Forcing People to Pay for The Contraception and Abortion of Women is a Right for Women?

If those engaging in that type of activity are not responsible enough to protect themselves,

they should refrain from engaging in it in the first place.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

If you believe in killing your own baby that is your problem. I am not going to FORCE you to accept my view, but why do I have to accept YOURS or even BE FORCED to pay for it?

Don't you get it? It is not your business what goes on between an individual and their healthcare provider. Just like it is not my business what goes on between you and your healthcare provider. I don't need to know what meds or procedures you and your doctor decide you need to have for your health and well-being, as long as it's legal. My money goes into the insurance pot that helps pay for your healthcare. I don't have the right, nor should I, to dictate what I believe are the kinds of meds or procedures you should be allowed to have. Period.

Originally posted by selfharmonise
...
I still cant believe you're 40. This isnt helping....

Heck I was using the same tactics the other member was using, but I just posted one picture...

You obviously don't know this, but I have done a lot of research and posted threads about this topic extensively.

What, you want evidence to what the elites want?

I have even already posted, and demonstrated that the elites want to make legal killing born babies if the parents want no matter if that baby has a deformity or health issue or not... They even call this new view that is okay to kill born babies as a "LIBERAL view"...

Susanne Posel
Occupy Corporatism
July 5, 2012

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF) are focusing on population control through their Global Health Development Programs. By using citizens in under-developed nations, like Africa and India, was Guinea pigs for their research and development for “new interventions such as vaccines, drugs and diagnostics”, these globalists hope to ensure their family planning schemes are effective.

Melinda Gates has made family planning and the population control agenda her personal mission . She justifies her cause by claiming that 100,000 women die in child birth from unintended pregnancies. Although this statistic has no scientific basis, since it sounds good and mainstream media do not check facts, it has helped the BMGF team up with the British government to raise more than $4 billion to fun depopulation programs under the guise of bringing contraceptives to under-developed nations.

The BMGF assert that by 2050 “the global population is expected to grow to over 9 billion people” and this is unacceptable to them. By applying pressure to social programs and resources, the BMGF want to use family planning as an investment for all national governments globally.

Strategies to accomplish their goals include:
Using financial influence to force governments and policymakers to implement their family planning schemes
Empower NGOs who promote family planning propaganda
Coerce the integration of family planning into all “humanitarian” efforts by using funds from the UN Global Fund
Pour money into efforts that further family planning through national policy controls that adhere to the UN’s Millennium Development Goals

BMGF has partnered with drug corporations like Shanghai Dahua Pharmaceuticals in China to develop implantable fertility controls that will be used in over 20 developing countries to curb population growth.

The injectable Depo-Provera is being sold to under-developed nations and being administered by healthcare workers and nonmedical providers, or by the women themselves. Policy and training systems are underway to ensure these drugs are utilized in areas like the sub-Saharan Africa. By using these areas as testing grounds for new fertility drugs, as well as forcible sterilization schemes, the BMGF are focusing on preventative situations over dealing with abortable pregnancies which become complicated.
...

occupycorporatism.com...


What, you didn't know that services to third nations by the use of "planned parenthood" and other population control schemes from the elites, there are FORCED sterilizations without the consent of the women?...

UK aid helps to fund forced sterilisation of India's poor

Money from the Department for International Development has helped pay for a controversial programme that has led to miscarriages and even deaths after botched operations


Gethin Chamberlain

The Observer, Saturday 14 April 2012


Tens of millions of pounds of UK aid money have been spent on a programme that has forcibly sterilised Indian women and men, the Observer has learned. Many have died as a result of botched operations, while others have been left bleeding and in agony. A number of pregnant women selected for sterilisation suffered miscarriages and lost their babies.

The UK agreed to give India £166m to fund the programme, despite allegations that the money would be used to sterilise the poor in an attempt to curb the country's burgeoning population of 1.2 billion people.

Sterilisation has been mired in controversy for years. With officials and doctors paid a bonus for every operation, poor and little-educated men and women in rural areas are routinely rounded up and sterilised without having a chance to object. Activists say some are told they are going to health camps for operations that will improve their general wellbeing and only discover the truth after going under the knife.
...

www.guardian.co.uk...

But I guess since these people do not want to be sterilized by FORCE their opinions, or their CHOICE does not matter...

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Great post, I think you just put the entire debate to bed :-)

That's what I am trying to do!

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee

Everyday you are FORCED to pay for a ludicrously large defence budget through your taxes. You are FORCED to pay the salaries of the useless idiots in Congress and The Senate, and you are moaning about peoples public health, weird :-)

First of all, the defense budget has always been supposed to be for the defense of all Americans... Just because some people have used the Armed Forces for some agendas doesn't mean it is a bad idea to pay for the defense of a country...

Second of all, people can fire those useless idiots in Congress, but many people don't even concern themselves with what happens in Congress...

Third of all, because you think some injustices happen it doesn't mean it is okay for another freedom to be taken away... and yes forcing people to pay for abortions, or even the contraceptives of some women is taking away the freedom of EVERYONE... Of course except those who agree with these measures of forcing others to accept their views...

edit on 26-10-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

Your Defence budget is ludicrously large and it's where most of your tax dollars go, and you're whinning about being FORCED as you put it, because you don't want your government giving out free birth control.

You are not being forced to do anything, you voted for a government to take descision on your behalf, if you don't like those descisions vote for someone else, next time, it's democracy is supposed to work, you are just selfish and hiding behind, 'boo hoo hoo I'm having my freedom taken away' nonsense arguement

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


You said:

I have lived, and experienced life in Cuba and there women are not given any contraceptives... Heck most of the time the doctors have to give you aspirin, if they have any, and send you home...

This is either a lie, an exaggeration or just ignorance on your part.

Regarding family planning services, Cuba is a country which, over the last fifty
years, has made great efforts to protect its population, especially women, providing
family planning and reproductive health. With the objective of contextualizing
the program implemented in this period, some elements of historical nature are
presented in this brief account of Cuban family planning context.

The contextualization is started from issues related to abortion. In the mid-60s,
Cuban government began to implement a policy liberation of abortions performed
in health institutions under the appropriate medical conditions, establishing
free access and imposing penalties for situations where abortions are performed
outside of these conditions (UNICEF, CEDEM, ONE, MINSAP, UNFPA, 1995). In this
way, abortion was institutionalized in order to reduce maternal mortality and to
guarantee women the right to make decisions about their own reproduction

www.alapop.org...

Originally posted by riverwild
If those engaging in that type of activity are not responsible enough to protect themselves,

they should refrain from engaging in it in the first place.

And if those engaging in eating bad foods, or drinking too much alcohol, or smoking cigarettes are not responsible enough to pay for their subsequent health problems out of their own pockets, then they should refrain from those bad habits, right?

How do you know that they don't always protect themselves? Women can get pregnant on the pill, and they can get pregnant if their partner uses a condom.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Why don't you answer my questions?

"Values" my backside...
What a dishonest and cruel joke that line of thinking is.
It is valueless and moral-less.

Couple cents now to pay for this...

Saves many women having to terminate this...

(And if "human life" were really what the discussion was about - it would end here but they even put up a stink about providing the B/C pills which would lower the abortion rate. It's not about saving as many little fetus's as we can. It is a hot ticket political agenda designed to distract, inflame and divide)

Which is still better than this...

U.S. CHILD POVERTY RATE SOARS TO 20%; 35%+ FOR BLACKS & NATIVE AMERICANS… RIGHT BLAMES OBAMA

Or this...

Or this...

And maybe she is right?

Because this is really unfair to our children...

And if you are not for this...

And if you cannot bring yourself to end this life...

How can you possibly support this?

Or this?

And why is it wrong to terminate this...

But OK for them...

Or this...

To take this life?

Remember...

Originally posted by kaylaluv


Don't you get it? It is not your business what goes on between an individual and their healthcare provider. Just like it is not my business what goes on between you and your healthcare provider. I don't need to know what meds or procedures you and your doctor decide you need to have for your health and well-being, as long as it's legal. My money goes into the insurance pot that helps pay for your healthcare. I don't have the right, nor should I, to dictate what I believe are the kinds of meds or procedures you should be allowed to have. Period.

Don't you get it?... Except that millions of us are being FORCED to pay for abortion, and contraceptives...

How is it any of your business, or the business of any government to force millions of people against their will to pay for something they think is a crime, such as abortion, or for the contraceptive that some women will use?

BTW, OBAMACARE is the health insurance that is forcing you to pay for my healthcare and forcing me and millions of other people to pay for the healthcare of others... It wasn't like this before...

It is the SAME OBAMACARE that wants to FORCE people to pay for abortion of women, and their contraceptives...

BTW, should we see what form of "planned parenthood" has been done in the U.S. in the past?...

Forced sterilization worth $50,000, North Carolina panel says

January 10, 2012 | 10:07am

In the first instance of a state moving to compensate victims of forced sterilization, a gubernatorial panel in North Carolina voted Tuesday to pay victims of a state eugenics program that forcibly sterilized more than 7,500 people.

The Governor's Eugenics Compensation Task Force, established by Gov. Beverly Perdue in March, voted to pay verified victims $50,000. The payments must still be approved by the Legislature.

At least seven of 33 states that carried out eugenics programs have acknowledged or apologized for the policies, but North Carolina is the first to propose paying compensation. The state's forced-sterilization program, designed to weed out the mentally disabled, criminals and other "undesirables," was in effect from 1929 to 1974. North Carolina formally shut down its discredited Eugenics Board in 1977.
...

latimesblogs.latimes.com...

BTW, if you think the elites have stopped these eugenics programs take a look again at what they are doing in third world countries, and read what they say about how many people they think should be living in this world...

And if you don't think you will be added to the "pot" of people they want to "weed out", you are in for a rude awakening...

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee

What freedom is being taken away exactly???

Have you ever heard the freedom of CHOICE?...

So women who want an abortion have the right to CHOICE, but millions of Americans don't have a CHOICE and must be FORCED to pay for someone else's abortion?...

Have you heard about the freedom of not being FORCED to do the bidding of some people?...

That freedom...

Answer newcovenant's post.

reply to post by windword


First of all, don't even think that because a couple of people who have NEVER lived in Cuba star your thread that you are right...

Second of all I PROVED WITH REAL EVIDENCE that the BS you posted is that, BS, and propaganda from a DICATORSHIP...

Obviously people like you don't understand what a DICTATORSHIP is, or what FREEDOM is...

Anyway, stop trying to derail the thread...

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by riverwild
If those engaging in that type of activity are not responsible enough to protect themselves,

they should refrain from engaging in it in the first place.

And if those engaging in eating bad foods, or drinking too much alcohol, or smoking cigarettes are not responsible enough to pay for their subsequent health problems out of their own pockets, then they should refrain from those bad habits, right?

How do you know that they don't always protect themselves? Women can get pregnant on the pill, and they can get pregnant if their partner uses a condom.

I believe the thread is about expecting other's to pay for their contraceptives or "habits" as you stated.

The people who eat bad foods, smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol dont expect others to buy them a bottle, pack of cigs or fries.

Back on topic.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Answer newcovenant's post.

YES MAM... Oh wait... lol

Are you going to arm-wresttle me, and FORCE me into anwsering his dellusional, and out of context pictures?...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
BTW, should we see what form of "planned parenthood" has been done in the U.S. in the past?...

Forced sterilization worth $50,000, North Carolina panel says

January 10, 2012 | 10:07am

In the first instance of a state moving to compensate victims of forced sterilization, a gubernatorial panel in North Carolina voted Tuesday to pay victims of a state eugenics program that forcibly sterilized more than 7,500 people.

The Governor's Eugenics Compensation Task Force, established by Gov. Beverly Perdue in March, voted to pay verified victims $50,000. The payments must still be approved by the Legislature.

At least seven of 33 states that carried out eugenics programs have acknowledged or apologized for the policies, but North Carolina is the first to propose paying compensation. The state's forced-sterilization program, designed to weed out the mentally disabled, criminals and other "undesirables," was in effect from 1929 to 1974. North Carolina formally shut down its discredited Eugenics Board in 1977.
...

latimesblogs.latimes.com...

BTW, if you think the elites have stopped these eugenics programs take a look again at what they are doing in third world countries, and read what they say about how many people they think should be living in this world...

And if you don't think you will be added to the "pot" of people they want to "weed out", you are in for a rude awakening...

That is some serious fear mongering you should be ashamed of yourself.

Any educated person knows what happened back then. Trying to push that as our future is completely uncalled for.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Answer newcovenant's post.

YES MAM... Oh wait... lol

Are you going to arm-wresttle me, and FORCE me into anwsering his dellusional, and out of context pictures?...

Now who's dodging the question?

What does my avatar have to do with your argument? Nada.

Perhaps you've ignored newcovenant's post because you have no answer?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by kaylaluv


Don't you get it? It is not your business what goes on between an individual and their healthcare provider. Just like it is not my business what goes on between you and your healthcare provider. I don't need to know what meds or procedures you and your doctor decide you need to have for your health and well-being, as long as it's legal. My money goes into the insurance pot that helps pay for your healthcare. I don't have the right, nor should I, to dictate what I believe are the kinds of meds or procedures you should be allowed to have. Period.

Don't you get it?... Except that millions of us are being FORCED to pay for abortion, and contraceptives...

How is it any of your business, or the business of any government to force millions of people against their will to pay for something they think is a crime, such as abortion, or for the contraceptive that some women will use?

BTW, OBAMACARE is the health insurance that is forcing you to pay for my healthcare and forcing me and millions of other people to pay for the healthcare of others... It wasn't like this before...

It is the SAME OBAMACARE that wants to FORCE people to pay for abortion of women, and their contraceptives...

If you ever had insurance before, you were helping to pay for the healthcare of others. That's how insurance has always worked. When I was young, I paid insurance premiums, but never got sick, and rarely went to the doctor. My premiums helped to pay for someone who had diabetes and went to the doctor several times a year.
But in 2006, I had some health problems, and had to have surgery. Mine and other people's premiums helped to pay for that.

Yes, Obama's bill mandates that everyone above the poverty level purchase insurance. This is designed to bring the cost down for everyone. I don't mind if it brings the cost down for someone who makes bad health choices, as long as it also brings the cost down for me.

Oh, and contraception and abortion is NOT a crime. It is legal, regardless of your personal opinion on it. Your personal opinion is not justification for denying insurance payment for abortions and contraception, just like my personal opinion is not justification for denying insurance payment for bad health habits.

Originally posted by newcovenant


Why don't you answer my questions?
...

Already anwsered your question...

The mandate is not about contraceptives only... it is about FORCING to pay for abortions as well...

Not to mention that you are trying to claim that the life of a CRIMINAL/MURDERER who has committed a heinous crime, or multiple, is the same as the life of an unborn fetus/baby...

Not to mention that instead of asking for more schools to address the over populated schools, your answer is to accept abortion...

Soon enough you will be agreeing with this OTHER LIBERAL view...

Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say
Parents should be allowed to have their newborn babies killed because they are “morally irrelevant” and ending their lives is no different to abortion, a group of medical ethicists linked to Oxford University has argued.

The article, published in the Journal of Medical Ethics, says newborn babies are not “actual persons” and do not have a “moral right to life”. The academics also argue that parents should be able to have their baby killed if it turns out to be disabled when it is born.

The journal’s editor, Prof Julian Savulescu, director of the Oxford Uehiro Centre for Practical Ethics, said the article's authors had received death threats since publishing the article. He said those who made abusive and threatening posts about the study were “fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society”.

The article, entitled “After-birth abortion: Why should the baby live?”, was written by two of Prof Savulescu’s former associates, Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva.

They argued: “The moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus in the sense that both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”
...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

BTW, the above article is wrong in claiming that the paper only says it is okay to kill born babies with only health issues, I have linked the paper before and it clearly says that even those babies with no deformities or other health problems can be killed...

Do note however how the prof. in the article claims this right to kill even born babies is a "value of a LIBERAL society"...

That's how ridiculous your argument is...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee

What freedom is being taken away exactly???

Have you ever heard the freedom of CHOICE?...

So women who want an abortion have the right to CHOICE, but millions of Americans don't have a CHOICE and must be FORCED to pay for someone else's abortion?...

Have you heard about the freedom of not being FORCED to do the bidding of some people?...

That freedom...

No one is forcing you to pay for abortions.

Abortion coverage is widespread among private insurance plans -- at least half of people with private coverage have abortion coverage, according to surveys by Guttmacher and the Kaiser Family Foundation. Guttmacher found that only 13 percent of abortions are billed directly to a private insurer, though many women bill their insurers separately. An abortion at 10 weeks costs $400, though it can be far more costly later on.

3. What does it mean for women? For women who do not have health insurance, gaining subsidized coverage will mean they will be much better off overall, while still lacking abortion coverage. But there are many women who now have coverage on the individual market that is overpriced and low-quality but does cover abortion. Their subsidized coverage under the legislation will be superior in general, but they will lose their abortion coverage, unless they buy a rider.
www.washingtonpost.com...

In U.S. politics, the Hyde Amendment is a legislative provision barring the use of certain federal funds to pay for abortions. It is not a permanent law, rather it is a "rider" that, in various forms, has been routinely attached to annual appropriations bills since 1976. The Hyde Amendment applies only to funds allocated by the annual appropriations bill for the Department of Health and Human Services. It primarily affects Medicaid.

The original Hyde Amendment was passed on September 30, 1976 by the House of Representatives, by a 207-167 vote. It was named for its chief sponsor, Republican Congressman Henry Hyde of Illinois. The measure was introduced in response to the U.S. Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade decision legalizing abortion, and represented the first major legislative success by the anti-abortion movement.
en.wikipedia.org...