This thread is for you!

Ya....you!

No no, not you....you!

It's time we had a talk. I know it's been pretty hectic around here with the elections, debates and such, but we need to have a heart to heart.

Now I've read the things you have been saying in various threads about the attacks on US embassies, the ambassadors and how new "information" proves that Obama is incompetent. That's all fine and dandy. You should be concerned about the welfare of other Americans and our assets.

What I would like to know is how you became such an expert on diplomacy, how to instantly react in such a tense situation and never make a poor decision. Really. I'd like to know. I know for sure that I am not an expert in foreign relations or crisis management, but there must be hundreds of people on ATS that have all the answers and are willing to ridicule the Obama administration because they did not react the way you "experts" find adequate.

What's that? You're not an expert?

Could have fooled me. You sure do seem to have all the right answers. How did you come to your conclusions then?

No answer?

Well I think I have a pretty good Idea.

"Hindsight"

Ahh Hindsight. A useful tool we can take advantage of to look back on our past experiences and learn from our mistakes...or take note of the successes. Or, an expedient way to ridicule those that you politically disagree with when all of the facts come out long after the dust has settled.

What I see happening is that you decided, since you disagree with Obama's politics, to take advantage of that hindsight to mount your arrogant high-horse and run around the threads like a 21st century "Chicken Little" over this entire debacle. I'm glad your concerned, as we all should be, but do you think it is intellectually honest to hold Obama to criteria that none of our presidents could maintain....Republican or Democrat?

I'd really like to know what a president Bush or Romney would have done. Would they decide at the first word of an attack on the embassy to mount a mighty force to invade the area? Or would they have just dropped a nuke on the area and scorched the land? Either way, those four Americans would have still died. Unfortunately, there was no way to stop that. And do you really think Obama was walking around the Oval Office wringing his hands in satisfaction that these Americans were meeting a horrible end?

Get real!

You know, I always thought it was best to get all the information before you make a rash, and potentially disastrous mistake. But it seems that you just want us to shoot first and sort out the bodies afterwards. Sounds good when you're playing Sabotage in a tense game of COD, but it doesn't work when real people are involved. You can't just respawn in the next round!

Let's stop trying to insinuate some sort of moral or diplomatic superiority over the choices Obama made because in the end...you don't know jack! Neither do the people on the Right that are taking full advantage of this. You, and them, are just blowing smoke up all of our asses because of politics! It may work on the dumb masses, but many of us on ATS can see right through the bull and find your tactics to be more of spit in the face to those that died than the perceived inability of the Obama administration to stop it.

Don't forget that your reaction to this event is setting a precedent. What happens when the same thing happens on a Republican's watch? Will you hold them to the same criteria, or will you somehow find a way to justify their inability or refusal to knee-jerk their way out of a situation? Eventually, you will be put in that situation. Let's hope you aren't a hypocrite.



So let's end our conversation with a handshake.



I still love ya, but just understand that there are no winners in the game you are playing and it doesn't make anyone more apt to support your political ideology when you take advantage of such a tragic event. It just makes you look like a heartless, partisan hack.

People think if they watch TV and read news articles that they are somehow educated enough to fully grasp the complexity of politics.

Politicians sell "just enough" information to give people a false sense of understanding. It's amazing at how people just parrot back what they've been told by their favorite candidate.

I admit to fallen for that tactic at times, we're all only human. I try, however, to educate myself beyond what the spinsters, pundits, and talking heads tell me on TV.

Now, I'm not saying you can't have an opinion unless you have a degree in politics or economics ... but I think we all have a duty and obligation to try and educate ourselves.

Haven't you realized it yet? ATS is home to every genius on the internet. They save the world every other day, solve global political problems before lunchtime, and expose secret global agendas all before the sun sets. Speculation, conjuncture, and opinion are the rules of ATS. Pure entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. If you believe anything you have read on here you might wanna schedule an appointment with your neurologist.

reply to post by TheLonewolf


So you're telling me that those guys on here aren't going to really develop their free energy device after all?

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
reply to post by TheLonewolf

 

So you're telling me that those guys on here aren't going to really develop their free energy device after all?

Only in their contrived fantasy world. I'm not saying that such a device is impossible, but it will be developed by a highly funded government program and not by Bob in his makeshift laboratory/garage. "Honey can you move your car? I need to work on my cold fusion device"

reply to post by MystikMushroom


I have fallen for every tactic in the book. So I know what to look for and when it's best to step back and let things unfold.

We all can get worked up over issues, but I believe that they may be going so far on this issue that they may not be able to come back with their integrity intact.

We will see.

I don't think admonishing the membership here with a superior tone does much good. The same can be said of your own piece. The issue with the embassy as an example, it's not so much people being experts in hindsight as it is coming across the knowledge after the fact. When the embassy was attacked, none of us knew what had happened. The WH TOLD us that iot was a spontaneous riot caused by an obscure film maker who had done up a really crappy movie criticizing Islam.

That was the story from the WH for several days. If you heard about it on the news at all, that was the party line. Big Bad America again inflames the peaceful muslims with obvious results. There was quite a lot of traffic here on ATS and elsewhere to this effect. The UN Ambassador got up and said so, Carney said so. That's what we were told.

Only now it turns out the WH knew within hours that this was NOT a spontaneous mob action, but a choreographed 9/11 anniversary event. Why do we know "better" now? Because copies of the memos have been published and WH officials are fighting each other publicly. The Ambassador blames poor intel, which makes no sense in view of the fact that intel reached the WH within hours. Other officials have stated they repeatedly asked for help and were denied. One guy said that for him the Taliban was inside the building. Now they are on record as having said so. The WH blames Clinton. Clinton takes tha fall and now says emails and Facebook aren't proof. The entire WH is pointing fingers at each other publicly.

So why do we now know better? Because we have more information, information we did not initially have. And that information tells us this was a WH screw up from the get go. How deep does this go? Click on a conspiracy thread and soak it up.

So it's not so much a matter of hindsight by ourselves, who might have made the same choices the WH did in the same situation. It's a matter of more information that proves the WH lied to us and tried to divert our attention because, for one reason or another, they did not want this seen as a blatant terrorist act. It turns out the WH DID have more information, the information we belatedly received, and they acted the way they did KNOWING this information.

That puts a whole different spin on the issue. If the whole thing went down like the WH initially said it did, I don't think any but the most ardent foes would blame them for acting the way they did with the information they said they had. We now know they lied to us, that they let this thing happen. I see no reason why we cannot now criticize the WH for their action here.

If I told you what I really thought about your finger pointing I would be violating T&C, so we'll just leave it here.

Didn't you know that everyone on ATS had top-secret access to calssified documents from the state department and department of defense?

reply to post by schuyler


The fact remains that even though information has been released, we have no clue what the real facts are yet and we may not for some time. This thread is not directed to those that have doubts about the administration's actions, this is for those that jumped on the "It's all Obama's fault, this is proof of why we don't need to vote for him" bandwagon and still continue to spout-off about the situation when they have proven that they really have no clue.

I do understand that I have just pointed fingers and I've got my big-boy undies on so I am fully prepared to get the fingers pointed back at me.

Thanks for adding to the conversation.

Originally posted by muse7
Didn't you know that everyone on ATS had top-secret access to calssified documents from the state department and department of defense?

Or their uncles' fathers' cousins' nephews' brother knows a guy who told them so.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by MystikMushroom

 

I have fallen for every tactic in the book. So I know what to look for and when it's best to step back and let things unfold.

We all can get worked up over issues, but I believe that they may be going so far on this issue that they may not be able to come back with their integrity intact.

We will see.

I think if we all just took a deep breath....

And stood back for a moment, the content/quality of our posts would increase!

reply to post by MystikMushroom


I agree, but unfortunately politics gets in the way. Some folks are unwilling to part ways with their teams mantra for the sake of truth.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


most people post on here based on facts/research and/or what they are feeling at the time in response to what another being said. so i am inclined to ask, are you talking to yourself? aren't we all talking to ourselves on here? debating with ourselves? do what you feel is right and stop trying to convince people. you are only pointing the finger at your SELF.

reply to post by Corporate Providence


We all have to look within before we are able to look out and discern what is happening around us.

The point of the thread is directed towards a specific group that refuses to accept their own weakness, but instead points out the inadequacies of other for political gain.

I gladly point my finger at myself if that is what is necessary, but I have no political motive to press.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Nice spin.

But the issue is not on the details/minutia of how Obama handled the Bengazi situation.

The issue is, he lied.

He lied.
He lied.
He lied.

And he got busted.

Namaste.

beez

Point at me again and I'll break that finger!

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

Nice spin.

But the issue is not on the details/minutia of how Obama handled the Bengazi situation.

The issue is, he lied.

He lied.
He lied.
He lied.

And he got busted.

Namaste.

beez

Very well put. All 4 times!

Now I do love it when a point is so clear it can be that succinct.