforcement and medical / EMS / Fire will have differing meanings of the same word
Originally posted by Honor93
he was diagnosed as unresponsive and not injured.
read the article yourself.
Originally posted by Honor93
ah man, after all this time, you still won't even offer the correct salutation ?
that's a MA'am to you ... sir.
ok then, same respect to ya ... just remember that.
Originally posted by Honor93
then link it, cause i know better and so does anyone else following this thread.
Originally posted by Honor93
what you linked doesn't say anything about diagnosing diabetic anything.
i said and i'll say it again ... clearly, obviously, even to a child, there was something wrong with this person.
Originally posted by Honor93
diagnosis is for those qualified to provide one.
compassion should be exhibited by those responding to "something being wrong with this person". clearly, compassion never entered the scene.
Originally posted by Honor93
like i said before ... BS of the highest order.
"something wrong" is not diagnosing a diabetic disability.
Originally posted by Honor93
i'm seeing and reading everything.
you want me to see something different, type it and i'll be glad to see/read it.
Originally posted by Honor93
yes, you pointed out a condition that does NOT apply to this situtation merely to justify your position that tazing was acceptable or necessary.
that's all you buddy, not me.
Originally posted by Honor93
i am ony responding to what you type here, if that isn't representative of your position, clarify it, don't accuse others of misinterpreting what you typed.
Originally posted by Honor93
blah, blah, blah --> [color=amber]alternative possibility for law enforcement actions ~~ and yet, you stick to "that's not my position" ... well, then, what is ?
Originally posted by Honor93
the best you've offered is ... you're wrong ... got anything better?
Originally posted by Honor93
you are so full of it a diaper wouldn't help.
Originally posted by Honor93
as i have been employed in 3 of those fields you listed and have family currently entwined in 2 of them, you are so wrong i can't begin to quit laughing.
Originally posted by Honor93
one day, your English will catch up to you and when it does, i sure hope you have a translator close by
LIAR, link it.
Again, you stated that protocols cannot be changed
again, liar ... link it.
You said law enforcement is not suppose to respond as its outside their area, which it is not.
Actually the symptoms of ketoacidosis / diabetic shock / diabetic reactions exhibit the same symptoms as an intoxicated person does.