Why do people believe in the story of Jesus but cannot even acknowledge that Aliens abduct people???

Originally posted by sd211212
reply to post by ProfEmeritus

 

I ll end the thread there. I think I have proven the conditioning aspect of our society. Why is questioning the bible and its "factual" history stir such a reaction from its staunch believers??? Darn tough crowd. 

Lastly Jesus said "I am not of this world"  There is proof of "ALIENS"   Also proves the point of the word "alien" its a word. if he wasnt from this world he was and extraterrestrial. Why is that so sacriligious??

But it's not proof of "aliens" when He said "I am not of this world". That is choosing to take an isolated piece of scripture to fit your beliefs. Jesus also said to worship God in "spirit and truth" and 

"The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. John 14:17-20

It is proof that there is a spiritual realm that most of us are cut off from. Flesh and blood do not inherit it, so we can rule out "aliens" in the meaning which you are trying to support. By choosing to believe that Jesus was an "extraterrestrial" what you end up doing is accepting an image of who the media, the single most powerful pulpit in the world, has created for you. This pulpit, far more powerful than any Christian pastor's pulpit, continually preaches a message that Jesus was not the Son of God let alone God in human flesh. By choosing to believe the media pulpit's message, you are then able to warp him into an "extraterrestrial" and an "alien". The only reason that you can do so is because this false prophet continually preaches to you

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 2.22

You ask why "Jesus is an alien" is sacrilegious? It's because you are parroting as truth what antichrists and liars have preached to you, and you've believed it. I'm sure that you also believe that Christians are "brainwashed"....yet deny and cannot accept that you've sucked down tens of thousands of hours of antichrist media gospel that has brainwashed you to thoroughly reject your Creator and His Salvation. In Christ's days on Earth, the Jews killed Him out of envy. They killed Him because they were not willing to let go of their human power, control and dictatorship. They swayed the crowd to demand the release of the murderer and insurrectionist, Barabbas ("son of the father"), instead of Christ, the Son of God. Take a step back and look at today....we have the same groups of wicked men who have consolidated all the resources, who seek to 'Rule the World' and who are enslaving the world to their dictatorship. Guess what? In order to do that, they too have been swaying the crowds to reject the Son of God and choose the other, the lie, the fast approaching son of perdition (destruction), the dark knight rising.

Jesus told us all that "What was, will be again". These wicked men could not have risen unless true Faith in God Almighty was lessened and a love of sin indoctrinated into the masses. Just as the tower in the days of Babel was built using bricks (same Hebrew root word as leprosy, sin), it's no different than today. Their tower is rising exponentially faster and faster in direct proportion to our rejection of true Faith and increasing love of wickedness. They gain their dictatorships and tyranny because of our sins, because we refuse to be accountable to Our Creator and instead choose to become accountable to man. We hand over complete control and power to these men who want nothing more than to be your "god", and as such, tyranny eventually forms. Many in the west today are crying out "We have no king but Caesar" as they revel in their newfound paganism and Roman circus of yesteryear, never once suspecting that they, in their love of indoctrinated tolerance, will become completely intolerant to Christ and Christ within His faithful just as pagan Rome did. Pagan Rome, in their "tolerance" of sin and heathenism, burned alive and fed Christians to the lions.

Do you want to know what real truth and love is? That Our Creator even stepped into this condemned world in order to provide the way out to a creation that would rather tell Him to get lost - that He died for us whilst we were still sinners.This world is already condemned by the law because of sin, and if it wasn't for Christ's rule and reign over these past 2,000 years, we'd all have perished. Choose good and life or evil and death, but in order to do that, you must seriously meditate upon your source of "truth". Only God is Truth

I believe it is Corinthians that speaks about different flesh, There is the flesh of man but there is also another kind of flesh and he is talking about when people are changed. Christ had said that people would be changed into that other flesh because human flesh could not enter the kingdom of heaven and when they follow him back after the day of judgment those of that other flesh are seen living in the world of man. It says "Behold" as though it is a surprising sight never before seen. Now I am not talking about Pantekrator or Dunnumis, the unseen aspect of God...;. God of the universe (because there are many different words used).... I'm talking about dieties (that's the translation... angels, the Elohim.

Regardless of what you think about Extraterrestrials or non human beings, that "other flesh" is not human.

And you cannot describe it, have never seen it, do not know the scientific term for it, do not know the spiritual term for it, do not know when this is going to happen or who it's happen to.... but if you believe the bible, you believe it and you believe it is not human flesh because that's exactly what the bible tells you.

Will you know it when you see it?

I hope even though you've never seen it before you'll recognize it before you condemn it, but I'm pretty sure you don't have a clue and I'm just saying... God makes what he wants and if somebody is going to say this life form or that life is evil, can they at least identify it first because if they can't.... it's pretty clear they are talking straight up fear based nonsense.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by sd211212

 

The fact that he was born on the Earth and there are eye witness accounts of him help a whole lot.

Really? Do you have interviews with these eye witnesses? Or just a couple of old references to "Christos" or "the Christ" which is a title not a name (meaning "The Anointed One").

Also, technically Jesus is the son of god who is not of this earth, so he is half alien by definition. And when Mary was impregnated by him, I doubt he just waived a magic wand. More likely he had to take her to a place to be artificially inseminated, then wiped her memory of the event. And walla, a virgin birth.

You know who else was born a virgin birth? Anakin Skywalker, and he turned out to be Darth Vader. Oh, and he was completely fictional.

The answer is simple. There have not been any official recorded stuff of UFO activity during the last 2.000 years. Jesus on the other hand has been seen and believed by millions during his life. That is more than enough evidence. The UFO evidence are reports by crazy individuals who think they have been abducted.

Originally posted by kavaron
The answer is simple. There have not been any official recorded stuff of UFO activity during the last 2.000 years. Jesus on the other hand has been seen and believed by millions during his life. That is more than enough evidence. The UFO evidence are reports by crazy individuals who think they have been abducted.

2000 years ago, you would have gotten away with a lot more than just calling people crazy.... You could have burned them alive. Imagine how many people will believe ETs existed at least in this age 2000 years from now. People like you will call it official because ancient internet writings will reveal millions of written accounts of all sort of experiences.

no official recorded stuff on ufos in the last 2000 years. I took a wrong turn while visiting the hospital.

What is official to YOU?

Having it tainted and mistranslated by the church?

End of story, send all your ET and UFO experiences to the pope for reinterpretation... we''ll make a religion out of this after all.

Originally posted by kavaron
The answer is simple. There have not been any official recorded stuff of UFO activity during the last 2.000 years. Jesus on the other hand has been seen and believed by millions during his life. That is more than enough evidence. The UFO evidence are reports by crazy individuals who think they have been abducted.

That statement is only true in reverse. Believed is different than actually existing. There are countless references to aliens from completely different sources that had no contact with one another. While Jesus believers always seem to be connected in one manner or another, you know what that is? Bias.

Please explain what all the other gods that precede the Christian one are? Just made up? Then all of the sudden the "real god" comes to light miraculously a couple thousand years ago? I think I will take the opinions of people who existed long before the bible was "written" over a bunch of Romans sitting around thinking up ways to control people, all while borrowing what they already knew worked from different religions. Then they go around destroying anything that defied "the word of god". You think if they were so confident that there religion was the right one, they wouldnt have to go around destroying "pagan" antiquity.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 2.22

Hmmmmm.......... Convenient.

Ok, this is how I see it, or what I believe.
As far as I know Jesus' story is a compilation of a whole bunch of other "sons of God" even before his time.
There are many "sons of God" who were born of a virgin, died on a cross, healed the sick, resurrected and went up to the heavens. Why do we add so much value to Jesus' story in particular? What makes his story more believable?

I have not seen an Alien, but I do believe there is something going on out there. I have seen numerous convincing YouTube vids, Eyewitness accounts etc etc to know something is up. Whether it is beings from another planet or multidimensional beings I don't know. But there are theories supporting both sides.

Something is going on... whether it be the Gods, Aliens, Jesus and/or Angels etc. They are there.

Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing

As far as I know Jesus' story is a compilation of a whole bunch of other "sons of God" even before his time.

Something is going on... whether it be the Gods, Aliens, Jesus and/or Angels etc. They are there.

I concur, enough said.

Originally posted by SpearMint

We do not know that Jesus existed, if he did exist he was probably just an ordinary man. You can provide no more proof of him than anyone can of alien abductions, in fact they can probably provide more proof than you can.

So if a fictional character has a message, they must have existed! Aliens don't need a message, neither do we when we study the world. Imaginary Jesus exists in a book, as does his message.

basically you made up your own BS to fit your argument.
Historicity of Jesus

You can provide no more proof of him than anyone can of alien abductions

1.^ a b Jesus and His Contemporaries: Comparative Studies by Craig A. Evans 2001 ISBN 0391041185 pages 2-5
2.^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q Christopher M. Tuckett In The Cambridge Companion to Jesus edited by Markus N. A. Bockmuehl 2001 ISBN 0521796784 pages 122-126
3.^ a b c d e Amy-Jill Levine in the The Historical Jesus in Context edited by Amy-Jill Levine et al. 2006 Princeton Univ Press ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6 pages 1-2
4.^ a b Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium by Bart D. Ehrman (Sep 23, 1999) ISBN 0195124731 Oxford Univ Press pages ix-xi
5.^ a b c In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship, Bart Ehrman (who is a secular agnostic) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees" B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged : writing in the name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. page 285
6.^ Robert M. Price (an atheist who denies existence) agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars: Robert M. Price "Jesus at the Vanishing Point" in The Historical Jesus: Five Views edited by James K. Beilby & Paul Rhodes Eddy, 2009 InterVarsity, ISBN 028106329X page 61
7.^ a b Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Micjhael Grant 2004 ISBN 1898799881 page 200
8.^ a b Richard A. Burridge states: "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more." in Jesus Now and Then by Richard A. Burridge and Graham Gould (Apr 1, 2004) ISBN 0802809774 page 34
9.^ a b c d Robert E. Van Voorst Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence Eerdmans Publishing, 2000. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 16 states: "biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of non-existence of Jesus as effectively refuted"
10.^ a b James D. G. Dunn "Paul's understanding of the death of Jesus" in Sacrifice and Redemption edited by S. W. Sykes (Dec 3, 2007) Cambridge University Press ISBN 052104460X pages 35-36 states that the theories of non-existence of Jesus are "a thoroughly dead thesis"
11.^ a b c The Gospels and Jesus by Graham Stanton, 1989 ISBN 0192132415 Oxford University Press, page 145 states : "Today nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed".
12.^ a b c d e f Paul L. Maier "The Date of the Nativity and Chronology of Jesus" in Chronos, kairos, Christos: nativity and chronological studies by Jerry Vardaman, Edwin M. Yamauchi 1989 ISBN 0-931464-50-1 pages 113-129
13.^ a b c d The Cradle, the Cross, and the Crown: An Introduction to the New Testament by Andreas J. Köstenberger, L. Scott Kellum 2009 ISBN 978-0-8054-4365-3 page 114
14.^ a b Joel B. Green, Scot McKnight, I. Howard Marshall, Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (InterVarsity Press, 1992), page 442
15.^ a b The Historical Jesus in Recent Research edited by James D. G. Dunn and Scot McKnight 2006 ISBN 1-57506-100-7 page 303
16.^ a b Who Is Jesus? by John Dominic Crossan, Richard G. Watts 1999 ISBN 0664258425 pages 28-29
17.^ a b c James Barr, Which language did Jesus speak, Bulletin of the John Rylands University Library of Manchester, 1970; 53(1) pages 9-29 [1]
18.^ a b c Handbook to exegesis of the New Testament by Stanley E. Porter 1997 ISBN 90-04-09921-2 pages 110-112
19.^ a b Discovering the language of Jesus by Douglas Hamp 2005 ISBN 1-59751-017-3 page 3-4
20.^ a b Jesus in history and myth by R. Joseph Hoffmann 1986 ISBN 0-87975-332-3 page 98
21.^ a b James Barr's review article Which language did Jesus speak (referenced above) states that Aramaic has the widest support among scholars.
22.^ a b c d Jesus Remembered by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 page 339 states of baptism and crucifixion that these "two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent".
23.^ a b c d e f g h i j Prophet and Teacher: An Introduction to the Historical Jesus by William R. Herzog (Jul 4, 2005) ISBN 0664225284 pages 1-6
24.^ a b c Crossan, John Dominic (1995). Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography. HarperOne. p. 145. ISBN 0-06-061662-8. "That he was crucified is as sure as anything historical can ever be, since both Josephus and Tacitus...agree with the Christian accounts on at least that basic fact."
25.^ a b c Eddy & Boyd (2007) The Jesus Legend: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition Baker Academic, ISBN 0-8010-3114-1 page 127 states that it is now "firmly established" that there is non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus
26.^ a b c d e f g Authenticating the Activities of Jesus by Bruce Chilton and Craig A. Evans 2002 ISBN 0391041649 pages 3-7
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28.^ Criteria for Authenticity in Historical-Jesus Research by Stanley E. Porter 2004 ISBN 0567043606 pages 100-120
29.^ a b c d e The Cambridge Companion to Jesus by Markus N. A. Bockmuehl 2001 ISBN 0521796784 pages 121-125
30.^ Studying the Historical Jesus: Evaluations of the State of Current Research by Bruce Chilton, Craig A. Evans 1998 ISBN 9004111425 pages 460-470
31.^ a b c Encyclopedia of theology: a concise Sacramentum mundi by Karl Rahner 2004 ISBN 0-86012-006-6 pages 730-731
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33.^ Jesus as a Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee by Mark Allan Powell 1998 ISBN 0-664-25703-8 pages 168-173
34.^ a b Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey' by Craig L. Blomberg 2009 ISBN 0-8054-4482-3 pages 431-436
35.^ Van Voorst (2000) pp. 39-53
36.^ The new complete works of Josephus by Flavius Josephus, William Whiston, Paul L. Maier ISBN 0-8254-2924-2 pages 662-663
37.^ Josephus XX by Louis H. Feldman 1965, ISBN 0674995023 page 496
38.^ Van Voorst, Robert E. (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence ISBN 0-8028-4368-9. page 83
39.^ Flavius Josephus; Maier, Paul L. (December 1995). Josephus, the essential works: a condensation of Jewish antiquities and The Jewish war ISBN 978-0-8254-3260-6 pages 284-285
40.^ The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings by Bart D. Ehrman 1999 ISBN 0-19-512639-4 page 248
41.^ a b c d Jesus and the Politics of his Day by E. Bammel and C. F. D. Moule (Aug 30, 1985) ISBN 0521313449 page 393
42.^ a b In Jesus: The Complete Guide edited by J. L. Houlden (Feb 8, 2006) ISBN 082648011X pages 693-694
43.^ a b Jesus in the Talmud by Peter Schäfer (Aug 24, 2009) ISBN 0691143188 page 141 and 9
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46.^ a b c d e f Kostenberger, Andreas J.; Kellum, L. Scott; Quarles, Charles L. (2009). The Cradle, the Cross, and the Crown: An Introduction to the New Testament ISBN 0-8054-4365-7. pages 107-109
47.^ Amy-Jill Levine in The Historical Jesus in Context edited by Amy-Jill Levine et al. Princeton Univ Press 2006 ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6 page 10
48.^ a b Van Voorst, Robert E. (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 pages 177-118
49.^ a b The Life and Ministry of Jesus by Douglas Redford 2007 ISBN 0-7847-1900-4 page 32
50.^ The Historical Jesus of the Gospels by Craig S. Keener 2012 ISBN 0802868886 page 182
51.^ Theissen, Gerd; Merz, Annette (1998). The historical Jesus : a comprehensive guide ISBN 0-8006-3122-6. page 165 states: "Our conclusion must be that Jesus came from Nazareth."
52.^ In The Historical Jesus in Recent Research edited by James D. G. Dunn and Scot McKnight 2006 ISBN 1-57506-100-7 page 303 Marcus Borg states that the suggestions that an adult Jesus traveled to Egypt of India are "without historical foundation"
53.^ InWho Is Jesus? by John Dominic Crossan, Richard G. Watts 1999 ISBN 0664258425 pages 28-29 John Dominic Crossan states that none of the theories presented to fill the 15-18 year gap between the early life of Jesus and the start of [his ministry have been supported by modern scholarship.
54.^ Van Voorst, Robert E (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Eerdmans Publishing. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 17
55.^ Jesus of Nazareth by Paul Verhoeven (Apr 6, 2010) ISBN 1583229051 page 39
56.^ Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey by Craig L. Blomberg 2009 ISBN 0-8054-4482-3 pages 211-214
57.^ a b A Brief Introduction to the New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman 2008 ISBN 0-19-536934-3 page 136
58.^ a b John P. Meier "How do we decide what comes from Jesus" in The Historical Jesus in Recent Research by James D. G. Dunn and Scot McKnight 2006 ISBN 1-57506-100-7 pages 126-128 and 132-136
59.^ John P. Meier "How do we decide what comes from Jesus" in The Historical Jesus in Recent Research by James D. G. Dunn and Scot McKnight 2006 ISBN 1-57506-100-7 pages 132-136
60.^ a b A Century of Theological and Religious Studies in Britain, 1902-2002 by Ernest Nicholson 2004 ISBN 0-19-726305-4 pages 125-126
61.^ a b c d Craig Evans, 2006 "Josephus on John the Baptist" in The Historical Jesus in Context edited by Amy-Jill Levine et al. Princeton Univ Press ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6 pages 55-58
62.^ The new complete works of Josephus by Flavius Josephus, William Whiston, Paul L. Maier ISBN 0-8254-2924-2 pages 662-663
63.^ Jesus as a figure in history: how modern historians view the man from Galilee by Mark Allan Powell 1998 ISBN 0-664-25703-8 page 47
64.^ Who Is Jesus? by John Dominic Crossan, Richard G. Watts 1999 ISBN 0664258425 pages 31-32
65.^ Jesus of Nazareth: An Independent Historian's Account of His Life and Teaching by Maurice Casey 2010 ISBN 0-567-64517-7 page 35
66.^ Who is Jesus?: an introduction to Christology by Thomas P. Rausch 2003 ISBN 978-0-8146-5078-3 page 77
67.^ a b John the Baptist: prophet of purity for a new age by Catherine M. Murphy 2003 ISBN 0-8146-5933-0 pages 29-30
68.^ Jesus and His Contemporaries: Comparative Studies by Craig A. Evans 2001 ISBN 0-391-04118-5 page 15
69.^ An introduction to the New Testament and the origins of Christianity by Delbert Royce Burkett 2002 ISBN 0-521-00720-8 pages 247-248
70.^ Who is Jesus? by Thomas P. Rausch 2003 ISBN 978-0-8146-5078-3 page 36
71.^ The relationship between John the Baptist and Jesus of Nazareth: A Critical Study by Daniel S. Dapaah 2005 ISBN 0-7618-3109-6 page 91
72.^ a b The Cambridge Companion to St Paul by James D. G. Dunn (Nov 10, 2003) Cambridge Univ Press ISBN 0521786940 page 20
73.^ Paul: his letters and his theology by Stanley B. Marrow 1986 ISBN 0-8091-2744-X pages 45-49
74.^ a b c d Herodias: at home in that fox's den by Florence Morgan Gillman 2003 ISBN 0-8146-5108-9 pages 25-30
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77.^ Dunn, James DG (2003). Jesus Remembered. Eerdmans Publishing. p. 324.
78.^ a b Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible 2000 Amsterdam University Press ISBN 90-5356-503-5 page 249
79.^ The Bible Knowledge Background Commentary: Matthew-Luke, Volume 1 by Craig A. Evans 2003 ISBN 0-7814-3868-3 pages 67-69
80.^ a b International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: E-J by Geoffrey W. Bromiley 1982 ISBN 0-8028-3782-4 pages 694-695
81.^ The Riddles of the Fourth Gospel: An Introduction to John by Paul N. Anderson 2011 ISBN 0-8006-0427-X pages 200
82.^ Herod the Great by Jerry Knoblet 2005 ISBN 0-7618-3087-1 page 183-184
83.^ The Word in this world by Paul William Meyer, John T. Carroll 2004 ISBN 0-664-22701-5 page 112
84.^ The Content and the Setting of the Gospel Tradition by Mark Harding, Alanna Nobbs 2010 ISBN 0-8028-3318-7 pages 88-89
85.^ Theissen (1998) pp. 64–72
86.^ Theissen (1998) pp. 81-83
87.^ Green, Joel B. (1997). The Gospel of Luke : new international commentary on the New Testament. Grand Rapids, Mich.: W.B. Eerdmans Pub. Co.. p. 168. ISBN 0-8028-2315-7.
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89.^ a b c The Cradle, the Cross, and the Crown: An Introduction to the New Testament by Andreas J. Köstenberger, L. Scott Kellum 2009 ISBN 978-0-8054-4365-3 pages 77-79
90.^ a b c Paul's early period: chronology, mission strategy, theology by Rainer Riesner 1997 ISBN 978-0-8028-4166-7 page 19-27 (page 27 has a table of various scholarly estimates)
91.^ Pratt, J. P. (1991). "Newton's Date for the Crucifixion". Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society 32 (3): 301–304. Bibcode 1991QJRAS..32..301P.
92.^ Humphreys, Colin J.; W. G. Waddington (December 1983). "Dating the Crucifixion". Nature 306 (5945): 743–746. Bibcode 1983Natur.306..743H. doi:10.1038/306743a0.
93.^ Colin Humphreys, The Mystery of the Last Supper Cambridge University Press 2011 ISBN 978-0-521-73200-0, page 13
94.^ Sanders (1993). pp. 11, 249.
95.^ The new complete works of Josephus by Flavius Josephus, William Whiston, Paul L. Maier ISBN 0825429242 pages 662-663
96.^ Herod Antipas by Harold W. Hoehner 1983 ISBN 0-310-42251-5 pages 125-127
97.^ International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: A-D by Geoffrey W. Bromiley 1995 ISBN 0-8028-3781-6 pages 686-687
98.^ a b c d e f g h i The Cradle, the Cross, and the Crown: An Introduction to the New Testament by Andreas J. Köstenberger, L. Scott Kellum 2009 ISBN 978-0-8054-4365-3 page 110
99.^ a b c d Lives of the Caesars by Suetonius, Catharine Edwards 2001 ISBN 0192832719 pages 184 and 203
100.^ a b Christianity and the Roman Empire: background texts by Ralph Martin Novak 2001 ISBN 1-56338-347-0 pages 18-22
101.^ a b The Cambridge companion to Jesus by Markus N. A. Bockmuehl 2001 Cambridge Univ Press ISBN 978-0-521-79678-1 pages 214-215
102.^ A theory of primitive Christian religion by Gerd Theissen 2003 ISBN 0-334-02913-9 pages 23-27
103.^ The historical Jesus: ancient evidence for the life of Christ by Gary Habermas 1996 ISBN 0-89900-732-5 pages 27-31
104.^ Van Voorst (2000) pp. 7-8
105.^ The historical Jesus: ancient evidence for the life of Christ by Gary Habermas 1996 ISBN 0-89900-732-5 pages 47-51
106.^ The Cambridge companion to Jesus by Markus N. A. Bockmuehl 2001 Cambridge Univ Press ISBN 978-0-521-79678-1 pages 123-124. Page 124 state that the "farfetched theories that Jesus' existence was a Christian invention are highly implausible."
107.^ Powell, Mark Allan (1998). Jesus as a figure in history: how modern historians view the man from Galilee. Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox Press. p. 168. ISBN 978-0-664-25703-3.
108.^ a b The historical Jesus in the twentieth century, 1900-1950 by Walter P. Weaver 1999 ISBN 1-56338-280-6 page 45-50
109.^ Exploring Jewish Literature of the Second Temple Period by Larry R. Helyer (Jul 5, 2002) ISBN 0830826785 page 493
110.^ Jewish Responses To Early Christians by Claudia Setzer (Nov 1, 1994) ISBN 080062680X page 215
111.^ In Chapter VIII Trypho's statement: "But Christ —if He has indeed been born, and exists anywhere—is unknown, and does not even know Himself" refers to Christ, which Trypho (as other Jews) still awaited. Justin styled the conversation on John 7:27, with Trypho objecting to Jesus (who was from Galillee) being Christ given that the origins of Jesus were known, but those for Christ could not be, as the Pharisees said of Jesus in John 7:27: "we know this man whence he is: but when the Christ cometh, no one knoweth whence he is." References:Testimony of the Beloved Disciple, The: Narrative, History, and Theology in the Gospel of John by Richard Bauckham (Nov 1, 2007) ISBN 080103485X page 232 & Bible Knowledge Background Commentary: Matthew-Luke by David C. Cook and Craig A. Evans (Feb 27, 2003) ISBN 0781438683 page 285, & The Gospel According to John: An Introduction and Commentary by Colin G. Kruse (Jun 2004) ISBN 0802827713 page 188 & The Gospel of John: A Commentary by Frederick Dale Bruner (Feb 22, 2012) ISBN 0802866352 page 485
112.^ a b The historical Jesus question by Gregory W. Dawes 2001 ISBN 0-664-22458-X pages 77-79
113.^ The Life of Jesus, Critically Examined by David Friedrich Strauss 2010 ISBN 1-61640-309-8 pages 39-43 and 87-91
114.^ The making of the new spirituality by James A. Herrick 2003 ISBN 0-8308-2398-0 pages 58–65
115.^ Van Voorst (2000) pp. 11–15
116.^ Stanton, Graham. The Gospels and Jesus. Oxford University Press, 2002, p. 145 (first published 1989). Wells, G. A. "Jesus, Historicity of" Tom Flynn (ed.) The New Encyclopedia of Disbelief. Prometheus, 2007, p. 446.
For a summary of the mainstream position, see Eddy, Paul R. and Boyd, Gregory A. The Jesus Legend: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition. Baker Academic, 2007, pp. 24–27

117.^ Stanton, Graham. The Gospels and Jesus. Oxford University Press, 2002; first published 1989, p. 143.
118.^ James D.G. Dunn, 1985 The Evidence for Jesus ISBN 0-664-24698-2 page 29
119.^ a b Jesus in history, thought, and culture: an encyclopedia, Volume 1 by James Leslie Houlden 2003 ISBN 1-57607-856-6 page 660
120.^ a b Van Voorst (2000) p. 14
121.^ Familiar stranger: an introduction to Jesus of Nazareth by Michael James McClymond 2004 ISBN 0-8028-2680-6 page 163
122.^ For Well's views see: G.A. Wells, The Jesus Myth, Open Court 1999, ISBN 0-8126-9392-2
123.^ a b c d e f g h i j Criteria for Authenticity in Historical-Jesus Research by Stanley E. Porter 2004 ISBN 0567043606 pages 100-120
124.^ a b The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology by Alan Richardson 1983 ISBN 0664227481 pages 215-216
125.^ a b Interpreting the New Testament by Daniel J. Harrington (Jun 1990) ISBN 0814651240 pages 96-98
126.^ The Historical Jesus and the Final Judgment Sayings in Q by Brian Han Gregg (Jun 30, 2006) ISBN 3161487508 page 29
127.^ Criteria for Authenticity in Historical-Jesus Research by Stanley E. Porter 2004 ISBN 0567043606 pages 77-78
128.^ a b c d Feldman, Louis H.; Hata, Gōhei, eds. (1987). Josephus, Judaism and Christianity BRILL. ISBN 978-90-04-08554-1. pages 54-57
129.^ a b Maier, Paul L. (December 1995). Josephus, the essential works: a condensation of Jewish antiquities and The Jewish war. Kregel Academic. ISBN 978-0-8254-3260-6 pages 284-285
130.^ Maier, Paul L. (December 1995). Josephus, the essential works: a condensation of Jewish antiquities and The Jewish war. Kregel Academic. ISBN 978-0-8254-3260-6 page 12
131.^ a b c Kostenberger, Andreas J.; Kellum, L. Scott; Quarles, Charles L. (2009). The Cradle, the Cross, and the Crown: An Introduction to the New Testament ISBN 0-8054-4365-7 pages 104-105
132.^ a b Eddy, Paul; Boyd, Gregory (2007). The Jesus Legend: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition. ISBN 0-8010-3114-1 page 129-130
133.^ Painter, John (2005). Just James: The Brother of Jesus in History and Tradition. ISBN 0-567-04191-3 page 137
134.^ Feldman, Louis H.; Hata, Gōhei. Josephus, Judaism and Christianity. BRILL. ISBN 90-04-08554-8. page 56
135.^ Van Voorst, Robert E. (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 83
136.^ Richard Bauckham "FOR WHAT OFFENSE WAS JAMES PUT TO DEATH?" in James the Just and Christian origins by Bruce Chilton, Craig A. Evans 1999 ISBN 90-04-11550-1 pages 199-203
137.^ Painter, John (2005). Just James: The Brother of Jesus in History and Tradition. ISBN 0-567-04191-3 pages 134-141
138.^ Sample quotes from previous references: Van Voorst (ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 83) states that the overwhelming majority of scholars consider both the reference to "the brother of Jesus called Christ" and the entire passage that includes it as authentic." Bauckham (ISBN 90-04-11550-1 pages 199-203) states: "the vast majority have considered it to be authentic". Feldman (ISBN 90-04-08554-8 pages 55-57) states that the authenticity of the Josephus passage on James has been "almost universally acknowledged". Meir (ISBN 978-0-8254-3260-6 pages 108-109) agrees with Feldman that few have questioned the authenticity of the James passage. Setzer (ISBN 0-8006-2680-X pages 108-109) also states that few have questioned its authenticity.
139.^ 'Josephus, Judaism and Christianity by Louis H. Feldman, Gōhei Hata 1997 ISBN 90-04-08554-8 pages 55-57
140.^ Flavius Josephus; Whiston, William; Maier, Paul L. (May 1999). The New Complete Works of Josephus. Kregel Academic. ISBN 0-8254-2948-X page 662
141.^ a b c Schreckenberg, Heinz; Schubert, Kurt (1992a). Jewish Traditions in Early Christian Literature. 2. ISBN 90-232-2653-4 pages 38-41
142.^ Evans, Craig A. (2001). Jesus and His Contemporaries: Comparative Studies ISBN 0-391-04118-5 page 316
143.^ Wansbrough, Henry (2004). Jesus and the oral Gospel tradition. ISBN 0-567-04090-9 page 185
144.^ a b c d e Dunn, James (2003). Jesus remembered ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 page 141
145.^ Wilhelm Schneemelcher, Robert McLachlan Wilson, New Testament Apocrypha: Gospels and Related Writings, page 490 (James Clarke & Co. Ltd, 2003). ISBN 0-664-22721-X
146.^ Feldman, Louis H. (1984). "Flavius Josephus Revisited: The Man, his Writings and his Significance". In Temporini, Hildegard; Haase, Wolfgang. Aufstieg und Niedergang der römischen Welt, Part 2. pp. 763–771. ISBN 3-11-009522-X page 826
147.^ a b Painter, John (2005). Just James: The Brother of Jesus in History and Tradition. ISBN 0-567-04191-3 pages 143-145
148.^ P.E. Easterling, E. J. Kenney (general editors), The Cambridge History of Latin Literature, page 892 (Cambridge University Press, 1982, reprinted 1996). ISBN 0-521-21043-7
149.^ A political history of early Christianity by Allen Brent 2009 ISBN 0-567-03175-6 pages 32-34
150.^ Robert Van Voorst, Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence, Wm. B. Eerdmans, 2000. p 39- 53
151.^ a b Jesus and His Contemporaries: Comparative Studies by Craig A. Evans 2001 ISBN 0-391-04118-5 page 42
152.^ a b Mercer dictionary of the Bible by Watson E. Mills, Roger Aubrey Bullard 2001 ISBN 0-86554-373-9 page 343
153.^ a b Pontius Pilate in History and Interpretation by Helen K. Bond 2004 ISBN 0-521-61620-4 page xi
154.^ a b Tradition and Incarnation: Foundations of Christian Theology by William L. Portier 1993 ISBN 0-8091-3467-5 page 263
155.^ a b c d Robert E. Van Voorst, Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence, Wm. B. Eerdmans, 2000. p 39- 53
156.^ a b Ancient Rome by William E. Dunstan 2010 ISBN 0-7425-6833-4 page 293
157.^ Jesus as a figure in history: how modern historians view the man from Galilee by Mark Allan Powell 1998 ISBN 0-664-25703-8 page 33
158.^ An introduction to the New Testament and the origins of Christianity by Delbert Royce Burkett 2002 ISBN 0-521-00720-8 page 485
159.^ The Cradle, the Cross, and the Crown: An Introduction to the New Testament by Andreas J. Köstenberger, L. Scott Kellum 2009 ISBN 978-0-8054-4365-3 pages 109-110
160.^ Meier, John P., A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, Doubleday: 1991. vol 1: p. 168-171.
161.^ Crossan, John Dominic (1995). Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography. HarperOne. ISBN 0-06-061662-8 page 145
162.^ Ehrman p 212
163.^ F.F. Bruce,Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament, (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1974) p. 23
164.^ Theissen and Merz p.83
165.^ Theissen, Gerd; Merz, Annette (1998). The historical Jesus: a comprehensive guide. Minneapolis: Fortress Press. p. 83. ISBN 978-0-8006-3122-2.
166.^ The Jesus legend: a case for the historical reliability of the synoptic gospels by Paul R. Eddy, et al 2007 ISBN 0-8010-3114-1 pages 181-183
167.^ Clarence W. Mendell, Tacitus: The Man And His Work (Yale University Press/Oxford University Press, 1957) page 219.
168.^ John Wilson Ross, Tacitus and Bracciolini: The Annals Forged In The XVth Century ISBN 978-1-4068-4051-3. Originally published London: Diprose and Bateman, 1878.
169.^ a b Robert Van Voorst Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence 2000 ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 42
170.^ The Deaths of Seneca by James Ker ISBN 0195387031 Oxford Univ Press 2009 page 201
171.^ Boccaccio's Expositions on Dante's Comedy by Giovanni Boccaccio, Michael Papio 2009 ISBN 0802099750 University of Toronto Press page 233, also see PDF file
172.^ Theissen, Gerd, Annette Merz, The historical Jesus: a comprehensive guide, Fortress Press, 1998 pages 72-76
173.^ The Blackwell Companion to Jesus by Delbert Burkett 2010 ISBN 140519362X page 220
174.^ Van Voorst, Robert E. (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 pages 129-130
175.^ In The Cambridge Companion to Jesus by Markus N. A. Bockmuehl 2001 ISBN 0521796784 page 123
176.^ Sanhedrin 43a.
177.^ Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium by Bart Ehrman 2001 ISBN 019512474X page 63
178.^ Jesus as a Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee by Mark Allan Powell (Nov 1, 1998) ISBN 0664257038 page 34
179.^ The Beginnings of Christianity by Howard Clark Kee (Nov 22, 2005) ISBN 0567027414 page 71
180.^ R. T. France The Evidence for Jesus 2006 ISBN 1573833703 page 39
181.^ Jesus Christ in History and Scripture by Edgar V. McKnight 1999 ISBN 0865546770 pages 29-30
182.^ a b c d Evidence of Greek Philosophical Concepts in the Writings of Ephrem the Syrian by Ute Possekel 1999 ISBN 90-429-0759-2 pages 29-30
183.^ a b c d Studying the Historical Jesus: Evaluations of the State of Current Research edited by Bruce Chilton, Craig A. Evans 1998 ISBN 90-04-11142-5 pages 455-457
184.^ a b c d Jesus outside the New Testament: an introduction to the ancient evidence by Robert E. Van Voorst 2000 ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 pages 53-55
185.^ Jesus and His Contemporaries: Comparative Studies by Craig A. Evans 2001 ISBN 978-0-391-04118-9 page 41
186.^ a b Birth of Christianity by John Dominic Crossan 1999 ISBN 0567086682 pages 3-10
187.^ a b c d e f Robert E. Van Voorst, Jesus outside the New Testament: an introduction to the ancient evidence, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, 2000. pp 29-39
188.^ Encyclopedia of the Roman Empire by Matthew Bunson 1994 ISBN 081602135X page 111
189.^ R. T. France. The Evidence for Jesus. (2006). Regent College Publishing ISBN 1-57383-370-3. p. 42
190.^ Eddy, Paul; Boyd, Gregory (2007). The Jesus Legend: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition. ISBN 0-8010-3114-1 pages 166
191.^ The Historical Jesus of the Gospels by Craig S. Keener 2012 ISBN 0802868886 page 66
192.^ Jesus, by Ch. Gugnebert, Translated from the French by S. H. Hooke, University Book, New York, 1956, p. 14
193.^ a b Robert E. Van Voorst, Jesus outside the New Testament, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, 2000. pp 58-64
194.^ a b c d e f Eddy, Paul; Boyd, Gregory (2007). The Jesus Legend: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition. ISBN 0-8010-3114-1 pages 122-126
195.^ Douglas R. Edwards (2004). Religion and society in Roman Palestine: old questions, new approaches. Routledge. pp. 164–. ISBN 978-0-415-30597-6. Retrieved 4 August 2010.
196.^ Henry Chadwick (2003). The Church in ancient society: from Galilee to Gregory the Great. Oxford University Press. pp. 15–. ISBN 978-0-19-926577-0. Retrieved 4 August 2010.
197.^ George J. Brooke (1 May 2005). The Dead Sea scrolls and the New Testament. Fortress Press. pp. 20–. ISBN 978-0-8006-3723-1. Retrieved 4 August 2010.
198.^ Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey by Craig L. Blomberg 2009 ISBN 0805444823 pages 53-54
199.^ Van Voorst, Robert E (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Eerdmans Publishing. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 pages 75-78
200.^ Julius Africanus, Extant Writings XVIII in Ante-Nicene Fathers, ed. A. Roberts and J. Donaldson (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1973) vol. VI, p. 130
201.^ a b c Van Voorst, Robert E. (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 pages 65-68
202.^ a b New Testament Apocrypha, Vol. 1 by Wilhelm Schneemelcher and R. Mcl. Wilson (Dec 1, 1990) ISBN 066422721X pages 501-502
203.^ a b c d e Jesus Christ in History and Scripture by Edgar V. McKnight 1999 ISBN 0865546770 page 38
204.^ a b Victor Furnish in Paul and Jesus edited by Alexander J. M. Wedderburn 2004 (Academic Paperback) ISBN 0567083969 pages 43-44
205.^ a b Pheme Perkins, Reading the New Testament: An Introduction (Paulist Press, 1988), ISBN 0809129396 pp. 4-7.
206.^ a b c d e f g Edward Adams in The Cambridge Companion to Jesus by Markus N. A. Bockmuehl 2001 ISBN 0521796784 pages 94-96
207.^ Peter Gorday in Eusebius, Christianity, and Judaism by Harold W. Attridge 1992 ISBN 0814323618 pages 139-141
208.^ a b c Jesus Remembered: Christianity in the Making by James D. G. Dunn (Jul 29, 2003) ISBN 0802839312 page 143
209.^ a b c d James D. G. Dunn "Paul's understanding of the death of Jesus" in Sacrifice and Redemption edited by S. W. Sykes (Dec 3, 2007) Cambridge University Press ISBN 052104460X pages 35-36
210.^ Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey by Craig L. Blomberg 2009 ISBN 0805444823 pages 441-442
211.^ Encyclopedia of Theology: A Concise Sacramentum Mundi by Karl Rahner 2004 ISBN 0860120066 page 31
212.^ a b c d e f g Jesus according to Paul by Victor Paul Furnish 1994 ISBN 0521458242 pages 19-20
213.^ Jesus & the Rise of Early Christianity: A History of New Testament Times by Paul Barnett 2002 ISBN 0830826998 pages 95-96
214.^ Paul and Scripture by Steve Moyise (Jul 1, 2010) ISBN 080103924X page 5
215.^ Paul, Antioch and Jerusalem by Nicholas Taylor 1991 ISBN 1850753318 page 177
216.^ The Tapestry of Early Christian Discourse by Vernon K. Robbins (Oct 10, 1996) ISBN 0415139988 pages 74-75
217.^ Jesus Remembered: Christianity in the Making by James D. G. Dunn (Jul 29, 2003) ISBN 0802839312 page 507
218.^ Galatians by Frank J. Matera 2007 ISBN 0814659721 Pages 65-66
219.^ Galatians by Martinus C. de Boer 2011 ISBN 0664221238 page 121
220.^ 1 Corinthians by Richard Oster 1995 ISBN 0899006337 page 353
221.^ Apostle Paul: His Life and Theology by Udo Schnelle (Nov 1, 2005) ISBN 0801027969 pages 329-330
222.^ a b c Can We Trust the New Testament? by George Albert Wells 2003 ISBN 0812695674 pages 49-50
223.^ a b 'Jesus of Nazareth: An independent historian's account of his life and teaching by Maurice Casey page 39-40
224.^ a b The Evidence for Jesus by James D. G. Dunn (Jan 1, 1986) ISBN 0664246982 page 29
225.^ a b c Paul's Letter to the Romans by Colin G. Kruse (Jul 1, 2012) ISBN 0802837433 pages 41-42
226.^ a b c The Blackwell Companion to The New Testament edited by David E. Aune 2010 ISBN 1405108258 page 424
227.^ a b c Worship in the Early Church by Ralph P. Martin 1975 ISBN 0802816134 pages 57-58
228.^ Neufeld, The Earliest Christian Confessions (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1964) p. 47 Reginald H. Fuller, The Formation of the Resurrection Narratives (New York: Macmillan, 1971) p. 10
Wolfhart Pannenberg, Jesus – God and Man translated Lewis Wilkins and Duane Pribe (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1968) p. 90
Oscar Cullmann, The Earlychurch: Studies in Early Christian History and Theology, ed. A. J. B. Higgins (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1966) p. 64
Hans Conzelmann, 1 Corinthians, translated James W. Leitch (Philadelphia: Fortress 1969) p. 251
Bultmann, Theology of the New Testament vol. 1 pp. 45, 80–82, 293
R. E. Brown, The Virginal Conception and Bodily Resurrection of Jesus (New York: Paulist Press, 1973) pp. 81, 92

229.^ see Wolfhart Pannenberg, Jesus – God and Man translated Lewis Wilkins and Duane Pribe (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1968)p. 90; Oscar Cullmann, The Early church: Studies in Early Christian History and Theology, ed. A. J. B. Higgins (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1966) p. 66–66; R. E. Brown, The Virginal Conception and Bodily Resurrection of Jesus (New York: Paulist Press, 1973) pp. 81; Thomas Sheehan, First Coming: How the Kingdom of God Became Christianity (New York: Random House, 1986 pp. 110, 118; Ulrich Wilckens, Resurrection translated A. M. Stewart (Edinburgh: Saint Andrew, 1977) p. 2; Hans Grass, Ostergeschen und Osterberichte, Second Edition (Gottingen: Vandenhoeck und Ruprecht, 1962) p96; Grass favors the origin in Damascus.
230.^ Hans von Campenhausen, "The Events of Easter and the Empty Tomb," in Tradition and Life in the Church (Philadelphia: Fortress, 1968) p. 44
231.^ Archibald Hunter, Works and Words of Jesus (1973) p. 100
232.^ a b Creeds of the Churches, Third Edition by John H. Leith (Jan 1, 1982) ISBN 0804205264 page 12
233.^ Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey by Craig L. Blomberg 2009 ISBN 0-8054-4482-3 pages 441-442
234.^ The encyclopedia of Christianity, Volume 4 by Erwin Fahlbusch, 2005 ISBN 978-0-8028-2416-5 pages 52-56
235.^ The Bible Knowledge Background Commentary by Craig A. Evans 2003 ISBN 0-7814-3868-3 pages 465-477
236.^ New Testament Theology by Paul Haffner 2008 ISBN 88-902268-0-3 page 135
237.^ A Guide to the Gospels by W. Graham Scroggie 1995 ISBN 0-8254-3744-X page 128
238.^ a b The Gospel of John by Francis J. Moloney, Daniel J. Harrington 1998 ISBN 0-8146-5806-7 page 3
239.^ a b Interpreting Gospel Narratives: Scenes, People, and Theology by Timothy Wiarda 2010 ISBN 0-8054-4843-8 pages 75-78
240.^ Matthew by David L. Turner 2008 ISBN 0-8010-2684-9 page 613
241.^ Sanders, E. P. The historical figure of Jesus ISBN 0140144994 Penguin, 1993. p. 3
242.^ Christology: A Biblical, Historical, and Systematic Study of Jesus by Gerald O'Collins 2009 ISBN 0-19-955787-X pages 1-3
243.^ Eerdmans Commentary on the Bible edited by James D. G. Dunn (Nov 19, 2003) ISBN 0802837115 pages 1064-1065
244.^ Meier, John P. (1991). A Marginal Jew. New York, New York: Doubleday. pp. v.2 955–6. ISBN 0-385-46993-4.
245.^ Harris, Stephen L., Understanding the Bible. Palo Alto: Mayfield. 1985. "The Gospels" p. 266-268
246.^ The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: Q-Z by Geoffrey W. Bromiley (Jan 31, 1995) ISBN 0802837840 pages 1-3
247.^ The New Testament: History, Literature, Religion by Gerd Theissen 2003 ISBN page 31
248.^ Three Views on the Origins of the Synoptic Gospels by Robert L. Thomas 2002 ISBN 0825438381 page 35
249.^ The New Testament: History, Literature, Religion by Gerd Theissen 2003 ISBN page x
250.^ Van Voorst, Robert E. (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 7
251.^ a b c Richard Bauckham Jesus and the Eyewitnesses (Eerdmans, 2006), ISBN 0802831621 pp. 15–21.
252.^ a b The Early Christian Church: Volume 2, The Second Christian Century by Philip Carrington (Aug 11, 2011) ISBN 0521157382 pages 22-23
253.^ The archeology of the New Testament by Jack Finegan (Jan 1, 1981) ISBN 0709910061 pages 42-43
254.^ Interpreting the Gospel of John by Gary M. Burge (Sep 1, 1998) ISBN 0801010217 pages 52-53
255.^ Eusebius: The Church History by Eusebius and Paul L. Maier (May 31, 2007) ISBN 082543307X page 119
256.^ a b Richard Bauckham, Jesus and the Eyewitnesses (Cambridge: Eerdmans, 2006), pp. 53-54
257.^ Richard Bauckham, Jesus and the Eyewitnesses (Cambridge: Eerdmans, 2006), pp. 53l.
258.^ a b Van Voorst, Robert E (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Eerdmans Publishing. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 215-217
259.^ a b c The Historical Jesus of the Gospels by Craig S. Keener 2012 ISBN 0802868886 pages 52-54
260.^ a b c Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium by Bart D. Ehrman 2001 ISBN 019512474X pages 72-78
261.^ The Book of Revelation by Robert H. Mounce 1997 ISBN 0802825370 page 11
262.^ The Symbolic Jesus by William Edward Arnal 2005 ISBN 1845530071 pages 60-70
263.^ a b c Van Voorst, Robert E (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Eerdmans Publishing. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 183

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I did not say ALL priests are pedeophiles. Get it right. i said they all knew what was going on. If you deny that fact then you haver you head in sand!!!!

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


Do you actually know what you posted?? Because if you did, you would realize that in all that, there is no proof of Jesus actually existing. Nice blatant regurgitation though.

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
I think this whole thing goes into semantics. Look up how many people think they have been visited by "angels", look at the similarities, and see if people claimed to have seen ships with wings, how the alien thing would not be a big thing.

They say "spirit" you see "ghost", they say "Angel" you say "Alien", its the difference between words and nothing else. The stories are similar and people raise their hands in the air, when someone says that an angel visited them, you say that you saw an alien and you are bonkers.

Peace, NRE.

Right that is really the point of the thread. How our belief system is programmed. Maybe the whole alien thing is going to get better and people wont associate nutso, kook, bonkers, delusional, etc in the near future. I tell my children believe nothing you hear until you can verify it for yourself. Many just believe because someone told them it was truth.
Again this was not to take away anyones belief in Jesus or their religious beliefs. Growing up catholic this is what I believed as gospel. As i got older i am open to new ideas of what we are and who we are. i also believe Jesus would look upon us and say "WTF is wrong with you people. I didnt die for this. Fighting and killing in my name. You guys totally missed the point!!! (shaking his head)"

reply to post by acmpnsfal


Eye witnesses, lol.
documented? and i don't mean in the bible.

While I don't have a problem with possibility of aliens existing, I do have issues with them coming here as they would have to violate the laws of physics. What you stated is basically equivalent to me asking why people who believe in aliens have a problem with the laws of physics.
[/quote
]reply to post by AQuestion

=================================================================================
But that's actually the point.

We know so little about physics and the whole big picture of what is out there.

We reason with our limited abilities through the five senses. Anyone with a paranormal experience see this first hand that "something else" is going on here then we can ever imagine. God, alien abduction - it's the same thing to me and that is who are we to know what exists in all truthfulness being we are severly limited with our perception of things. I discount nothing anymore.

Why do people believe in the story of Jesus but cannot even acknowledge that Aliens abduct people???

Because people are stupid

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


And the proof in that is where exactly? My statement was correct.

I guess, it is up to each individual to believe Jesus was the Son of God or not. What is mind blowing is the people that question that he was even here. I mean this is like the 4th thread ( I don't usually go in Religion forums)I have seen people say things like "if he was here" and such. I mean common its not like his existence is not documented...To me it just silly for anyone to think he was not here. To the Jews and Buddhist he is considered a mere profit, but the fact that he did exist is not argued. Anyway, I personally believe in UFO's, and Ghost Paranormal, but I also believe in Jesus. The Vatican (I am not Catholic) does not deny that UFO's may exist, and I have heard many other pastors and such say that Aliens could certainly exist. Now you could start a whole debate on the paranormal thing with me, well how can you be a ghost if you you go to heaven, type stuff. Lets just not do that though please...

some alien eat humans

Originally posted by Renegade2283
reply to post by ZetaRediculian

 

Do you actually know what you posted?? Because if you did, you would realize that in all that, there is no proof of Jesus actually existing. Nice blatant regurgitation though.

How so? I guess you could say the same about any historical person from that time.