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Forcing People to Pay for The Contraception and Abortion of Women is a Right for Women?

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posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I am pro-choice and I am for killing the raper. You are painting a broad picture but your view is pretty narrow.




posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Ok...let me back up a bit...I understand your point, and it is taken...but you do not have to choose to use the resource for such an act...but the concept of the pool is just that...when you pay in, you don't have the right to tell others what procedures they can or cannot have...that is along the lines of death panels...and let's just say I would prefer not to pay for cancer treatments for smokers (THIS IS ONLY AN EGS.I WOULD NEVER TRULY BELIEVE SUCH A THING) but by pool mentality I do so just by paying premiums...you are trying to pick and choose who recieves what services...and exactly what services can be offered...and exactly what taxes should I pick and choose to go where??? I'm truly trying to get you to understand the concept...not change your views or your moral values in believing how you do...they are good values, I recognize that and understand....



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


You are actually giving a link that corroborates my argument, and not yours... Again, go figure...



...
Health Insurance Defined

Insurance is a bit like a gamble between you and the insurance company. The company bets that they'll take in more money in premiums than they have to pay out in benefits, whether it's for health insurance, auto insurance, life insurance or homeowners insurance. You're paying a premium every month just in case something happens.

Health insurance is a contract between you and the insurance company that says that the insurance company will pay a portion of your medical expenses if you get sick or hurt and have to visit a doctor's office or hospital. Some contracts also specify that the insurance company will pay a portion of your medical expenses to ensure you don't get sick, such as paying for annual physicals or immunizations. However, the amount of your bill that the insurance company will pay, and under what circumstances they'll pay it is known as coverage and can vary greatly from policy to policy.
...

tlc.howstuffworks.com...

Do notice how the article CLEARLY states it is a contract between YOU and the insurance company, and this contract guarantees they will pay a portion of YOUR medical bill... Nowhere does the article say that it used to pay for EVERYONE's healthcare...

Seriously, people should read the links they give before claiming such links corroborate their arguments when in fact they don't...



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by Grimpachi
 


You are actually giving a link that corroborates my argument, and not yours... Again, go figure...



...
Health Insurance Defined

Insurance is a bit like a gamble between you and the insurance company. The company bets that they'll take in more money in premiums than they have to pay out in benefits, whether it's for health insurance, auto insurance, life insurance or homeowners insurance. You're paying a premium every month just in case something happens.

Health insurance is a contract between you and the insurance company that says that the insurance company will pay a portion of your medical expenses if you get sick or hurt and have to visit a doctor's office or hospital. Some contracts also specify that the insurance company will pay a portion of your medical expenses to ensure you don't get sick, such as paying for annual physicals or immunizations. However, the amount of your bill that the insurance company will pay, and under what circumstances they'll pay it is known as coverage and can vary greatly from policy to policy.
...

tlc.howstuffworks.com...

Do notice how the article CLEARLY states it is a contract between YOU and the insurance company, and this contract guarantees they will pay a portion of YOUR medical bill... Nowhere does the article say that it used to pay for EVERYONE's healthcare...

Seriously, people should read the links they give before claiming such links corroborate their arguments when in fact they don't...


This link has a simpler explanation...

www.superpages.com...



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Maybe you do not understand it is still a pool. That is the issue. Your argument is that you don’t want money from that pool to go to contraceptives and my argument is that isn’t for you to choose because it is a medical issue just like diabetes, heart issues, or any other medical procedure.

Private medical is still a pool.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi

I am pro-choice and I am for killing the raper. You are painting a broad picture but your view is pretty narrow.


And you didn't respond the question I asked...

What is more than likely to stop rapers from ever raping again?... Murdering the fetus/baby, or killing the rapers?..

BTW, so my view is narrow because I don't agree with you?...


Again, go figure... Apparenlty according to you I must be a drone/robot and think like you not to have a narrow view...
edit on 26-10-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by Grimpachi
 


You are actually giving a link that corroborates my argument, and not yours... Again, go figure...



...
Health Insurance Defined

Insurance is a bit like a gamble between you and the insurance company. The company bets that they'll take in more money in premiums than they have to pay out in benefits, whether it's for health insurance, auto insurance, life insurance or homeowners insurance. You're paying a premium every month just in case something happens.

Health insurance is a contract between you and the insurance company that says that the insurance company will pay a portion of your medical expenses if you get sick or hurt and have to visit a doctor's office or hospital. Some contracts also specify that the insurance company will pay a portion of your medical expenses to ensure you don't get sick, such as paying for annual physicals or immunizations. However, the amount of your bill that the insurance company will pay, and under what circumstances they'll pay it is known as coverage and can vary greatly from policy to policy.
...

tlc.howstuffworks.com...

Do notice how the article CLEARLY states it is a contract between YOU and the insurance company, and this contract guarantees they will pay a portion of YOUR medical bill... Nowhere does the article say that it used to pay for EVERYONE's healthcare...

Seriously, people should read the links they give before claiming such links corroborate their arguments when in fact they don't...

Please use your head...so by your thought process if a person starts an insurance policy on Nov.15 in the amount of the first premium being let's say ummm, $237.00....then on Nov. 18 you hurt yourself and need $3000.00 in hospital fees...the person will only get THEIR $237.00 worth????????? Uggghhhh, I give up...
I am TRULY trying to understand your thinking...but you are just making it impossible!!!



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
...
Private medical is still a pool.


That's not what the article you gave says... It actually corroborates EVERYTHING I said...

I wrote that you used to pay the premium, even if you didn't go to the doctor just in case you ever got sick, and that is EXACTLY what your article says...

I wrote that you used to pay for YOUR health insurance, and that is EXACTLY what the article says...

How in the world does that article corroborate your claim?...

The one missing the point is you...



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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My husband and I have been talking about this quite a bit lately because we are swamped with these commercials here in swing state Colorado.

I am a 35 yo married woman with two children. I have never had an abortion. I do not have insurance, so I pay for BC. I am stopping the pill due to age and now my husband and I decided we don't want anymore children, so he will be getting a vasectomy (yes, his choice!).

This is my stance: I am pro-choice, NOT pro-abortion. Though I have never had an abortion, I don't believe it is my place to dictate to women or couples on what they should do in their own personal situations, even though I can never do it myself. It is none of my business. ALSO, in NO WAY is it the right of any politician or group of politicians to tell me that I cannot have birth control (there's a lot going on with personhood amendments everywhere it seems) or dictate the business of my eggs, ESPECIALLY when I'm sure that ejaculation would not be outlawed due to "wasting" the sperm. I say, take away all pornography, viagra, etc., because fair is fair. Folks, it would never happen, because men are the lawmakers. That being said........

I do not believe that taxpayers should have to pay for birth control or abortions for other women. I pay out of pocket for my own birth control. I would never ask a stranger to donate to that cause. Birth control and abortions may be granted rights to women, but why should I pay for the choices of women I have never met? Even if it is medically necessary, like it is in some cases, I wouldn't ask someone to pay for it, just like I would never ask a stranger to pay for any other medical procedure. If someone cannot afford birth control or one's abortion, then ABSTAIN. Yes, accidents happen, I understand that, but the thing is, it shouldn't be the government's--or the taxpayer's--job to assume financial responsibility, plain and simple.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by rockhndr
 


and you actually think that laughing alone refutes my argument?... Really?...

When you used to buy health insurance there was/is alway a maximum that they will cover, but they will cover you ONLY if you paid for YOUR healthcare, whether you needed medical care right after paying your premium or years after...

Private health insurance didn't use to cover for people who did not pay for health insurance... That was up to Medicaid and/or medicare...
edit on 26-10-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Narrow because you insinuated all pro-choice people are against the death penalty. I thought that was obvious.

Seems like you want to make straw man arguments whenever your points get shot down.

So be honest is this about Taxes, Abortion, contraceptives or religious beliefs because I thought this thread was about contraceptives being included in all health plans?

What are your exact reasons why you are against medical plans including contraceptives.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Grimpachi

Can I ask why you are calling us foreigners because I have never heard of dual citizenship to Cuba? I understand you have family there but are you a citizen of the United States?
edit on 26-10-2012 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)


Having been born in Cuba you are considered a Cuban whether you have an American, or some other nationality's passport.

Cubans who live in other countries and want to visit their families have to get Cuban passports in order to be able to even fly to the island....


...
Cuba does not recognize dual citizenship. Cuban-Canadians must enter Cuba on their Cuban passport. They must also show a valid Canadian passport in order to return to Canada. Under Cuban law, the Government of Canada cannot provide consular services to Canadian nationals or to permanent residents of Canada with Cuban citizenship.
...

www.voyage.gc.ca...

You have never heard of this simply because you are ignorant about Cuba. I am not trying to insult you, just stating the obvious.



Nope, again, I think it is YOU who has a problem with reading comprehension. You are talking about an issue happening in AMERICA (Obamacare/taxes/statistics), comparing issues to CUBA, and calling people ignorant because they don't realize that CANADIANS can have dual citizenship with CUBA.

Unfortunately, all you have done in this thread is confuse facts and dodge the posts, ridiculing members for their personal insertions while remaining unapologetic for your own.


reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Wait... so those of us who are Pro-Choice but FOR the Death Penalty are rare like unicorns?

edit on 10/26/2012 by MonkeyFishFrog because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by riverwild

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by riverwild
If those engaging in that type of activity are not responsible enough to protect themselves,

they should refrain from engaging in it in the first place.


And if those engaging in eating bad foods, or drinking too much alcohol, or smoking cigarettes are not responsible enough to pay for their subsequent health problems out of their own pockets, then they should refrain from those bad habits, right?

How do you know that they don't always protect themselves? Women can get pregnant on the pill, and they can get pregnant if their partner uses a condom.


I believe the thread is about expecting other's to pay for their contraceptives or "habits" as you stated.

The people who eat bad foods, smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol dont expect others to buy them a bottle, pack of cigs or fries.

Back on topic.



But I have to pay for all their health problems as a result of them not being responsible with their own health.


Now, let's just reverse exactly what you said with what "YOU" think is right:

But I have to pay for contraception and abortion as a result of them not being responsible enough to protect themselves.

Why ok for one and not the other?

:



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I am pro-choice and I am for killing the raper. You are painting a broad picture but your view is pretty narrow.


Really? so the pro-choice AS A CROWD are all or most of them demanding for the death penalty of the rapers?

Please show me proof of this... Last I checked the uproar from the pro-choice crowd was about abortions, and not about the death penalty of rapers... If I am wrong show proof of this...

I didn't write "every single person in the pro-choice crowd"... I wrote "the pro-choice crowd" in general...

edit on 26-10-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse[/Well with that thought...what exactly is the difference between the new healthcare and ALREADY paying Medicare to low income families WITH children they can't afford??? (See what I did there?) What exactly do you think FICA Medicare and FICA OASDI stands for in your check?????????



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


You really do not understand do you?

Yeah I paid premiums for 2 years at a company. I probably paid in about 2-3K I then busted my knee the surgery cost close to 20k. So guess where the rest of the money came from? The insurance pool.

So what exactly is your argument?



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by riverwild
 


How is a woman using her personal, private insurance to get birth control being irresponsible?



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog
 


They are where I am from.
I have seen and heard of stranger things.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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If a man could get pregnant, not only would contraceptives be free, you would be able to buy the pills OTC right off the shelves without a script in this country. And a man would not have to jump through the hoops that some women have to in order to get an abortion. They would be granted one immediately. That's how it would be.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog


Nope, again, I think it is YOU who has a problem with reading comprehension. You are talking about an issue happening in AMERICA (Obamacare/taxes/statistics), comparing issues to CUBA, and calling people ignorant because they don't realize that CANADIANS can have dual citizenship with CUBA.


Of course you didn't read, or understand the part that CLEARLY says "Cuba doesn't recognize dual citizenship"... and I posted the information from Canada because it was the first link that came up... You can check any other link and the information will be the same...

BTW, nice going, you are actually trying to defend the people who have been ridiculing me, and claiming I am lying about being Cuban and knowing what happens in Cuba but you want to defend them?... Nice going...



Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
Unfortunately, all you have done in this thread is confuse facts and dodge the posts, ridiculing members for their personal insertions while remaining unapologetic for your own.


Really?... PROVE that I have been confusing facts when in reality I proved my points...

BTW, if a member insults me, claiming I am lying about being Cuban and my personal stories about Cuba, my experiences there and my family, you think I am don't have the right to respond in kind to the ignorance demonstrated by such members?...



Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
Wait... so those of us who are Pro-Choice but FOR the Death Penalty are rare like unicorns?


BTW, a link to an OPINION by Grimpachi doesn't make your argument right...



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