Forcing People to Pay for The Contraception and Abortion of Women is a Right for Women?

I would also point out that we pay for the FCC to edit television in the name of
religion, i for one would not pay for such a thing if i had a choice, also someone
else already pointed out the tax break given to religion is also a huge mistake,
while i dont really disagree that people should be forced to pay for their own
things, especially if its a choice they want to make on their own and not
have anyone else involved it is unfair to demand it as a right
and ask for outside help.

on the other hand the same applies to religion, it is unfair to ask for special
treatment in those cases as well, if we want to be honest we must be honest
all around and the truth is that religion is forcing its views on the world far
more often than the other way around. To acknowledge one and ignore the
other is cherry picking in favor of one side or the other, we must always
criticize attacks on freedom whether they come from the entitled liberals or
the entitled religions......

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Everyday you are FORCED to pay for a ludicrously large defence budget through your taxes. You are FORCED to pay the salaries of the useless idiots in Congress and The Senate, and you are moaning about peoples public health, weird :-)

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


For a woman you have some weird twisted views about womens freedoms and needs. your taxes pay for your country murdering civillians in disgusting wars wherever your masters choose. I think you need to prioritise your ranting and grow up.

basically, I believe what the law said was that all insurance providers will have to cover certain coverage, and part of that certain coverage is birth control...
I don't believe it says anything about abortion, but I may be wrong....

weather you like it or not, birth control is a part of women's health just as much as a person's blood pressure medicine, or vaccines, or any other service you maybe wish from your healthcare provider.
some preventive services, such as..cancer screenings, tests to detect bone loss, ect the gov't decided that insurance should provide for free, since they are preventive....they included birth control within that category.

what I kind of find offensive is the idea that some of yas seem to consider birth control as not as worthy a healthcare service as any other healthcare you may require....
why should you pay for birth control to be covered???
why should I have to pay for that tumor someone will have removed today??

birth control is very necessary, a matter of life and death and some cases...
bad things can happen if some women happen to get pregnant.
add to that that most religions will teach that women should just accept the husband's decision in every decision, even the one regarding weather or not to have sex,......
well.....
you don't want to pay for birth control???
guess what, I don't want to pay for drones, wars, bailouts to banks, and whole lot of other crap....
not to mention having my money swiped so that young women with four kids can have another and get out of having to work a little!!!

it's a part of women's healthcare needs....
it's just as worthy as any other healthcare need you may have..
if the gov't is gonna be taking money from the taxpayers to help others obtain those services,then by no means should be be picking and chosing, and, descriminating against one gender.
if it has value and a need it should be included...

don't like it??
well, tell ya what, quite taking my tax money and speading it around to help others with their healthcare needs!

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


it isn't my responsibility to pay for the cancer victims tumor either!!
and I have two kids that were concieved while I was using condoms plus another form of birth control....
and in this case, it sounds l ike a case close to life and death!!!

I seen single parents run their kids to doctors time and again, for runny noses!!!
you pay for that one!!!
but, you'd rather let a women bleed to death than to help her out with a birth control need??

Contraceptives should be free. Otherwise more babies will be murdered and more abortions will happen. abortions.....should not be free, but available. Should be affordable and not have to be paid ahead of time.

Condoms are free for guys too, and the pill is like $30 a month......how much do condoms cost and how many would be used in a month if the pill wasnt free? Also condoms suck. I am not convinced the pill is any less than 100% effective if its actually taken. Most statistics are skewed because people lie. Condoms can break though.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by smyleegrl
I understand your political point, but there's a practical one here as well.

Contraceptive costs what, thirty bucks a month? Whereas a child born into poverty and living on welfare costs a lot more.

Personally, I think we should hand out prophylactics like candy.

It isn't just a political point, it is a freedom point as well. It is my right to not accept being forced to pay for what some people believe is their right.

Whether another child is born into poverty it is the responsibility of the parents, it is not my responsibility, and it shouldn't be forced on me, and millions of other Americans.

We are in the 21st century, everyone knows that when a man and a woman are having sex during the time frame that the woman can have children, there is a high risk for her to get pregnant.

There are also organizations which are "pro-choice" who have been paying for contraceptives for other women.

If you want free contraceptives for other women then make a charity that gathers DONATIONS from people who agree with this view, instead of FORCING every American to pay for contraceptives and abortions.

edit on 25-10-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

You are already paying for the irresponsibility of some people if you are paying taxes....welfare.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Feltrick
Well, for some women "the pill" is used for health reasons, not just as a contraception.

Viagra is covered by most, if not all, health insurers. Why am I paying for a ninety year old to get his rocks off? Seems if we cover one, we should cover all.

There is a big difference, those old men have been paying to social security for decades, and it is this money that they paid and which has gathered interest which is being used to pay for his viagra.

There is no mandate that specifically FORCES every American pay for the viagra of some older men...

edit on 25-10-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

Actually, many young men are on Viagra due to porn addiction. Research the effects of porn addiction on young men...it's very disturbing.

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog

For all the experience you have had in your lifetime and places you've traveled...have you ever experienced an unwanted pregnancy? You yourself carrying a baby?

First of all I am a man... and my girlfriend and I have had sex, and continue to have and but we always make sure we are protected. I have been in several relationships, and even been married. In my 40 years of life experience never have I made my partner pregnant unless we wanted to, and yes we are able to have children we just choose not to at this time.

Have you ever experience what millions of couples experience not being able to conceive a child?...

How about puting the child you don't want for adoption instead of resorting to murdering the fetus?

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog

The entire thread? Where have you brought up the responsibility of men beyond letting tax paying men get Viagra (presumably to be used to have sex which is the process that makes babies)? You said that it was "the choices of women" to get pregnant without ever mentioning the choice of the men who also participated.

Oh please learn reading comprehension please if you want to try to discuss complex topics...

I clearly told a member that it was his responsibility as well if his girlfriend got pregnant... Or do you not understand that statement?...

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
You are also stating that providing contraceptives and abortions to women only benefit women and thus, is a discriminatory tax against men. Do men not benefit as well from contraceptives/abortions because it saves them from having to provide support to the children they may not have intended to have? Or paying the taxes that go into the social systems to provide for "welfare" children?

Again, learn some reading comprehension please... I wrote that no American should be responsible for paying for the abortion or contraceptives that women use... I didn't say, and that does not imply that I think it only benefits women...

You are puting words in my mouth, and trying to claim I wrote things which I never wrote...

I don't like having the money I put in going towards healthcare costs of people who eat bad foods, take drugs, drink booze, or smoke cigarettes. I think those things are awful, so why should I pay for their wrong choices? Do I have the right as an employer to deny coverage to those kinds of people? Do those people deserve healthcare insurance to help pay for their health problems as a result of the nasty stuff they (of their own choice) put in their bodies?

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee

Everyday you are FORCED to pay for a ludicrously large defence budget through your taxes. You are FORCED to pay the salaries of the useless idiots in Congress and The Senate, and you are moaning about peoples public health, weird :-)

First of all, the defense budget has always been supposed to be for the defense of all Americans... Just because some people have used the Armed Forces for some agendas doesn't mean it is a bad idea to pay for the defense of a country...

Second of all, people can fire those useless idiots in Congress, but many people don't even concern themselves with what happens in Congress...

Third of all, because you think some injustices happen it doesn't mean it is okay for another freedom to be taken away... and yes forcing people to pay for abortions, or even the contraceptives of some women is taking away the freedom of EVERYONE... Of course except those who agree with these measures of forcing others to accept their views...

I think you make a compelling argument for your view on contraceptives. I also feel that you might be obsessing about a small thing in a BIG bag of #@!^.

The reason you are up in arms about this is because you have been talking to other "Pro-Lifers" after church and now you are upset at your government because they are not holding YOUR values as sacred like you do.

You may not like to hear this, but abortion and contraceptives were directly correlated to the drop in crime over the past 20 years! I hear all the time of the pro-lifer movement saying a life begins at the time of fertilization of the egg. I disagree, but whatever.

My point is that you cannot argue that you would take care of all the unwanted children without involving government! You had your chance for over 200 years and it never happened. Now women have a choice when they make a mistake or get raped. You want to take that away because of your religious views and that is wrong.

Go to Africa for a week. Live in Haiti in camps for a week. Visit other nations who do not have contraception and see what it looks like. You might have a change of heart when you see all the unwanted children turned into animals to survive.

Originally posted by Elvis Hendrix

For a woman you have some weird twisted views about womens freedoms and needs. your taxes pay for your country murdering civillians in disgusting wars wherever your masters choose. I think you need to prioritise your ranting and grow up.

First of all, stop assuming so much... I am a man, not a woman...

Second of all, the one that needs to grow up is you. Yes there are people who disagree with you in case you dind't know...

Third of all, I have already said it many times, just because YOU think some injustices are happening doesn't make it alright for another freedom to be taken away...

Fourth of all, you and others like you should learn the meaning of "personal responsibility"...

Once people re-learn, and start valuing again "personal responsibility", as well as individual freedom the world might get closer to being better...

And btw, how is it forcing others to do your bidding without regards to their views and opinions any different than your views on how "our masters" use the military to do their bidding without regards for other people's views and opinions?... THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE...

You and what you call "our masters" (they are no masters of mine) are forcing, or want to force, people to do your bidding in the same manner...

reply to post by phroziac


Since you are on it lets make all houses free, all cars free, everything free... People shouldn't expect to be paid, they should also work for free, and if you don't agree with this then you should be forced to work for free...

Originally posted by Hope4peace

Actually, many young men are on Viagra due to porn addiction. Research the effects of porn addiction on young men...it's very disturbing.

And many young people are addicted to the internet... How is this relevant to the topic being discussed?...

Forcing People to Pay for The Contraception and Abortion of Women is a Right for Women?

As opposed to what? Forcing people to pay for life support for a 90-year old comatose grandma that has no chance of recovery. I don't want to pay for that...you obviously don't want to pay for contraception and abortion....it balances out in the end. This is a ridiculous argument....healthcare is healthcare, and religion has no place in it. Don't like a medical procedure? Then don't get that medical procedure...but keep you nose out of others business.

reply to post by dawnstar


First of all, you have to learn the difference between FORCING people to do what a few want, and VOLUNTERING/DONATING money out of free will and FREE CHOICE...

I don't believe that people should be forced to pay for the healthcare of others. If people want to help pay for the healthcare of some people who might not be able to afford it, then it should be a CHOICE and not a MANDATE...

Third of all, there is a clause that mandates for all Americans to pay a premium for abortions whether you agree with this or not...

There are even SOME Democrats who have tried to fight this.

Former Congressman Bart Stupak admits a compromise he made with Barack Obama to pass the Affordable Care Act is invalidated by HHS's controversial mandate for taxpayer-funded contraception, including abortion-inducing drugs.

Today Breeanne Howe of RedState and I attended a Democrats For Life panel during the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, North Carolina. An attendee stood up and asked Bart Stupak and a panel of pro-life if the HHS contraception mandate has put them in a difficult position.

Stupak responded, “I am perplexed and disappointed that, having negotiated the Executive Order with the President, not only does the HHS mandate violate the Executive Order but it also violates statutory law."
...
The final holdout was Stupak, a pro-life Democrat from Michigan’s 1st District. He and a group of six pro-life Democrats united in their opposition to the bill and its violation of the Hyde Amendment, which prevented the public funding of abortion and protected the conscience clause. Theirs was a contentious fight that went on for days, while tens of thousands of Tea Party protesters rallied on the west lawn of the Capitol in opposition.

Late that Sunday afternoon, Stupak held a presser and announced that a deal had been made. President Obama would sign an Executive Order protecting the Hyde Amendment, preventing the public funding of abortion and the conscience clause. Critics watching the deal perceived the move as a blatant hustle for votes, and Stupak was labeled a sell-out. He was replaced by Tea Party candidate Dan Benishek in November.

Conservatives cautioned that the Executive Order was cheap political cover that could just as easily be undone by the President.

It took him a few years, but apparently Stupak has come to that realization as well.
...

www.breitbart.com...

BTW, i guess according to your logic, and the logic of leftwingers posting in this thread the fact that some injustices happen in the world is excuse enough for other injustices to be allowed to exist...

We can take that a step further and say that because there are some crimes that occur we should allow all crime to occur as well... Heck some of it happens right?...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I find very Funny how religious organizations dare to complain about birth control and forcing people into paying for it the truth is that we are already been forced by entitlement programs and social services to pay with our taxes for the welfare of poor unwed mother's children, so what is the difference? money spend to avoid the growth of more welfare recipients or kissing the arses of self righteous religious groups, either way we tax payer will pay

Get over it people.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by dawnstar

 

First of all, you have to learn the difference between FORCING people to do what a few want, and VOLUNTERING/DONATING money out of free will and FREE CHOICE...

I don't believe that people should be forced to pay for the healthcare of others. If people want to help pay for the healthcare of some people who might not be able to afford it, then it should be a CHOICE and not a MANDATE...

Third of all, there is a clause that mandates for all Americans to pay a premium for abortions whether you agree with this or not...

There are even SOME Democrats who have tried to fight this.

Former Congressman Bart Stupak admits a compromise he made with Barack Obama to pass the Affordable Care Act is invalidated by HHS's controversial mandate for taxpayer-funded contraception, including abortion-inducing drugs.

Today Breeanne Howe of RedState and I attended a Democrats For Life panel during the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, North Carolina. An attendee stood up and asked Bart Stupak and a panel of pro-life if the HHS contraception mandate has put them in a difficult position.

Stupak responded, “I am perplexed and disappointed that, having negotiated the Executive Order with the President, not only does the HHS mandate violate the Executive Order but it also violates statutory law."
...
The final holdout was Stupak, a pro-life Democrat from Michigan’s 1st District. He and a group of six pro-life Democrats united in their opposition to the bill and its violation of the Hyde Amendment, which prevented the public funding of abortion and protected the conscience clause. Theirs was a contentious fight that went on for days, while tens of thousands of Tea Party protesters rallied on the west lawn of the Capitol in opposition.

Late that Sunday afternoon, Stupak held a presser and announced that a deal had been made. President Obama would sign an Executive Order protecting the Hyde Amendment, preventing the public funding of abortion and the conscience clause. Critics watching the deal perceived the move as a blatant hustle for votes, and Stupak was labeled a sell-out. He was replaced by Tea Party candidate Dan Benishek in November.

Conservatives cautioned that the Executive Order was cheap political cover that could just as easily be undone by the President.

It took him a few years, but apparently Stupak has come to that realization as well.
...

www.breitbart.com...

BTW, i guess according to your logic, and the logic of leftwingers posting in this thread the fact that some injustices happen in the world is excuse enough for other injustices to be allowed to exist...

We can take that a step further and say that because there are some crimes that occur we should allow all crime to occur as well... Heck some of it happens right?...

Do you also oppose Medicare?

I hope that if you get into a car accident and need medical assistance, you don't call an ambulance and paramedics, that we all pay for, whether we use them or not. Or, heaven forbid your home should catch fire, and you need tax payer supported firemen.

If you come to my little to town, please don't use the roads, as my community's tax dollars paid for them, not yours.

This girlfriend of yours, that you have sex with, does she have a job? Does that job offer health insurance as part of her employment pack benefits? If so, her birth control is now covered under her own insurance. How does that effect your rights?