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Just a question - can medical staff refuse to partake in abortions?

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posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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As a male, and particularly as a gay male, I consider abortion a female issue, and I never thought I would have to think much about it.

Politically I'm for a woman's a right to choose, and otherwise I'd prefer to think of it as a "heterosexual issue".

I know various churches and religions can refuse gay marriage in SA, although it is legal.
However, what of the nurses and workers in a clinic who have to perform abortions?
Can they refuse?

I've just read a book (actually about a woman who died of AIDS in the 1990s, after being infected by her husband), and as she recounts her life, she recalls an incident that caused her to leave nursing school:




The patient was a 16-year-old girl. I remember how they took the four-month-old fetus from her and dumped it in a silver kidney dish. The baby gasped and put its little hand out. It seemed to be looking for something to hold onto and all it had was the cold metal of the kidney dish for comfort, before it died. I knew that the baby had died when the little hand slipped off the side of the dish. ... It was then that I realized that nursing was not for me.

(Shelley Davidow: My Life With AIDS: Charmayne Broadway's story as told to Shelley Davidow. Southern Book Publishers, 1998, pp. 36-37.)

What is described appears to have been an illegal abortion perhaps, considering the history of SA.

Nevertheless, I'm wondering about a career in nursing, and how this works nowadays?




posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


An even better question: why would some one who opposes abortion work in an establishment that performed abortions?



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by RobertF
reply to post by halfoldman
 


An even better question: why would some one who opposes abortion work in an establishment that performed abortions?


You mean like a hospital


Every different hospital and / or country probably has their own rules on this issue.
In a large hospital, if someone doesn't want to be involved with the procedure, there would likely be another nurse to take their place.
You'd have to find that out prior to employment there.



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by RobertF
 


If you are working there, than you accept what happens in the facility.

Of course you could decline helping with an abortion, but depending on where you worked it could mean that you'll lose your job.

BTW OP that excerpt is really rather bothersome. As a father, I was almost brought to tears by it. I believe that abortion should be legal..... but at four months I consider it to be a child, so reading that is just heartbreaking.



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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This is also what confuses me: abortion has been legal in SA, I think since 1997.

Yet, despite some decreases, the maternal death rate from abortions is still high - 57 percent of women who die from abortions die from illegal and backstreet abortions.

How can this be?

I know some of our state hospitals and clinics are not up to scratch, yet one will find adverts and contacts for illegal abortions very easily.

I'm not sure of other countries, but here there is a split between government policy and the reality.

Medical students have to perform community service, and they do not always choose their work or institutions in order to get their degrees.

Here is what Wikipedia says on the SA abortion law:
en.wikipedia.org...

It includes this:




Health workers are under no obligation to perform or take active part in an abortion if they do not wish to, however they are obligated by law to assist if it is required to save the life of the patient, even if the emergency is related to an abortion.[5] A health worker who is approached by a woman for an abortion, may decline if they choose to do so, but are obligated by law to inform the woman of her rights and refer her to another health worker or facility where she can get the abortion.[6]


But considering that 56 percent of South Africans are against abortion in general (and 70 percent in cases simply for financial reasons), then how can one have a policy to allow it (not just to allow it, but to actually guarantee it), when the staff may not be present or willing to perform it?
edit on 25-10-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


Where is it that you live? You would have to consult local laws. Here in the US you can not refuse. And to the question of why work there, you do realize hospitals do abortions, which is where most nurses work, and you can be floated to another unit from your own unit.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
As a male, and particularly as a gay male, I consider abortion a female issue, and I never thought I would have to think much about it.
Nevertheless, I'm wondering about a career in nursing, and how this works nowadays?



When I was assigned to an Indian Health Service Hospital, a patient came into the ER for an abortion pill. I refused to give it to her. Having sex, just to obtain an orgasm for a few minutes, IS Not worth killing a life.
As far as abortion being a female issue, then when breast or cervical cancer is concerned, you probably haven't given it any thought as well.

Regarding you becoming a nurse. Really? Really!



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 




...abortion has been legal in SA, I think since 1997 Yet, despite some decreases, the maternal death rate from abortions is still high - 57 percent of women who die from abortions die from illegal and backstreet abortions. How can this be?


It may simply be due to social stigma and the shame of using the hospitals or depend on the process that a woman must go trough to get an abortion (steps involved, some my nations include a psychiatric analysis), costs and the legal limitations of said abortions (time of pregnancy).



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


Some nations where abortion is state funded and have a national health service, medical or support staff may request to be excluded to perform abortions. Justifications my be religious grounds or even medical ethical dilemma (do no harm). Seem reasonable in this case.

There is also a large offering of legal but private (for profit) network of clinics in most nations that permit abortion, to some point this clearly differentiate those that can pay from those that can't, but most nations with that permit abortion have reasonable family planing resources available, some even have sexual education in schools to my knowledge there hasn't been any grave problem at worst it may require some travel time to another hospital/clinic to surpass any critical blockade to the required function.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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reply to post by Violater1
 

Thanks for the interesting points.

Very true what you note about the gender double-standards.
And as I said in my intro - no I haven't given it much thought.
But as you point out, perhaps it's not just a women's issue, so maybe I should.

Nowhere did I say I'm becoming a nurse though.
I said I'm wondering about a career in nursing.
But that's not important, because it's highly unlikely in any case.

When you refuse a pill like that, how do you judge who is abusing them as a kind of contraceptive (for pleasure) or who is deserving?

Where will they go when refused?

How much will that child be loved if it's just a "consequence" for pleasure?

I've heard about men with breast cancer, but I've never heard of a man with cervical cancer.
Perhaps that's an issue for some men and their behavior, who are more likely to spread HPV to women, but it's not an issue for all men.

edit on 28-10-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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AFAIK, no Catholic facility/hospital will perform an abortion.

This is not a blanket endorsement of Catholicism... The Catholic religion and mine (Protestant) are way, way, way different, on a fundamental level. But that is one thing they got right. You would be safe there from having to participate in a genocide and murder any babies at mothers request.






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