Why do people believe in the story of Jesus but cannot even acknowledge that Aliens abduct people???

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


Haha I like the mindset but you better watch out because if Christianity is correct by the time it is proven to be 100% true(coming of Christ) then it's too late to decide you want to believe!!

Originally posted by sd211212
Just watched the Travis Walton story on Paranormal witness. I have never seen what the other eyewitnesses believed or heard their stories. Travis has been made out to be a hoaxter, liar, delusional etc... Watching the emotions from his co-workers was moving. Especially the boss and the shy guy. dont know their names but apparently this event traumatized each and every one of them. I thought the Sheriff actually finally believed these guys but to this day he does not . He still believes it was made up and Travis hid out for a few days. Now they should get an academy award for that show. They showed raw emotion. So back to the Sheriff. Im sure if i were to ask if he believed everything in the bible and the story of Jesus he would say of course. Jesus walked the earth, cured people, died and rose, came back to the disciples etc... but aliens nope!!!!!!!! Its wild. If i had not had the experienvces I have had in my life them i would be skeptical too. Im skeptical of the jesus story the way it has been told deciphered whatever. It isnt even a eye witness testimony it is stories handed down over generation and then written. Why do people have such a hard time believing paranormal stuff when in all essence Jesus, if he existed, was an ALIEN????????????

edit on 24-10-2012 by sd211212 because: (no reason given)

Why do people believe the story about Jesus but not in the paranormal or aliens, etc.?

Very simple..... over tens of centuries crotchety old men with pointy hats and regal robes have been telling us that first the old and then the new testaments are the written word and history of God and his son here on earth.

Paranormal events and aliens and UFO's and sightings and abductions and disclosure, blah, blah, blah on the other hand are championed by hucksters out to make a buck....

But you say that religion is also out to make a buck? But of course, it's only because those pointy hats and regal robes and magnificent "houses of the holy" (great album by Led Zepplin) cost a fortune to buy, build and or maintain.....

reply to post by TheSparrowSings


Dear TheSparrowSings,

I saw your edit. I never claimed that one was WAY more believable than the other. What I did do was list my questions regarding aliens and they have yet to be addressed because this thread is insincere. One of my questions was why do aliens need to conduct endless physically invasive tests on humans when we can do it with machines? Another is why haven't they contacted us using the airwaves. Why wouldn't they have done as we did and send out signals? These are fair questions and directly address the OP and he never bothered to address them.

I don't believe that this "God", whoever he may have been, created us from nothing. Human beings, if created, where done so through the use of the Earth (Earth based homo-erectus) and a combination of alien DNA (through splicing. If interested, ask me about why humans have less chromosomes than ape.) So the idea of Gods spirit just pulsing down from the heavens and magically putting life inside of Mary is not logical at all. The OP is correct, in my opinion, in saying that Jesus was an alien. Hell, it seems likely that all humans are of some alien origin. Or, is this, as equally questionable as a story of taking a rib from a man and growing a woman out of it. Or maybe Genesis is a metaphor for what I just said.

Well, it actually does say that Adam came from the earth and was formed and I will try and be more logical in the future. Let us consider stem cells, our own stem cells can be used to create anything, we see this in science now. Would it be possible that God effected Eve's stem cells to make her pregnant? Recently, it was announced that the DNA of two women and one man were combined to make a embryo (though we know that at least two others were born using the same technology)?

As for the DNA of apes, there are other things that have more DNA than humans, the issue is one of complexity over quantity. DNA is made up of certain proteins, the complexity comes from the combinations. A comparison would be this. 123123123 versus 123456789, the more evolved being would most likely have the more variety in the DNA structure as the DNA would be doing more varied things, I believe.

reply to post by sd211212


I think you make some valid points. The same could be said for schizophrenia, ghost hunters, and preachers. It's ok for a man of god to say "god said this...or that to me" but no one reaaaally believes him even though they say hallelujah.

It's ok for tv shows like ghost hunters or discussions with witnesses who claim to have heard voices or seen apparitions. But if you tell the doctor you're hearing voices or seeing apparitions, they might run some tests on you.

I get you. I've thought about this myself.

reply to post by AQuestion

I am open to the existence of aliens, atheist who are scientists say that it violates the laws of physics. Going faster than the speed of light for one;

Being and atheist or a scientist does not make their opinions more relevant, facts, proper logic deduction or statistical significance for me suffices to illuminate any path...

The only issue with the speed of light (and the violation of the laws of physic that you mention) has only a very narrow impact on the alien issue. It only creates a barrier on the time of travel from another star system into ours, even today NASA is studying the possibility of a multi-generational ship and then there are many ways to go around our limited understanding of physics, many other theories exist from interdimentional, to even another Earth bound intelligence even the concept of a breakaway civilization (contemporanean or in the past)...

You state that you haven't met real Christians

No I said I have met very few real Christians...

state that people who have spiritual beliefs have a decreased capacity for critical thinking

Not spiritual, religious beliefs (not exactly the same). What I said is that people with strong religious beliefs have often a diminished capacity for critical thinking. I would even get deeper and state that some scientific areas are intrinsically incompatible to most religious beliefs (at least of the major religions).

If I believe in Jesus, am I also required to believe in Bigfoot and if so must I also believe in fairies, where does it stop. To believe one thing does not require that I believe everything.

You do not need to go that far and I did not state that a reduced capacity for critical thinking opens one to any type of new belief system, it is cumulative.

I have no intention of eroding anyones faith (again I respect that some people benefit and even require it). In the next paragraph I will call attention in more detail to what I was referring.

Consider on all that is expected for a Christian to believe (without other recourse than faith itself), from Angels, Demons, Limbo, Heaven and Hell, the resurrection, saints (not the capacity for the deed but the full implication of sainthood), payer, soul, afterlife, immaculate conception etc and so forth (I know that some depend on ones denomination) the simple capacity to manage all this types of complexity without challenge or erosion to their belief system can only be accomplished by a significative suppression of critical thinking, a close analysis of the issues and their full implications (even at times seemingly logic conundrums) would make the belief system extremely hard to survive the full scrutiny. This of course would even be more exacerbated when linked to an organization that one could also examine and see faults, not only in methodology but in the setting of priorities and in acting accordingly with what is preached.

Originally posted by Pressthebutton
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I see what you are saying friend and I am not denying it. Although through that method they introduce some possible error, because what happens when a child who is receiving the stories isn't paying any attention to what he is being told and etc. It could possibly have an impact. This is all merely speculation and "what if's"I really am not putting down aliens or Christian beliefs and I agree with you to an extent. Thanks for the thought

Dear Pressthebutton,

Not just anyone was allowed to repeat the story and be trusted and they had to be verified by others and I am not saying that proves the story. It is however important when saying why it was not just some story that got changed around. In fact, the bible has less variation than Plato's Republic and they were written around the same time. The biggest difference is that the believers of the day required that the story of the bible not be changed.

Actually, of all the "alien encounters", the story that the OP began with of Travis Walton, that guy seems to have stuck to his story pretty darn close for decades and it is worthy of consideration. I personally believe that something happened to Travis Walton and his friends; but, that does not mean that it was alien in the sense we use the term.

There were many skills that the ancients had that we lost because technology simplified things. If we look at today, people are no longer taught to write in cursive (handwriting) because we use keyboards. In Korea they taught kids to use their fingers in a manner similar to an abacus and they could add, subtract, multiply and divide faster than a calculator could be used. I would be surprised if that is still taught. As technology advanced and we could use machines to move large stones, we forgot how we used to do it. It is now believed that the giant statues of Easter Island were basically rolled back and forth (walked) to where they went, there is a thread on that somewhere on ATS. Peace.

reply to post by TheSparrowSings


Yeah, I agree with you on that but I was pointing to the distant past and creation of writing which many would credit to a belief in a creator. Mankind wants to know where they come from and most definitely both ideas, the creation myth and the idea of other life forms are strong unknowns and a likely answer.

I don't understand why both sides can't see this and those who believe in one and not the other often point to ridicule to answer another's opposing opinions.

I'm open-minded as I have seen UFO's which by definition is unknown objects. What were they, spaceships, government aircraft... who knows but they were here long before an airplane created by known mankind knowledge existed, at least that's my belief. God likely created the creators of those unknowns...

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by SpearMint

 

We do not know that Jesus existed, if he did exist he was probably just an ordinary man

I'm pretty sure he was a historical figure and yes, I think was jutst a man. From what I understand, he is not just mentioned in the bible but also in Roman records as a real person. Thats just what I remember. could be wrong.

Don't forget that Jesus was a popular name and one could have influenced the other, but it's quite possible he existed, not as he's portrayed though. If he did then he probably did something people couldn't explain, and they thought he has powers or was the son of God.

I have no idea how popular his name was. I just think there are references to him outside the bible. I'm not going to chase sources or anything but I'm open to learning about this. My personal feelings about Jesus the guy that could perform miracles and such is that they are more or less stories to sell the religion. My personal feelings about Jesus the spiritual teacher is different and more meaningful. My personal feelings about aliens is that they are mythological.

Also, why do people always assume God is the Christian god or the Hindu god if that's where the person lives. Can you not see this world is very huge and there are people of all faiths upon it. It irks me to see people attack another person's beliefs without even knowing what they believe in... assumptions, PAH!

I mean, haven't the Chinese been seeing an increased amount of UFO's lately... go attack their religion why don't you.

reply to post by Panic2k11


Dear Panic2k11,

Consider on all that is expected for a Christian to believe (without other recourse than faith itself), from Angels, Demons, Limbo, Heaven and Hell, the resurrection, saints (not the capacity for the deed but the full implication of sainthood), payer, soul, afterlife, immaculate conception etc and so forth (I know that some depend on ones denomination) the simple capacity to manage all this types of complexity without challenge or erosion to their belief system can only be accomplished by a significative suppression of critical thinking, a close analysis of the issues and their full implications (even at times seemingly logic conundrums) would make the belief system extremely hard to survive the full scrutiny. This of course would even be more exacerbated when linked to an organization that one could also examine and see faults, not only in methodology but in the setting of priorities and in acting accordingly with what is preached.

I have to disagree with you, these things you mentioned do not mean salvation. Can someone be saved if they do not believe in Angels, the answer is Yes. That is not the unforgivable sin that I am aware of. I will provide a short answer. The name Jesus Christ means God's Forgiveness or Salvation upon the earth. It means that we believe that he has sent his spirit to save us from our imperfection. If we accept that forgiveness then we will forgive others, that is accepting Christ. It says that many will call his name and he say he never knew them and he said why, he says it is because they did not love one another. That is all that is required to be believed. Not half as complex as you make it.

If the story of Moses said that he wore a blue robe and we found out today that what they called blue then was really read or even that it was a typo, getting it wrong would not mean you could not be saved. Now, the New Testament says that if you get everything right; but, do not love and forgive one another then you are not saved. That is the essence of what must be believed according to the bible. You don't have to believe the bible. It doesn't require one to leave their brain outside the church, we can take it inside with us.

reply to post by AQuestion


For you questions to the OP, I hope he comes back and addresses them. I don't believe in writing a thread that I don't want to comment on and try to answer the questions people pose for me. They are, in fact, really good questions in regards to his OP. I do have to say, should the alien be abducting to take genetic samples to further a hybridization, then the idea of invasive testing is not really a question. I can see why it would be done in that manner, for how else would they do it.

I found your statement

A comparison would be this. 123123123 versus 123456789, the more evolved being would most likely have the more variety in the DNA structure as the DNA would be doing more varied things, I believe.

Very interesting. In regards to a hybridization type creation by a "God" or (whatever one wants to believe in) In order to insert DNA to create a hybrid of an ape-like species and one that is similar, yet different enough, that physical breeding is not possible. We would need to splice DNA, correct, splicing the DNA of the ape-like creature and fitting DNA from another entity into it. This, would I think, create something that is extremely close to Earth based life but with slight variety.

I don't believe in a Darwinian model of evolution. It is clear that something is different about human beings from our sudden appearance to our differences from our nearest ancestors. Now this could be attributed to a creator being (which I believe is likely to be of extraterrestrial origin). My thoughts are de-railing the thread, though, because as far as the belief in Jesus vs Abduction, I think both are equally believable given they are based on testimony.

reply to post by TheSparrowSings


Dear TheSparrowPosts,

Very interesting. In regards to a hybridization type creation by a "God" or (whatever one wants to believe in) In order to insert DNA to create a hybrid of an ape-like species and one that is similar, yet different enough, that physical breeding is not possible. We would need to splice DNA, correct, splicing the DNA of the ape-like creature and fitting DNA from another entity into it. This, would I think, create something that is extremely close to Earth based life but with slight variety. I don't believe in a Darwinian model of evolution. It is clear that something is different about human beings from our sudden appearance to our differences from our nearest ancestors. Now this could be attributed to a creator being (which I believe is likely to be of extraterrestrial origin). My thoughts are de-railing the thread, though, because as far as the belief in Jesus vs Abduction, I think both are equally believable given they are based on testimony.

I will try not to get metaphysical. Let us say that God started with one thing, a noise, a sound, a word. What if all he knew was a word and he were alone, he would be all knowing. What if then he interpreted his name as his identity "I Am". What if then he found that the variation in his feelings somehow he classified as variations in that sound and then found the world in a grain of sand? From one, everything and he just kept readjusting the pieces. I think that was too metaphysical. What if all things came from three things, a nucleus and proton and an electron and the combinations were limitless. A universe of limitless variation, some enjoyed more than others. This is one of the very reasons that I can deny that aliens probably exist and I am most definitely a believer in Christ. I don't think that my being a Christian means I must also believe in aliens, it just so happens that I do believe there are probably aliens, they might be bugs they might be more dinosaurs, I assume it is limitless and lasts till the end of it's ability to find variation. Darwin would agree with that. He said that the lack of diversity is what increased the likelihood of a species.

I think this whole thing goes into semantics. Look up how many people think they have been visited by "angels", look at the similarities, and see if people claimed to have seen ships with wings, how the alien thing would not be a big thing.

They say "spirit" you see "ghost", they say "Angel" you say "Alien", its the difference between words and nothing else. The stories are similar and people raise their hands in the air, when someone says that an angel visited them, you say that you saw an alien and you are bonkers.

Peace, NRE.

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
I think this whole thing goes into semantics. Look up how many people think they have been visited by "angels", look at the similarities, and see if people claimed to have seen ships with wings, how the alien thing would not be a big thing.

They say "spirit" you see "ghost", they say "Angel" you say "Alien", its the difference between words and nothing else. The stories are similar and people raise their hands in the air, when someone says that an angel visited them, you say that you saw an alien and you are bonkers.

Peace, NRE.

Wise words.

reply to post by AQuestion


I'm bitting more than I wanted. But lets go down that path since it still goes toward the topic of the thread, belief systems, credence and incompatibilities ...

I take by you last reply that you are not a Catholic Christian, or a more popular type of denomination, hence your capacity for reduction the general and more convoluted structure into a more basic belief system but harder for me to fully relate in dialog..

The name Jesus Christ means God's Forgiveness or Salvation upon the earth. It means that we believe that he has sent his spirit to save us from our imperfection.

Does that imply that before the concept of Jesus Christ become prevalent all humans would have been unsaved and imperfections (do you mean freewill ?).

I would like you to define "us" ? If this derails into a creationist view I will not be interested in pursuing the dialog since inability for critical thinking would be, to me, demonstrated by default and this would go far beyond the scope of this thread (feel free to start one on that issue)

"to save us" means the belief in spirit (soul) and salvation (meaning from a consequence, a punishment, hell or a similar construct and the opposite a haven, a prize, Heaven). It seems to me that you are adhering to most items I had mentioned before. Considering how Jesus Christ became the "Saviour" (this includes intervening God, immaculate conception and Angels) the complexity starts to emerge as I stated.

That is all that is required to be believed. Not half as complex as you make it.

This argument then becomes demonstratively false.

do not love and forgive one another then you are not saved. That is the essence of what must be believed according to the bible. You don't have to believe the bible. It doesn't require one to leave their brain outside the church, we can take it inside with us.

I understand that that is the cornerstone of you belief and I share it. Love and forgiveness are concepts, as such they can have many interpretations. I love and marvel at all the universe and to me most individual actions are ultimately irrelevant, I have no negative feelings towards others or a need to execute any punishment myself. At the same time I do not believe in most of what you do starting with the concept of soul or that I need be saved (I'm fortunate to have very few regrets in life) I agree and act according to your core belief without any expectation or bargain (do x to obtain y).

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
I think this whole thing goes into semantics. Look up how many people think they have been visited by "angels", look at the similarities, and see if people claimed to have seen ships with wings, how the alien thing would not be a big thing.

They say "spirit" you see "ghost", they say "Angel" you say "Alien", its the difference between words and nothing else. The stories are similar and people raise their hands in the air, when someone says that an angel visited them, you say that you saw an alien and you are bonkers.

Peace, NRE.

yes.words for different mythical beings have different connotations. good point

reply to post by AQuestion


You just described to me, what I read as, God is consciousness. Or God is the universe creating, re-creating, and discovering itself. Nicely put regardless of your intent or if I misread it. Also I don't think there is anything wrong with believing in Christ, after all his teachings where wise, I often like to think that Jesus may be a story of multiple individuals who where well schooled in all the mysteries of that day. Teachers to the people and wise in understanding how to overcome darkness and acknowledge spirit. Or an alien. *lol* It is always possible if he existed as one man and all that was written about him was true in a literal sense.

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I'm bitting more than I wanted. But lets go down that path since it still goes toward the topic of the thread, belief systems, credence and incompatibilities ...

I take by you last reply that you are not a Catholic Christian, or a more popular type of denomination, hence your capacity for reduction the general and more convoluted structure into a more basic belief system but harder for me to fully relate in dialog..

The name Jesus Christ means God's Forgiveness or Salvation upon the earth. It means that we believe that he has sent his spirit to save us from our imperfection.

Does that imply that before the concept of Jesus Christ become prevalent all humans would have been unsaved and imperfections (do you mean freewill ?).

I would like you to define "us" ? If this derails into a creationist view I will not be interested in pursuing the dialog since inability for critical thinking would be, to me, demonstrated by default and this would go far beyond the scope of this thread (feel free to start one on that issue)

"to save us" means the belief in spirit (soul) and salvation (meaning from a consequence, a punishment, hell or a similar construct and the opposite a haven, a prize, Heaven). It seems to me that you are adhering to most items I had mentioned before. Considering how Jesus Christ became the "Saviour" (this includes intervening God, immaculate conception and Angels) the complexity starts to emerge as I stated.

That is all that is required to be believed. Not half as complex as you make it.

This argument then becomes demonstratively false.

do not love and forgive one another then you are not saved. That is the essence of what must be believed according to the bible. You don't have to believe the bible. It doesn't require one to leave their brain outside the church, we can take it inside with us.

I understand that that is the cornerstone of you belief and I share it. Love and forgiveness are concepts, as such they can have many interpretations. I love and marvel at all the universe and to me most individual actions are ultimately irrelevant, I have no negative feelings towards others or a need to execute any punishment myself. At the same time I do not believe in most of what you do starting with the concept of soul or that I need be saved (I'm fortunate to have very few regrets in life) I agree and act according to your core belief without any expectation or bargain (do x to obtain y).

Dear Panik2k11,

As to your first statement, I am a Christian, I have never claimed a denomination and left the Catholic Church at 12. Yep, no Catholic; but, that doesn't mean I think they are wrong about everything. You mention my ability to provide simple and clear answers (or reduce) as confusing; but, every thought is simple once you actually understand it. It takes more effort to lie than to tell the truth, that is why the truth sets us free. As you are the one struggling to have a dialog when you admit my words are simple, the problem is with your over complicating the simple. That is not meant as an attack, the bible is simple, yet, we can learn very complex things from it if we allow ourselves to see deeper. Babies learn what babies learn and adults can learn more from the same story.

You ask if people were not saved before Christ manifested himself on earth. Of course they could. The New Testament discusses how Jesus was talking to Moses. We should assume Moses saved, should we not? We are also told of Enoch and Elijah, "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him". We can use the word Rapture; but, he left to be with God, he did not go to hell. The Old Testament states that none have an excuse for saying they did not know God as he is in everything. Guess what we also do not have an excuse for not loving and forgiving others. You know, love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. Love and forgiveness, the heart of Jesus or at least he said so.

When I said "us", I just meant humans at a minimum as that is what I am.

You see hell as a punishment and heaven as a reward, I do not think of it in those terms. Hell and heaven are choices. Hell is to be your own God (Care about you more than others) and Heaven (Being with God and other sentient beings). Here is where the choice part comes in, if you are the only thing that matters to you then eventually you are all you have. We are promised what we treasure. I am still not finding a need to be complicated because the questions do not require such.

If you actually think about what I said, you will see how wrong you are in what you conclude because you filled in the blanks of what you were understanding with dogma that is wrong. You were taught bad dogma, don't assume the rest of us believe it.

Originally posted by TheSparrowSings
reply to post by AQuestion

 

You just described to me, what I read as, God is consciousness. Or God is the universe creating, re-creating, and discovering itself. Nicely put regardless of your intent or if I misread it. Also I don't think there is anything wrong with believing in Christ, after all his teachings where wise, I often like to think that Jesus may be a story of multiple individuals who where well schooled in all the mysteries of that day. Teachers to the people and wise in understanding how to overcome darkness and acknowledge spirit. Or an alien. *lol* It is always possible if he existed as one man and all that was written about him was true in a literal sense.

Dear TheSparrowSings,

God is consciousness, that is what it says. How can he/she be all knowing if not conscious? God is the universe, the word universe means all that is and God is all that is, that is what the bible says. He is all, he is all knowing, he is all powerful, he is all and we came from him. We are less than all, we are his creation, a part, not all. The book of Genesis says that Adam came from God and Adam does not seem that bright. Yet, man has certainly learned much and grown, we are not static and can teach one another. We as humanity grow, we make mistakes and change and grow. A species set on it's own to prove itself. Some species die and we have not. We are evolved beings. If God created any form of evolution even if limited to individual specie, shouldn't we still be able to increase in variety and see if we can go the next step?