Lost Maritime Cultures: China and the Pacific

Originally posted by Hanslune
Native Americans are of Asian descent, obviously they will tend to resemble Asians!

Being of mostly Native American descent myself I agree. However, many of the objects seem to appear to represent a much more recent connection than those who crossed the land bridge in prehistory.

Is it possible there was a connection at or around say between 300 B.C. and 500 A.D.?

Boat drift will bring Asians to N America it happened in historic times and may have happened before

My thoughts exactly.

The Polynesians may have pushed eastward (I suspect they did) but their culture would not have done well against SA cultures of that time

OR

It could have been either absorbed or assimilated and then gone through some transformation over the centuries to the point of barely being recognizable if at all.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Being of mostly Native American descent myself I agree. However, many of the objects seem to appear to represent a much more recent connection than those who crossed the land bridge in prehistory.

Is it possible there was a connection at or around say between 300 B.C. and 500 A.D.?

Perhaps, oh and forgot to mention that one of the 'waves' of migration included people who were related to the Ainu, perhaps of the same lineage of the Kennewick man, those folks, while Asian looking have beards. A number of images/figurines from excavations at Tres Zapotes show bearded men

Part Choctaw myself

My thoughts exactly

The last known Japanese to drift to North America

It could have been either absorbed or assimilated and then gone through some transformation over the centuries to the point of barely being recognizable if at all.

I think that scenario would apply to any Polynesian group that showed up. I had hoped that a polynesian presence would be found on the Islands off the South American coast but at this time, nada

Thanks for the invite. You guys just about covered it. More on the Chinese trading fleet...

www.dailykos.com...

This one here and the one above reminded me of the famous Chinese Terracotta statues.

Or the Spanish...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f58494dbe650.jpg[/atsimg]

This one is particularly disturbing. I know it resembles Chines acrobats, but I read somewhere (i'm looking) that the "punishers" in their time had a list of favorite ways to dispose of enemies. One was to tie the hapless victim into a wheel (like your picture) and roll him down the steps of the pyramid. Ouch!

Edit: I have seen these "anchor stones" of the west coast of America. There are piles of them. The big ones are thought to be Chinese in origin, the little ones from Native American canoe fisherman.

www.cristobalcolondeibiza.com...

The Tres Zapotes head comes from an excavation dated to 1000 to 100 BC (I'm not sure which of the excavation it was they did several starting in 1939). so 1,500 to 2,500 years before the Zheng voyages

reply to post by intrptr




Some more rare wooden Olmec finds.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f8bdd0aad4fd.jpg[/atsimg]

Also, I was thinking more along these lines...

Originally posted by Hanslune
The Tres Zapotes head comes from an excavation dated to 1000 to 100 BC (I'm not sure which of the excavation it was they did several starting in 1939). so 1,500 to 2,500 years before the Zheng voyages

Yes. The question again is...

Could there have been contact at or around the time of the Tres Zapotes period? I ask because if the article is true then the Chinese have been out in the Pacific preceding the Olmec and after. Could there have been contact between the two periods?

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Hanslune
The Tres Zapotes head comes from an excavation dated to 1000 to 100 BC (I'm not sure which of the excavation it was they did several starting in 1939). so 1,500 to 2,500 years before the Zheng voyages

Yes. The question again is...

Could there have been contact at or around the time of the Tres Zapotes period? I ask because if the article is true then the Chinese have been out in the Pacific preceding the Olmec and after. Could there have been contact between the two periods?

They were certainly out coastally but did they take the months long voyages to the East?

Based on Possible, plausible and probable

Possible yes

Plausible maybe but my knowledge of Chinese watercraft of that period is near zero. That might be path to follow - what did the Chinese have at that time and what was the status of their ability to navigate and preserve foods?

Probable- without any evidence of their being there especially on the intermediate islands I'd be skeptical

Edited to add, I'm going to look at pottery finds in the Pacific that will give us an idea of when the Chinese might have been trading in the area. Voyages of 'exploration' tend on average to leave few traces

reply to post by SLAYER69


To paraphrase the Joker...

"Where does he come up with these marvelous threads?"

You are one of the members that convinced me to join ATS, back when I was a lurker. Thank you.

As you know, I usually stick to things I know or at least have a educated opinion on, but am always looking to expand my thought process and education into the....uh....um, weird.

You deliver! Rock on and keep it up!

Originally posted by Hanslune
They were certainly out coastally but did they take the months long voyages to the East?

what did the Chinese have at that time and what was the status of their ability to navigate and preserve foods?

If they were traveling along the coast couldn't they have just fished along the way as they did just off their coast for food?

Edited to add, I'm going to look at pottery finds in the Pacific that will give us an idea of when the Chinese might have been trading in the area. Voyages of 'exploration' tend on average to leave few traces

I'd be interested in what you find. Also, I've read references to similarity between Jomon pottery and some Central and South American styles and techniques...

They seem superficial though.

In the late Han dynasty period this is the known extent of their SE Asian travels - as demonstrated by Chinese artifacts being found




In the Tang dynasty trade is easily found to have been made to Asia, India and Middle East

There was Chinese pottery showing up in Acre in the 12th century, but probably by transhipment and not direct Chinese trading and even earlier around 1100 AD Chinese pottery made it to Europe.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Thanks Slayer SnF

I'm as positive as I can be this is exactly how the serpent God worship was spread to Mexico and So America.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Thanks

It opens up a whole new possibility. I feel the Americas were visited quite a few times in prehistory. From many peoples. East and West and at various times over many centuries. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence.

Olmec art shows two very distinctive racial appearances

Originally posted by awake1234
Nice~

The truth is right before our eyes,

Unfortunately unless we find some direct connection, the visual similarities are just considered that.

Similarities.

The key to this story is knowing that there was a large landmass in the Pacific ocean. Called Mu or Lemuria, it was the true cradle of civilization. All peoples spread out from this continent long ago. The twelve tribes all come form Mu. The Aborigional and south sea islanders are the remains of the once peaceful Eden. Easter island is also a remanent of Lemuria. All other sacred sites are attempted reproductions of the true motherland. The first pyramidal structures were on Mu/Lemuria. Research the work of James Churchwood for more info.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I remember seeing a show, I think it was "Ancient Aliens" that showed the the carvings of Puma Punku also had a Grey amongst them. That was kinda odd I thought.

Maybe others didn't cross just oceans to get here.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Thanks Slayer SnF

I'm as positive as I can be this is exactly how the serpent God worship was spread to Mexico and So America.

I love that one
I've been searching for a while now trying to find similar objects. That one does seem very telling imho.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Perhaps I haven't been deep enough, or my memory might be failing, but if we could find evidence of ancient Chinese human sacrifice rituals. That would be the binding tie. In my view.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by intrptr

 

Some more rare wooden Olmec finds.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f8bdd0aad4fd.jpg[/atsimg]

Also, I was thinking more along these lines...

Okay, I see the linkage...
At first I was having trouble with the pronounced beard and mustache in the Orient. And the ear rings. They are notably European of that era. But the Chinese do grow them. My bad.
Could very well be. Thanks for showing the similarities.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Found a good "speculative" about the Ancient Chines ships and their exploits. This one specifically delves into their "crossing the Pacific"...

reply to post by intrptr



Awesome.

Thanks for the vid.

checking out now