FukuGate: We've been conned

reply to post by WoodSpirit

I pretty much have a basic understanding how it all works, but my questions still stands, where is the tangeable proof that there are increased and dangerous levels of dangerous particles in locations worldwide.

Tangible proof by internet doesn't exist. I saw a show once when I was a kid where a "professor" was teaching a classroom of children about geiger counters. He said that when he was a kid, "background" was one click per minute. This was before WWII and the bombs dropped on Japan. Since then there have been advancements in nuclear medicine, failed satellites, a zillion bomb tests, power plant "accidents". All this tends to increase the background levels.

If you know where to find the official government site that tells us what background is supposed to be... let me know. There is Enviroreporter.com in Los Angeles, he monitors 24/7 and shows graphs. That is only good for his detector though. All detectors come with instructions and they will tell you to "calibrate" your unit to your local environment. Other than that, I can't give you "proof" of anything. Like you I am waiting to see what turns up. Where did all that stuff that came from the plants go? It has to be out there somewhere. It just doesn't "disappear". Sadly, our government has kept us uninformed.

I understand that the situation at Fuku is FUBAR, I am just waiting for a solid confirmation that we should all be very worried worldwide.

Stay tuned. It will take years for the cancers to manifest around the world. Perhaps tracking that data will yield more information. Even then, how do you know if the cancer everyone is getting now came from Fuku, PCB's, lead or mercury? Theres everyone's (on here) assertions that chemtrails, fluoride GM foods and God knows what are all responsible. I smoked cigarettes for 35 years, and that didn't even kill me (yet).

Also, I was in a discussion with Littleblackeagle about his claims that his 6-8 times background level radiation measurements where proof of a health risk.

You must agree that his readings are irrelevant in this health risk discussion, they mean nothing.

I wasn't part of that. I don't know what he is referring to. Thanks for talking to me about it. I refreshed some of my memory on the subject.

Not sure if this video has been posted in this thread or not. I have followed this thread, but not read every single post, but most of them. However, If it has been posted in another thread other than this one before, I could care less about that because the more it is viewed the better off the Japanese people will be.

So with that being said, any of you crybaby yes men, robotic puppets who spend your time calling out posters for posting something that has already been posted, even years ago, can simply pound sand or watch paint dry for all I care.

To be clear, This is almost an hour long video of a meeting from back in November of 2011 where citizens of the surrounding area of Fukushima demanded testing from The Government who they believe are protecting TEPCO. So whiners, don't watch it if you don't have the time or care enough about the subject, cause you're not getting a snack, Juice, or a sit down and a short story here. LMAO!

Seriously though, Now that I got those sheoplized tools updated on the program, here is the video my friends. Have a great night, and go Giants! Even though I am an A's fan. Going out for some great Cuban food here pretty soon, so don't get too excited. ~$heopleNation

Originally posted by moniesisfun
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

I'm done trying to deal with a lying psychopath.
The good members here are free to see your shenanigans for what they are.
Half truths, manipulations, and outright lies.
People like you should be locked up permanently.

Greetings:

We would have been back sooner to cover a few bases for the Google-challenged, but IRL demanded attention as Sandy draws near.

While we certainly appreciate forum participation and spirited conversation, we question your diatribe regarding esteemed member OmegaLogos and ask you to stand down on your present line of attack and address the situation - the blatant cover-up of the nuking of America.

The good members here are free to see your shenanigans for what they are...
People like you should be locked up permanently.

And we see what you are about.

Attacking members on a personal basis is indicative of a personal problem.

Shame on you.

How about getting back to the issue at hand and prove that there is no amount of radiation in the recent grape harvest and the subsequent Napa Valley wine?

tfw

reply to post by thorfourwinds


Esteemed member?

Give me a break.

He was obviously lying and manipulating non-stop.

The guy is a psychopath, and openly admitted it in this forum a couple of years ago.

There is reason for knowing who is a psychopath and not. If you fail to realize this, you are lacking a common instinct. To oust a predator for the common good.

I have a problem with anyone who tries to induce a state of fear on the unwitting.

Shame on you for the fear-mongering OP.

Originally posted by thorfourwinds

How about getting back to the issue at hand and prove that there is no amount of radiation in the recent grape harvest and the subsequent Napa Valley wine?

tfw

I'm not out to prove that there is "no amount of radiation".

It's an absurd request.

America is not undergoing a "nuking" event.

I challenge you to prove this statement, with actual context given to your measurements, and the qualification for your use of the term, "nuking".

The amount of radiation hitting the US is incredibly low compared to what could be reasonably thought of as a "nuking" event.

You ever eat a banana? Guess what, it seems by your standards, you've just undergone "nuking" by potassium-40.

Originally posted by moniesisfun
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

... radiation is virtually everywhere. It's a lie to say there is no "safe" dose.

Greetings:

moniesisfun has definitely stepped over the line here (IMHO) and before we respond to its feeble attempts at humor - it can’t be serious with the quoted statement -

“It's a lie to say there is no "safe" dose”

we wish to thank everyone who has responded to this attempt - once again - to awaken we, the people, to the horrible depopulation travesty foisted upon a trusting, unsuspecting populace by an uncaring, worldwide conspiracy at the highest levels.

The fact that the true dangers of the 24/7/365 radioactive fallout emanating from the triple melt-throughs at Fukushima for over 19 months have been secreted from the American citizens by the very agencies theoretically protecting we, the people, is CRIMINAL and should be prosecuted as such.

What evidence of the radiation fallout bioaccumulation danger and subsequent cover-up might exist?

We might start with the EPA.

4 May 2011

“Due to the consistent decrease in radiation levels across the country associated with the Japanese nuclear incident, EPA will update the daily data summary page only when new data are posted...

After a thorough data review showing declining radiation levels related to the Japanese nuclear incident, EPA has returned to the routine RadNet sampling and analysis process for precipitation, drinking water and milk.“

We might start with the State Department.

The fact that Hillary Clinton signed a pact with her counterpart in Japan agreeing that the U.S. will continue buying seafood from Japan, despite that food not being tested for radioactive materials, has not been common knowledge at the citizen level.

We might start with Dr. John Gofman.

“The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists reported that one of the best-known scientists of the 20th century – Dr. John Gofman – also believed that chronic low level radiation is more dangerous than acute exposure to high doses.”

Gofman was a doctor of nuclear and physical chemistry and a medical doctor who worked on the Manhattan Project, co-discovered uranium-232 and -233 and other radioactive isotopes and proved their fissionability, helped discover how to extract plutonium, led the team that discovered and characterized lipoproteins in the causation of heart disease, served as a Professor Emeritus of Molecular and Cell Biology at the University of California Berkeley, served as Associate Director of the Livermore National Laboratory, was asked by the Atomic Energy Commission to undertake a series of long range studies on potential dangers that might arise from the “peaceful uses of the atom”, and wrote four scholarly books on radiation health effects.

We might start with Dr. Helen Caldicott.

BTW, Dr. Caldicott was our first Twitter follower when we launched Earth Aid, our planet-wide, interactive concert to enable informed, concerned citizens worldwide to unite and speak out in one voice: DENY NUCLEAR.

Internal radiation, on the other hand, emanates from radioactive elements which enter the body by inhalation, ingestion, or skin absorption. Hazardous radionuclides such as iodine-131, caesium 137, and other isotopes currently being released in the sea and air around Fukushima bio-concentrate at each step of various food chains (for example into algae, crustaceans, small fish, bigger fish, then humans; or soil, grass, cow's meat and milk, then humans).

After they enter the body, these elements – called internal emitters – migrate to specific organs such as the thyroid, liver, bone, and brain, where they continuously irradiate small volumes of cells with high doses of alpha, beta and/or gamma radiation, and over many years, can induce uncontrolled cell replication – that is, cancer. Further, many of the nuclides remain radioactive in the environment for generations, and ultimately will cause increased incidences of cancer and genetic diseases over time.

moniesisfun, we sincerely respect your viewpoint and wish to continue this spirited discourse and look forward to your fact-based response to the above.

Thank you for your time and consideration and, most importantly, your participation.

Peace Love Light
tfw
[color=magenta]Liberty & Equality or Revolution

Originally posted by thorfourwinds

Originally posted by moniesisfun
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

... radiation is virtually everywhere. It's a lie to say there is no "safe" dose.

Greetings:

moniesisfun has definitely stepped over the line here (IMHO) and before we respond to its feeble attempts at humor - it can’t be serious with the quoted statement -

I am not an it. That is an objectification of a subjective human being, and what commonly happens in the minds of the personality disordered. It is not humor, it is basic science. Radiation IS virtually everywhere, and we have evolved because of it.

we wish to thank everyone who has responded to this attempt - once again - to awaken we, the people, to the horrible depopulation travesty foisted upon a trusting, unsuspecting populace by an uncaring, worldwide conspiracy at the highest levels.

This is complete and utter NONSENSE. How dare you claim "depopulation". Do you realize what the term means? Do you have the capabilities to realize that the population is growing by the day? Do you realize that the amount of radiation which has been vented in the atmosphere is INCAPABLE of producing a "depopulation" of the United States?

How dare you make such absurd claims. Dare I say this is bordering on Treason. I do.

The fact that the true dangers of the 24/7/365 radioactive fallout emanating from the triple melt-throughs at Fukushima for over 19 months have been secreted from the American citizens by the very agencies theoretically protecting we, the people, is CRIMINAL and should be prosecuted as such.

You sir, maddam, or whatever combination constitutes this "we" which is referred to, lack context.

Without context, your words are meaningless. I could make a similar claim that "radioactive fallout" is emanating from the nuclear detonations which came out of Arizona over the decades, 24/7/365. I could not, however, prove that this led to "depopulation", as has been stated, the population is continuing to increase. How exactly is this event so very different from the thousands of bombs already dropped inside of this country

What is criminal, is your absurd accusations which seem to lack a decent understanding of human nature. While individuals may be intelligent, human beings acting in groups are ignorant fools. They lack context as well, and will fear tiny amounts of radiation. This fear, causes panic, and more chaos and destruction than the event itself. It is a wise economic, and political decision to keep it from the public. You claim it is criminal. Prove it. File the charges.

As for your backing up the statement that "no radiation level is safe" I'm calling complete BS If this were the case, we would not exist, nor would any life. Obviously, it is a balance between various stressors (including radiation), and our adaptive capacities, which allows life to thrive. We know that life on earth respond intelligently to environmental variables. This includes the variability in radiation.

The scientist noted that there were probably historic reasons why it was a lot easier for plants to get used to living in increased levels of radiation. "It is just unbelievable how quickly this ecosystem has been able to adapt," he said. "[There must be] some kind of mechanism that plants already have inside them. Radioactivity has always been present here on Earth, from the very early stages of our planet's formation. "There was a lot more radioactivity on the surface back then than there is now, so probably when life was evolving, these plants came across radioactivity and they probably developed some mechanism that is now in them."

Link

No human being has been known to die from plutonium, as I already linked earlier in the thread. We have no clue what adaptive abilities lie within our bodies natural mechanisms to deal with these radioactive nucleotides. We do know that severe, acute doses are lethal.

There are many which cases that a dose of a substance which would be lethal, when lessened, has a strengthening effect on our system. We have been conditioned to think of radiation as "evil" and always toxic, however, this is an assumption of facts, not in evidence.

Look what I found with a quick search:

Radioresistance may be induced by exposure to small doses of ionizing radiation. Several studies have documented this effect in yeast, bacteria, protozoa, algae, plants, insects, as well as in in vitro mammalian and human cells and in animal models. Several cellular radioprotection mechanisms may be involved, such as alterations in the levels of some cytoplasmic and nuclear proteins and increased gene expression, DNA repair and other processes.

Radioresistence

Epigenetics is a fairly new field, and breakthroughs are happening every year as we progress our understanding of how dynamic gene expressions are, and the implications this has for our view of certain things like the effects of small doses of radiation.

It is intuitive to assume that human beings will be HELPED by small doses of radio-nucleotides. Especially since the mining has already been done. This event will likely HELP humanity in the near future for increased exposure to radiation, as may be needed to seed the solar system and galaxy as our technology progresses.

Of interest:

Space Radiation

If I'm recalling correctly, a month aboard the ISS gives the astronaut the equivalent dose of a smoker inhaling a pack a day for 10 years

The American Dream of the last generation set us on the moon. . .

In this generation, we all dream to be "superstars". . .

If these astronauts are willing to take one for the team, why the hell can't we all for the sake of our species ??

Evolve or Decay.

reply to post by moniesisfun


Everyone being accused of fear mongering presents reasonable discussion points and has a charming maturity about them, which encourages one to consider their words carefully. I tend to think it's worse than we know, but I don't think about it anymore. I O.D'd on fukudoom last year. What can we do?

On the other hand, we have the accusers behaving in a strident and confrontational manner, spewing incoherent and repetitive attacks, in the hierarchy of annoyances, is hostile arrogance really better than fear mongering? I am plenty confused about this topic, and can't imagine who in the world could possibly have a handle on it...arguing like you KNOW something about this cluster*&^ is just silly.

Thank you all for a good thread. Monisfun, your input is probably more important than you know.

reply to post by thorfourwinds


I agree with Pilot. Nobody truly has a grasp on this. I think this could be said of every so called "expert" , arm-chair professional, or government agent.

You seem to be operating from the notion that this is a planned event. I disagree.

You seem to believe that if the public were well informed that we would be in a better situation. I disagree.

You seem to view this as already having more of an effect than is publicly stated. This, I agree with. There is a "cover up", but it's not a "nuking" going on. It's something that is just enough to hit alarm bells with the once current standards for our detection.

You make a huge deal about the cut off limits being raised due to the event, and erroneously tie this into some massive conspiracy to "depopulate" the world, or the US, or whatever... I think this is ludicrous.

What makes much more sense, is that people with high spheres of influence are making damage control decisions, and raising the cut offs because they believe it is in the best interest of the United States, and ultimately the citizens of this nation, and people of the world.

There is no damned perfect system. We humans will continue to wreck havoc on this planet until there is a new place to bounce off to. This planet is doomed to the extent that it will provide safe habitat in the coming centuries, in my assessment. . . and what?? When have we humans not severely damaged the areas in which we inhabit?

It's in our nature, and until the majority of us stop being stupid, ignorant fools, it will continue to be so. You can try to raise awareness all you want, but the truth is that most people out there couldn't care less. It's out of necessity. It's rooted in our basic instincts. It is a simple equation, EROEI. . . energy returned on energy invested. The amount of energy people like you or I have to invest in something like this to make sense of this compared to the perceived benefit makes it worth our while. Most people are simply not too bright, and it is beyond their abilities to reasonably be expected to pay attention to world events and decipher what's going on.

So we are ruled out of necessity. If it was all "doom and gloom" as you seem to portray, we would have been wiped out long ago. The rulers are not pure evil, they're just arrogant pricks who make some wise decisions, and some foolish ones, after all... they're only human!

So if you'd like to continue on, I'm game, but please note I will continue to call out what I perceive to be assumptions not in evidence.

In my heart, I wish for anarchy, yet realize our species is still too damned infantile. We are far from ready, speaking of the whole lot of us. You are free to dream on, but I wonder if you are able to tell a nightmare/delusion from dream/insight ??

reply to post by moniesisfun


Explanation: St*rred!

I concur mostly until you bring up our base nature and instincts ... and I contend that being civilized goes agianst our base nature of being wild and demands that we become both tame and domesticated.

To be civilized requires a high level of upfront transparency and communication.

I agree this epic fail in Japan is not as bad as it seems since I can see how it could be easily fixed.

Personal Disclosure: But since it is not really being fixed and, as you say, they are covering stuff up in what I have detailed above to be an uncivilized manner ... then I see nothing wrong in loudly sporting and supporting a victim mentality in the same uncivilized manner also ok!

They were maniacs and they blew it up and now I am damning them to hell whilst pounding sand ok.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by moniesisfun

 

I agree this epic fail in Japan is not as bad as it seems since I can see how it could be easily fixed.

How would you go about fixing it?

They were maniacs and they blew it up and now I am damning them to hell whilst pounding sand ok.

Who is "they", and how exactly did they go about blowing the site up

Do you believe that HAARP caused the tsunami ??

reply to post by thorfourwinds


"... We have also included three Canadian nuclear power plants that are dangerously close on our Northern border. ..."

....and there's far more dangerously close to Canada's southern border !

reply to post by moniesisfun


Explanation: St*rred!

There are too many technical ways to fix it and I would rather speak in a strategic fashion than a tactical fashion.

If we want to save the area then building remote controlled robots that can be manned by gamers online would quikly solve that issue!

However if we want to make the most of the worst then the entire area could be converted into a launch pad for the 1950's designed nuclear detonation propulsion Project Orion Spaceship and we may also be able to employ the NERVA and many other nuke based power or propulsion methods ... since if the area is already contaminated to the -house then adding more [which is me being dramatic as nukes are far cleaner now] isn't a big issue mainly as it gets us up and off the planet in a spaceship that is very useful and makes the space shuttles look like junk.

Now as to who they are .. anybody who SIGNED off of this BS at any level is responsible.

And they blew it up by neglecting many things and whether that was deliberate or not is yet to be fully determined.

I could make a scientific based case on the possibility of HAARP generating EQ's but I am loathe to give any odds on just how probable such an effect, if shown to be possible, would be?

Personal Disclosure: Thanks for the questions and the quik reply to mine.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by moniesisfun

 

If we want to save the area then building remote controlled robots that can be manned by gamers online would quikly solve that issue!

If I'm recalling correctly, the current remote controlled robots would malfunction rather quickly due to the radiation levels present on site. This was stated sometime last year, probably somewhere in that huge FuKu main thread. How would you suppose we could sufficiently shield against the radiation to have a robot be able to work long enough to "fix the issue".

However if we want to make the most of the worst then the entire area could be converted into a launch pad for the 1950's designed nuclear detonation propulsion Project Orion Spaceship

Well, lots of things from previous decades were thought of, yet determined unfeasible. Perhaps that would be different here in the 21st century, yet I still fail to see how the area could be converted into anything with the technology we currently have.

reply to post by moniesisfun


Explanation: St*rred!

Bang for buck as you have mentioned previously comes into play.

We can go small, cheap, adhoc, expendable/disposable robots made by highschool and colledge kids which may be quikly repaired/replaced/recycled.

AND OR ...

We can go big, expensive, engineered, robust industrial and construction long term robots supplied by nations and corporations.

As for converting the area it is simple as concrete over it and entomb it directly under the launch pad which is going to become irradiated anyway with multiple launches.

Personal Disclosure: The huge con is not that this can't be fixed ... it's that we can and it isn't being done!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


So you're trying to tell me that the entire Japanese government, along with the governments of the world are in cahooots and performing a media blackout of potential solutions, and the severity of the situation.... just because

I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with your assessment of how it could possibly be fixed. I have reasoned a few solutions last year that seemed pretty easy, yet admit that you nor I truly know the exact circumstances of this specific site, and the potential repercussions of what seems in our minds to be easily solvable methods.

So I guess my question is: assuming that this could be easily fixed, why exactly isn't it

Please don't just say "depopulation" as I don't see it as a reasonable assumption. I would be more open to something like. . . they're trying to harden up our species and willing to take extreme means wipe out the weakest while strengthening the majority. That they reason some will die, most will become ill, and some will adapt and evolve. So it's kinda an x-men type of situation. Slowly allowing atmospheric levels of various nucleotides to rise over the decades, and every so once in a while causing an event to happen which bumps it up a notch.

I think this would be all pure speculation.

Another explanation is that this is simply an end result of a western model of civilization where everyone has to cover arse, keep information secret from sector to sector, and manipulate their way through problems. It may work for smaller issues, but potential mega-disasters...maybe not so much.

reply to post by OutonaLimb


Perhaps it's the other way around - chemtrailing is the antidote to xxxxx..... Just a thought.

reply to post by WoodSpirit

Since you are obviously one of these people thinking for himself, can you make a vid in which you are doing this, proving once and for all the dangerous levels of radiation we are subjected to on a daily basis because of Fukushima? This must be very easy to do for you if your money is where your mouth is.

Perhaps i sounded a bit blow hardish, that was not my intent...I apologize to anyone i may have offended.
I have not detected any abnormal readings that i can attribute to Fukushima in food that I have purchased or in the environment. I am on the east coast of the U.S. There were elevated counts of background radiation during the summer but that was all.

I have a ludlum model 3 survey meter with a pancake probe. You want the pancake probe because it detects alpha, beta, and gamma radiation; plus it covers more surface area when you are scanning your food. Particles fly out in all directions and all angles. a geiger muller tube will miss more particles as you run it across the surface of test subject.Youtube is a good place for learning more about it. The people who have already posted videos about detecting radiation have done a far better job than i would. Plus I am still learning.

Money is dirty, I never put it in my mouth...

I see a lot of this on youtube.



Readings are taken in a number of locations with panning shots to show the location and human activity.
Very often there is a notable difference between lower readings in the open and higher readings in corners where debris collects and at the bottom of rainwater downpipes.

www.youtube.com...

radiation video
sorry if its posted elsewhere here but quite interesting as we live N of Spokane and Spokane got a radiation dump

I challenge all the people who think radiation is harmless to do a google search on 'depleted uranium babies and Iraq' and take a good long look at the genetic damage caused by just that relatively mild source. The description 'horrific' doesn't begin to cover it. Extrapolate out to the fact that the DU is now circling the globe in dust clouds (it's been detected in England) and add in the ironically named Fuku disaster and start wondering what your children and your children's children, are going to look like in perpetuity. IF, and it's a big IF, they manage to reproduce at all with viable offspring. If you don't have/want children and don't give a damn about the future of the human race, you're excused from this discussion as a classic sociopath. My condolences on your obvious diagnosis.

While you're taking your good long look at the double headed babies, the cyclops babies, the so horribly deformed babies we don't even have terms for them, think about what the people of Iraq and environs think about the United States and its supposed superior status as a world leader in democracy, freedom, exceptionalism, etc.