Forcing People to Pay for The Contraception and Abortion of Women is a Right for Women?

Originally posted by howmuch4another

applause

This is the answer no question about it. Commitment is so much more effective than compliance.

Thank you, if more people realized and understood this, maybe we wouldn't be finding ourselves with yet another right being taken away.

BTW, I LOVE how some members in here are trying to use the wars started by Bush as an excuse to accept these Obama mandates when Obama has used the military to kill an American citizen with a drone yet this point is not being raised by the "anti-war crowd...

I guess it is OKAY for Obama to use the military to not only continue, and expand the war on terror, but to kill Americans in U.S. soil, and to implement policies like "indefinite detention" of Americans who have not committed any crimes but "because of their views" they "might" commit a crime sometime in the future...

Talk about double standars...

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread with other topics whether or not they were done by Obama. The topic being discussed is this imaginary and misguided view some people have that they think it is alright to force their views on contraceptives and abortion of ALL Americans...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Worked in a pharmacy for ten years. Medicare doesn't pay for Viagra. Private insurance does, however. The same companies that won't pay for female birth control will pay for Viagra.

It is the same thing, those men paid, and are paying the private insurance for what they need. All Americans are not forced to pay for the viagra of older men.

And during that same time, those same private insurances that paid for Viagra did not pay for birth control. The women paid for their private insurance, so by your own logic....

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

It isn't just a political point, it is a freedom point as well. It is my right to not accept being forced to pay for what some people believe is their right.

My taxes paid for Bush's wars.

My taxes supplement The Boy Scouts - - which are anti-gay.

Doesn't compare to taxes for healthy women - - no unwanted children - etc. This helps everyone.

You also pay for public transportation, schools, roads... even if you don't use them.
The nerve of the Government to charge us for these things

I demand free condoms. If women do not have to pay for contraceptives then I should be able to pick up a box of condoms for free. It is discrimination and racist. Give me condoms or give me death.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


So lets think about this , free birth control or pay for all the families with kids on welfare ! Sounds cheaper to prevent it . What do I know ? Basic math maybe , it's called the lesser of two evil's . It also cuts down on crime when you don't have unwanted children grow up too be criminals . And that is a proven fact on the crime thing .

reply to post by rgzing


Places do give out free condoms. Like clinics and colleges/universities. They handed out over 100,000 condoms to athletes during the Olympics (Vancouver ran out and had to order more).

The hypocrisy is full blown and will soon become tyranny.

The left always talks about civil rights, blah blah blah...They then create a mob and crucify anyone who doesn't agree. They are an angry mob and they totally dont understand how they are being played, because they lack basic morals and principals.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


My general view on the subject is that contraception should only be subsidized by the state if there is a demographics benefit in preventing pregnancies and doing a subsidization of contraception without sexual education and family planing makes no sense.

The other issue is in regards to condoms (and other forms of contraception) that serves also a prophylactic function against sexual transmitted diseases, this should be always subsidized in the same level as the state provides citizens access to sexual education.

If the availability of state subsidized contraception, sexual education and family planning is comprehensive, abortion should not be subsidized in cases that results from irresponsibility of the women, otherwise it should but with safeguards against abuse (these limits should also take in consideration the demands for adoption and state demographics necessities).

Originally posted by smyleegrl
I understand your political point, but there's a practical one here as well.

Contraceptive costs what, thirty bucks a month? Whereas a child born into poverty and living on welfare costs a lot more.

Personally, I think we should hand out prophylactics like candy.

They have for some time been giving away free condoms and the like based on means testing.

For those that dont really need "sexfare" they can spring. Its one thing to talk about feeding someone. Besides we are talking about a wide open free abortion and "sexfare" for all women. We are not talking about poverty cases here.

If I have to choose between paying for birth control or paying for unwanted kids for 18 years I'd prefer to bury women in birth control.

JC, pro-lifers, use your damn heads.

Originally posted by rgzing

I demand free condoms. If women do not have to pay for contraceptives then I should be able to pick up a box of condoms for free. It is discrimination and racist. Give me condoms or give me death.

edit on 25-10-2012 by rgzing because: (no reason given)

Calm down. You can go to the health department and they will give you a whole bag of them. It’s nothing new.

I needed that laugh.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Feltrick
Well, for some women "the pill" is used for health reasons, not just as a contraception.

Viagra is covered by most, if not all, health insurers. Why am I paying for a ninety year old to get his rocks off? Seems if we cover one, we should cover all.

There is a big difference, those old men have been paying to social security for decades, and it is this money that they paid and which has gathered interest which is being used to pay for his viagra.

There is no mandate that specifically FORCES every American pay for the viagra of some older men...

edit on 25-10-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

There is no mandate because as long as the doctor says it's for medical reasons Viagra is covered. This option is not available for women on Medicare. These guys paid into the system that is true but women pay into that system also. I have yet to hear anyone complain about Viagra. This is a classic double standard.

Erections Get Insurance; Why Not the Pill?

abcnews.go.com...

Originally posted by Grimpachi

I never said the wars however I personally do not like how religious organizations do not have to pay taxes and the federal government helps subsidize their hospitals. That would be on my list.

First of all, those hospitals give jobs to Americans of ALL religious convinctions and beliefs, so Americans of all religious convinctions and beliefs benefit from such hospitals.

Second of all, I agree that every American shouldn't be paying for these hospitals. There should also be some sort of donation where Americans who can pay, and want to pay for these hospitals can do so, but then it is the right of these hospitals to hire ONLY people of those particular religious beliefs.

Third of all, neither children, nor anyone else, are being killed en mass in these hospitals with the funding from the Federal government...

Originally posted by Grimpachi
On the subject of freedoms we will have to disagree because I personal do not feel anyone’s freedom has been breached especially in how the law was written. If they feel it is a religious thing then I don’t see how this will affect them after all those religious people would never take advantage of the program in which case no one is paying a dime.

You still don't seem to understand... only some of those people who HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PAY FOR LAWYERS AND THE FEES OF THE COURT have been able to stop this mandate being force ON THEM...

What about the MILLIONS of other Americans who do not have the money to pay for lawyers and court fees, and who do not agree with being FORCED to pay for contraceptives, and abortions?...

You want to claim the right of MILLIONS of Americans are not being breached by this mandate?...

Originally posted by letseeit7
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

So lets think about this , free birth control or pay for all the families with kids on welfare ! Sounds cheaper to prevent it . What do I know ? Basic math maybe , it's called the lesser of two evil's . It also cuts down on crime when you don't have unwanted children grow up too be criminals . And that is a proven fact on the crime thing .

You points are good but they are elementary. The fact is that state and feds have for a good while now made it a matter of profit for women to have kids outside of their means. Talking about women that have kids for no other reason that to jump on the gravy train. Or men that will not marry their babies mom so the state can pick up the cost and he can live with her under the radar.

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl
..
There is no mandate because as long as the doctor says it's for medical reasons Viagra is covered. This option is not available for women on Medicare. These guys paid into the system that is true but women pay into that system also. I have yet to hear anyone complain about Viagra. This is a classic double standard.

Is viagra being used to kill babies?

You might disagree with my opinion that abortions are killing babies, but that is YOUR opinion, and a misguided one.

You might want to claim "this is only a religious belief", but I don't follow any particular religion. In fact, I haven't even been to church in ages. It is not a religious belief, it is a moral, and logical belief.

You might want to claim that a human fetus is not a developed person, but neither are babies that have been born and little children...

As humans we are developing ALL OF OUR LIVES, and as such we are a constantly evolving beings, and so are human fetuses.

Originally posted by Grimpachi

Calm down.

You can go to the health department and they will give you a whole bag of them. It’s nothing new.

I needed that laugh.

A whole bag of them which has been paid from donations, there is no mandate that forces people to pay for condoms... And if there are institutions using tax payer dollars to pay for condoms, then these people should be held accountable for breaking the law...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Well I am glad we can agree on one thing but I am curious because you kind of half justified money going to those organizations because they create jobs but doesn’t that also make them our employees then? This could start a whole other debate over whether or not government can create jobs or not but I don’t want to derail the thread.

Maybe I am just overthinking this.

As for this infringing on personal freedom we will just have to agree to disagree. As for individuals not being able to afford suing the government it does make it tough I think it would be about as hard as individuals suing companies or Churches. Not impossible just hard.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl
..
There is no mandate because as long as the doctor says it's for medical reasons Viagra is covered. This option is not available for women on Medicare. These guys paid into the system that is true but women pay into that system also. I have yet to hear anyone complain about Viagra. This is a classic double standard.

Is viagra being used to kill babies?

You might disagree with my opinion that abortions are killing babies, but that is YOUR opinion, and a misguided one.

You might want to claim "this is only a religious belief", but I don't follow any particular religion. In fact, I haven't even been to church in ages. It is not a religious belief, it is a moral, and logical belief.

You might want to claim that a human fetus is not a developed person, but neither are babies that have been born and little children...

As humans we are developing ALL OF OUR LIVES, and as such we are a constantly evolving beings, and so are human fetuses.

Whether I disagree with you or not it is still your opinion, your belief. Religious or not what right do you have to decide over another?

I really think men need to step up and demand coverage for contraceptives. There is no excuse for double standards. It's the responsible thing to do.