Forcing People to Pay for The Contraception and Abortion of Women is a Right for Women?

Originally posted by dawnstar
...
why is it that if I happen to go under financially and lose my house, I need to be educated as far as "personal responsibility", but the rich and famous can walk away from multimillion dollar real estate deals and it's "strategic planning"????

What the hell does that have to do with this thread?... First of all, the rich are not the only ones being FORCED to do the bidding of the few... ALL of us, more so if you can't pay for court fees and a lawyer, are the ones who will be FORCED to pay for the abortion and contraception of other women which shouldn't happen in what is supposed to be a darn FREE country... And don't give me that stupid excuse that "other injustices are happening so it is okay for this one to occur"... Because if you think some injustices are happening it doesn't mean it is okay for others to occur...

I am guessing if you see a kid being bullied right in front of you, you will walk away maybe because you were bullied as a kid and "it is okay for it to happen because it has happened in the past and will continue to happen"...

Originally posted by rockhndr

Please use your head...so by your thought process if a person starts an insurance policy on Nov.15 in the amount of the first premium being let's say ummm, $237.00....then on Nov. 18 you hurt yourself and need $3000.00 in hospital fees...the person will only get THEIR $237.00 worth????????? Uggghhhh, I give up...

I am TRULY trying to understand your thinking...but you are just making it impossible!!!

Of course you don't get it because your reading comprehension is extremely lacking, and your narrow view does not allow you to understand what others with a different view, and knowledge have to say...

If YOU don't pay for an insurance, YOU don't get insured by it... Only those people who PAY for that insurance are covered by it...

I already explained that insurance companies do the SAME THING banks do... The money you pay them, they invest in something else to make more money, such as government bonds, and from that money is how you get paid your benefits, IF YOU PAID FOR THAT INSURANCE...

Did I write, ANYWHERE, that they count penny by penny what you paid and only give you benefits up to what you paid?... NO... SHOW ME WHERE I WROTE WHAT YOU CLAIM I WROTE...

...
Here are a few things you should know about insurers’ investments:
Contrary to what some people think, insurers have never had a year when they lost money on investments. Some years are better than others, but the industry has always generated positive investment returns.
Insurers are among the most careful investors in the country. On average, approximately three quarters of their investments are in government bonds.
In order to make sure that insurers are able to pay claims, the federal government monitors the industry’s investments to make certain that they are low-risk.
Insurers strive to maintain a portfolio that allows for quick liquidation of investments to pay claims.
...

www.ibc.ca...

BTW, the above is what happens with insurance companies in Canada, in the U.S. almost the same happens but with some differences.

You are laughing at your own ignorance, and your inability to understand others because of YOUR NARROW VIEWS...

Learn to TRY to understand people who have a DIFFERENT point of view, and more knowledge than you...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

you would be wrong in that guess!!!!

we're just gonna have to agree to disagree I guess, since you keep tending to twist what I am trying to say....

I still don't see how the gov't is forcing you or anyone else to pay for someone else's abortions by this law...

yes, it allows insurance plans on it's exchange that cover abortion, but then it lays out that an additional fee must be charged for that coverage and that fee to be separate from other funds and to be used to cover abortions.....a fee that as far as I know, the gov't doesn't set..it lets the insurance companies set it.. Family planning is set up the same way by the way, their funding is separate, and tax money is not used for abortion there either, but try telling that to the anti-abortion group...
then when you go onto the exchange, you are guarenteed at least one plan that does not cover abortion....
there may be many more, but they are required to have at least one...


I've spent a good part of the morning going from site to site and well, this is the conclusion I came to, although I got to admit there's a wide difference as to what is being said that seems to be connected to which viewpoint the people writing the article chooses to support. so in fact, since the truth is covered by two political drives trying so hard to advance their agenda, more than likely, we will all have to wait and see just what it says when it happens...
I am not so concerned regarding abortion, except for those cases where the mom's ability to function adequately to meet her responsibilities, or her health, or life is in question. that is my main concern as far as abortion goes...

but, you tend to tie that in with birth control in general, the pill, ect...
and I am sorry, but I stand by what I said...
it is just as valid a part of healthcare as any other treatment and medication out there...
and should be covered by insurance.

you never did answer my question...
my insurance policy, which me and my boss pay for, covers birth control now...
so, do you have a problem with that, after all, I am sure there are some who have strong feelings on the subject being financially forced into pitching into that pool???

the only answer to this problem is by the way....
to bring the cost of healthcare down to the point where the average person can afford their own healthcare without the gov't assistance or the insurance companies....
and then try to fill in the gaps left someway.
as long as we are in a society where we all need the assistance of others to meet our own "personal responsibility" there are gonna be complaints about who should, who shouldn't be covered and what they should or shouldn't be covered for. and in the end we all lose some of our freedoms...the patient, the doctor, the average citizen on the street........

and where in hades name do you get the idea that only the "rich" are being force to do the bidding???
I am not rich, my family's income doesn't even meet that 50% mean income level....
We pay federal taxes, so much so that I have to have an additional $40 taken out just to make sure that we didn't owe taxes at the end of the year...
then we pay state taxes, sales taxes, and oh ya, those nice "sin taxes" that keep getting raised to that some person earning $80,000 or so thousand dollars per year can get subsidized healthcare for their kids!! my kids had a mom who couldn't even get out of bed and walk around for awhile, but we were paying for kid's healthcare!! and in some cases, their parents!! but we couldn't come up with the down payment the surgeon wanted to the ankle could be set that I could walk again!!!
ya, only the rich have to sacrifice my arse!!
tell me another story, oh great one!
as far as bullying goes...
ya it was really, really fun watching my kids get bullied by the neighbors kids, many of whom were on welfare because oh, "they were so poor, so and so's mother had to give them their kid's hand me downs!!

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by phroziac
What the hell dude? Condoms are free too, should they not be? Theyre almost a dollar a pie e unless you buy in bulk. If you do it twice a day, that birth control you moan about is cheaper. Ive paid for it before, its about 30 a month.


Have you seen what happens to unwanted children? hmmm.... Its all for the children.

... Why should condoms be free?... Maybe next it should be video games as well huh?... They will stop teenagers from having too much sex so we ALL should pay for teenagers to have free video games...

edit on 4-11-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

I told you why and will not tell you again. Hell of a better idea than giving our tax money to bank of america

Originally posted by dawnstar
...
it's amazing how one part of the law, a part that was designed to ensure that insurance plans that do cover abortions not use federal money, can be twisted to say that they do the complete opposite!!!

but...continue on....

It's amazing how you ignored the fact that I gave excerpts, and a link to the story of a DEMOCRAT whose signature, among others, helped for Obamacare to be implemented into law because he also thought the same than you, and then after it was signed into law he found out that the oposite to the promises made by Obama is what is actually happening...

Since the money is being paid to, and by PRIVATE INSURANCES then the money is not being used directly by the Feds, hence the money is to be used to pay for abortions since the Feds are not paying for it directly...

But go ahead and continue on even thou your arguments have been fully debunked...

Originally posted by phroziac
I told you why and will not tell you again. Hell of a better idea than giving our tax money to bank of america

What the heck does Bank of America have to do with Americans being FORCED to pay for abortions and contraceptives of other women?... YOU might agree with it, but MILLIONS of Americans DO NOT AGREE... Yet you see it as okay to FORCE millions of Americans to do your will?.. You are THE SAME as Bank of America trying to impose your will instead of accepting that others have a different view than you and have RIGHTS...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by phroziac
I told you why and will not tell you again. Hell of a better idea than giving our tax money to bank of america

What the heck does Bank of America have to do with Americans being FORCED to pay for abortions and contraceptives of other women?... YOU might agree with it, but MILLIONS of Americans DO NOT AGREE... Yet you see it as okay to FORCE millions of Americans to do your will?.. You are THE SAME as Bank of America trying to impose your will instead of accepting that others have a different view than you and have RIGHTS...

edit on 4-11-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

I did not say anyone should pay for an abortion. Contraceptives are not abortions. Do you even read posts before you reply to them? We gave millions to b of a so they could get their bonuses. Condoms and pills cost nowhere near that much.

Im not going to waste my time with you

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


The problem is the people advocating this as a "right" don't know what a "right" is.

A "right" comes from God, or nature, whatever your beliefs are. You have a right to speak your mind, to assemble, to write whatever you want, to pursue your own path in life. Those are not given to you by another man.

Let's say you have a "right" to Healthcare period. Then it would be another man's obligation to provide that right to you. Who is obligated to you?
And let's suppose those who are obligated to provide those "rights" to you decide they no longer wants to be obligated and simply want to be the recipients of their "right" to healthcare, then who's left to provide that right to you?

You may still believe it would be a good thing to have the things you believe are rights but if they are provided by another man or woman then they are not "rights," they are benefits and someone has to provide them. If you choose to rely on another human being then that is your choice. Don't cry when those benefits become to much for the ones you trusted to provide them.

Unless you're ok with everyone being poor because eventually those "rights" that politicians love to push will leave everyone with nothing!

for example: the USSR, Greece and soon the rest of Europe.

nobody is forcing you to pay for abortions. once you give your tax money to the government you no longer have any say in how it is being spent.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

Where did I say it is a recent phenomenon?...

What people, including you, should realize that what we really need to teach to the young generations is PERSONAL RESPOSIBILITY, and they are not going to learn this when the government wants to provide everything free for them so they can become dependent of the government...

Alright, so we both can agree that teenagers have sex and have been having sex for many generations but our approach to teaching them responsibility also has not changed which is typically: ALL SEX RESULTS IN PREGNANCY SO DON'T HAVE SEX. That doesn't stop them from doing it. Add another layer: ALL SEX RESULTS IN AIDS or STIs. IF YOU HAVE SEX YOU WILL DIE. Well, they're still doing it and now we are starting to see a return in STIs that were previously on the decline (like syphilis) and the highest percentage of new HIV infections are the youth at 39% between the ages of 13 and 29.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

No, that is not the same logic at all. You don't get a say in where your tax money goes. Or to pick an choose. Your precious freedom comes with a price, and sometimes in a free society that price is that you don't always get to have your own selfish little way. It's either that or anarchy and no taxes and no services at all. this whole argument is tedious. And I'm almost sure you're missing the irony and the sarcasm because that doesn't permeate well through blinders.

Originally posted by phroziac

I did not say anyone should pay for an abortion. Contraceptives are not abortions. Do you even read posts before you reply to them? We gave millions to b of a so they could get their bonuses. Condoms and pills cost nowhere near that much.

Im not going to waste my time with you

And I was against giving that money to BoA or any other bailout... but that STILL has nothing to do with being forced to pay for abortions and contraceptions of those women who want to...

BTW, no one is forcing you to stay in the thread, so laters...

Originally posted by MastaShake
nobody is forcing you to pay for abortions. once you give your tax money to the government you no longer have any say in how it is being spent.

First of all, yes we do have a say in how our money should be spent, and this is not a tax... Obamacare makes insurance companies charge people $1 dollar for abortions... BTW, the $1 is not the issue, it could be 1 cent and I would still have an issue as well as millions of Americans... This money is being used to MURDER innocent babies/human fetus... And AGAIN, because kids die in wars is no excuse to allow for this... That is one of the lamest, stupidest excuse I have read from some members...

I am not trying to ban abortions, if a woman, and her boyfriend or husband want to do it IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY... NO ON ELSE should be FORCED to pay for the abortion a couple, or a woman wants...

I would LOVE to see the backlash from leftwingers if they ALL were FORCED to pay for the death penalty through their private insurance...

BTW, as per Obamacare insurance companies cannot tell you if they are charging you this...

Originally posted by ~Lucidity

No, that is not the same logic at all. You don't get a say in where your tax money goes. Or to pick an choose. Your precious freedom comes with a price, and sometimes in a free society that price is that you don't always get to have your own selfish little way. It's either that or anarchy and no taxes and no services at all. this whole argument is tedious. And I'm almost sure you're missing the irony and the sarcasm because that doesn't permeate well through blinders.

The ones who want to get away with "their selfish little ways" are those like YOU who don't care that millions of people disagree with you on abortion, and don't want to be FORCED to pay for the murder of babies/human fetus or for the contraception of those women who want it...

The price of freedom has never been to be FORCED to pay for abortions...

You don't want to see it as murdering babies, that's fine, it is on you and your decision... But don't FORCE millions of people who do not see it like you to pay for abortions...

if you chose a policy that covers abortions, the insurance companies have to charge you an additional fee for that coverage, it could be $1 or it could be $100, the price is not set by the gov't
the exchanges are required to have at least one offer that does not cover abortions, my guess is that there will be more than one...probably most...
and from there well, people are gonna have to read the details of the policies, ask the right questions if they have to, read the fine print....
quite frankly, for a society that allowed the fraud called robosigners to go on for as long as it did, and still so many still justify it...
well, with any contract...
READ THE DETAILS!!! if the policy says it covers abortions, well, then you will be charged a little extra for it..

if the ones who are setting up these exchanges are smart, they will make sure that it's obvious which one do or don't.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


My selfish little ways? And where did I ever state my position on abortion that appears to have set you off on your merry little jog of judging me and for these millions to disagree with?

It's okay though...this concept and discussion rises far above the level you appear to be stuck at,