History 101 of the Chemtrail Hoax

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Nope .. it was lilke the first vid you asked me about .. there was a define release of something like the first vid.

It was Right there under the upper wing flap ( I saw,felt,heard the flap open ..).

Like I said .. it was a release between the flap and the wing .. there was a Port there that Spewed out somthing from Within the wing that was close to the fusalage ..

It was not a Vapor trail from the wing guys .. it was coming from the wing under a flap that was on Top of the wing.

It was a Release .. I guess it could have been fuel .. but the engine was so close to it that at this point I dont think it was a mid flight fuel dump.

Back in the 70s .. ? I dunno what it was .. it was there just how I described it though.

JG.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by jaduguru

 

The "small flap" on top of the wing is a spoiler. It's used during turns, and to start a descent. Under the right conditions it can create a trail similar to a contrail, just like the wing can create a trail under normal flight conditions. The only things under the spoilers are the actuators to lift it up into the windstream over the wing. There is no room for any kind of sprayer or generator under there. There's barely enough room under there for the mechanical aspects, let alone any kind of generator. In fact on some of them there isn't even wing structure under them. The flaps retract under them and that's the structure.

edit on 11/17/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

I dont want to start an argument over this .. but .. I Remember what I saw and felt !

It was NOT a Vapor trail left by a flap and it was NOT due to atmospheric conditions.

It was a Dump of some kind from the Wing from under a flap ! It was a port of some kind that Dumped Something ( fuel ? ).

It was a Release .. believe it or not .. it was a Release ..

Again .. I dont know what it was .. but it did happen just like I described it.

JG.

reply to post by jaduguru


There's nothing to dump there, because there's nothing under there. The fuel dumps are located on the back of the wing, if the plane even has one, because not all of them do. You can't dump from something that isn't there, it's that simple.

The spoilers (not flaps, flaps are on the back of the wing), open in flight all the time. They are tied to the ailerons after the plane takes off, and every time an aileron moves, the spoiler on the wing in the direction of the turn open as well, to help slow the wing and put the aircraft into a bank. So I have no doubt that you saw and heard the spoilers open, but there is nothing under the spoiler to create the release that you say you saw. The wing is almost empty through a lot of it, including under the spoilers, because that creates the area where the flap retracts into the wing.

Originally posted by network dude
Some of you may have already known this, but I just found this information and thought it would do nicely to let some folks new the the phenomenon of persistent contrails being mis-identified as Chemtrails see where this all started.

This paper has the basic information obtained and explained by a man named Jay Reynolds.

The earliest I can find reference to the idea that contrails are other than normal is from Bill Brumbaugh, an evangelist now based in Bozeman, Montana, who hosts "The Proactive Newshour", formerly on several now-defunct shortwave networks and currently on Libertyworks radio.com internet and on satellite audio feed. According to information supplied by Brumbaugh to me, and confirmed by an associate of his, "Rick Flores", Brumbaugh developed concern that Ethylene Dibromide was present in jet fuel and was being burned, not sprayed, causing harmful pollution which was hazardous to health. He appears to have originated the idea sometime in 1995, based on his own comments and those of "Flores" that were sent to me via email: Excerpt from message of 10/6/99 from "Rick Flores" to Bill Brumbaugh(cc'd to Jay Reynolds)- "You remember several years ago when I actually took the time out to obtain the fuel samples because I too was curious as to the validity of the "JP8," "Contrail" stories that you initiated in Southern California. Being a commercial pilot I was able to verify first hand some of the information you were using for your stories on Contrails. " Excerpt from a message of 3/31/99 from Bill Brumbaugh to Jay Reynolds- "I am aware that we have been receiving record amounts of photons in the last few months, but that does not reach back to 1995 when according to pilots I have spoken with, changes were made in the jet fuel composition. At the same time in 1995, I was advised that refueling teams in hangars were then under law, required to wear full body protective gear while refueling." The pilot Brumbaugh refers to is "Flores", and Brumbaugh has refused to cite any documentary evidence that any such "law" has required such precautions. Current military concerns over JP-8 jet fuel are mainly based on their benzene content. Benzene, a carcinogen, is a natural component, in small amounts, of crude oil and almost all petroleum based fuels including gasoline. The change from JP-4 to JP-8 jet fuel by the military was to use a less flammable, and thus less hazardous fuel. Ethylene Dibromide has never been a constituent of jet fuels at all, it was used in all gasoline products when tetraethyl lead was included in the formulation of "leaded gasoline" to prevent preignition or "cylinder knocking" EDB was used for the purpose of passing the lead through combustion to prevent lead deposition on engine combustion section parts such as valves and sparkplugs. Since "knocking" was never a problem of jet engines, EDB was never needed. Some news reports have erroneously attributed soil contamination by EDB , such as at the Massachusetts Military Reservation, to jet fuel spillage when in fact the source of the EDB was spillage of aviation gasoline, probably from before the advent of the military's transition to jet aircraft. My exchanges with Brumbaugh and "Flores" were instructive because these two cannot seem to keep their stories straight, from which some valuable conclusions can be drawn.

The link will give you access to the full paper and subsequent following papers.

Calling the intentional modification of the planets atmosphere a 'chemtrail hoax' seems pretty shallow, no offense, but either someone hasn't done enough research into the constant known and applied methods of weather mod or they are just trying to downplay the operations either for personal or professonal reasons. Quite simply the more 'pollution' released by these aerosol/particlulate scattering operations, the more nuclei for cloud building and weather control. Add into the mix the ability to offer various charged particles into the madmade clouds and you have the recipe for engineering weather on a grand scale

Here's a great link with lots of resources, I suggest anyone not familiar with the constant and ongoing operations to modify earth's climate spend some serious time reading. Feel free to cut and paste any of the info at this link. Cheers.

Weather Modification 101 (one logical reason for a part of the scattering operations aka-- 'chemtrails')

rezn8d.net...

reply to post by Tecumte


Because it's one thing to say that jet exhaust is changing the atmosphere, and another to say that there's a spraying operation in place to do it. I have yet to see a single bit of proof, beyond theoretical papers, and conjecture by people that don't know what they're seeing, that proves to me that there is a spraying operation going on.

There are a lot of other things happening to change the atmosphere, here on the ground. I went past two plants near Indy the other day that were just spewing things into the air at a prodigious rate. I have pictures of one of them, but haven't downloaded them from my phone yet. Most of the odd readings that are pointed at as being from planes, are far more likely to have come from one of these sources than from any plane flying overhead.

ETA: A lot of the weather modification going on that people talk about is cloud seeding, which is vastly different from chemtrails. Most of what is being talked about on that page, (I don't have time for a super detailed reading right now) seems to be cloud seeding.

reply to post by Zaphod58


I understand what your suggesting .. but the 'material' fluid (whatever) came from Within the wing and close to the fusalage (Sp)

The release was NOT on the tips of the wing .. It was from Within the Flap that opened up man.

It was a Release .. I saw it .. it was NOT a vapor trail .. I was watching this being controlled.

Like I suggested .. could have been a fuel dump or a Smoke trail for other flights .. I dont know for sure. But It was a Trail of some kind.

I saw what I Saw.

JG.

reply to post by jaduguru


They don't leave smoke trails for other aircraft. That's what radar following is for.

They are spoilers, not flaps. Flaps are on the back of the wing, spoilers are on the top of the wing. They perform vastly different roles in the performance of the aircraft.

edit on 11/17/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/17/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Tecumte

 

Because it's one thing to say that jet exhaust is changing the atmosphere, and another to say that there's a spraying operation in place to do it. I have yet to see a single bit of proof, beyond theoretical papers, and conjecture by people that don't know what they're seeing, that proves to me that there is a spraying operation going on.

There are a lot of other things happening to change the atmosphere, here on the ground. I went past two plants near Indy the other day that were just spewing things into the air at a prodigious rate. I have pictures of one of them, but haven't downloaded them from my phone yet. Most of the odd readings that are pointed at as being from planes, are far more likely to have come from one of these sources than from any plane flying overhead.

ETA: A lot of the weather modification going on that people talk about is cloud seeding, which is vastly different from chemtrails. Most of what is being talked about on that page, (I don't have time for a super detailed reading right now) seems to be cloud seeding.

edit on 11/17/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

I think you might be missing the obvious though, everyone and their uncle nowdays seems to be carrying out tests and applications to modify the weather, private business, localities, states, nations, militaries, world organizations, etc. etc, People are simply seeing these operations from the ground. No big 'conspiracy' here. The more planes you have enlisted in the cloud building the more successful you can be at engineering the weather.

Just a few in the U.S.:

United States Aeromet, Inc. (L-3 Communications) – U.S Department of Defense
BAMEX – Bow Echo and Mesoscale Convective Vortex Experiment
CALIPSO – CloudSat Validation Experiment
Delaware Department of Agriculture Cloud Seeding Program
Edwards Aquifer Authority
Federal Aviation Administration – Great Lakes Division
Gratiot Weather Modification Project
Illinois Weather Modification Projects
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration – National Hurricane Center
Naval Surface Warfare Center
Nevada State Cloud Seeding Program
New Mexico BLAST (Burst Light and Stratus Transmission) Project
North Dakota Cloud Modification Project (NDCMP)
North Dakota Thunderstorm Project – North Dakota Atmospheric Resource Board
North Dakota Tracer Experiment – North Dakota Atmospheric Resource Board
Northeast Sampling Program – Sonoma Technology, Inc.
NSF/NCAR ICE-L Field Campaign
Oklahoma Weather Modification Project (OWMP)
Panhandle Groundwater Conservation District Rainfall Enhancement Program
Santa Barbara County Water Agency
Sonoma Technology, Inc.
Stanislaus Weather Modification Program
State of South Dakota – Department of Natural Resources Division of Weather Modification
Texas Central High Plains Rainfall Enhancement Program
Texas Experiment in Augmenting Rainfall through Cloud Seeding (TEXARC)
Texas Weather Modification Program
The University of North Dakota – US Environmental Protection Agency
University of Arizona – National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
Upper American River Cloud Seeding Project
Upper Payette River Basin Cloud Seeding Program
Upper Tuolumne River Weather Modification Program
Utah Division of Water Resources
Utah Division of Water Resources
West Central Texas Council of Governments Rainfall Enhancement Program
Western Dakota Water Development District – Black Hills Council of Local Government
Wyoming Weather Modification Pilot Program [/quote]

The jets came out this morning early in droves and just saturated the sky, I just came back in from seeing a surrealistic synthetic sky with nothing but plane generated trails and cloud masses, all 'man-made'. I guess I'm going to have to get a camera and learn how to download some of these pics, apperantly people in other locals may not be wirnessing this. Now those planes have gone and only a more 'normal' east/west passenger plane cruises through leaving only the soon disapating contrail.

Also strange, maybe related and maybe not, I stood out and watched these (often reported) particles zip by, like clear flying insects, one could see them with the sun as a backdrop, extremely interesting to watch their behavior. I spend alot of time outdoors, I routinely see alot of floating and flying things out in the country, not sure what these were but I have witnessed them on several occasions when the squadrons of planes come out and 'white out' the sky. Polymer fibers? Maybe I'll try and capture some and have them analyzed.

Have I witnessed a weather modification test/operation? I believe so. Sure we can try and explain away the event item by item, and sure I've heard all of the generic lines used over and over to downplay and marginalize what I've seen, (save yourself the effort) but after years of reviewing conditions and explanations, I don't think this is all that unusual to witness weather mod taking place, I believe I am simply witnessing one of the many many many ongoing attempts at modifying the weather, being openly (in some places) admitted to. We know it's happening. Nobody denys that. Are people witnessing this? I think so.

And this idea that 'cloud seeding' and 'chemtrails' as being two 'separate' things is absurd. *Creating clouds* is all a part of weather mod, placing and acting upon various particles used for cloud nuclei in man made clouds is the method.

reply to post by Tecumte


And where are all these mystery planes coming from? There should be at least one picture of an honest to god sprayer plane somewhere, and other than the KC-135 that does icing tests, the only ones I've ever seen are cloud seeders, or crop duster types.

Have you seen how much air travel there is over the US? You couldn't sneak a plane in anywhere into air traffic control to spray, and something like 90+% of air travel over the US can be tracked online. The only ones that can't are some military aircraft, and even that's changing as the military starts using the ADS-B transponders, along with everyone else. Even taking into account about 10% military travel, that's not enough air traffic by military flights to cover as much territory as people claim is being sprayed.

Cloud seeding and chemtrails are totally different. Chemtrails are supposedly what are being left by aircraft flying overhead, that spread into cloud cover. Cloud Seeding can only be done if there is a preexisting cloud, with quite a bit of moisture in it. Contrails don't have enough moisture to turn into rain clouds without some preexisting clouds, so you can't seed a contrail and make it rain.

Why is it so hard to believe that contrails persist, and spread out into cloud cover, but so easy to believe that there's some giant conspiracy that there is no credible evidence for, that is spraying some nasty chemical that is for ?

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Tecumte

 

And where are all these mystery planes coming from? There should be at least one picture of an honest to god sprayer plane somewhere, and other than the KC-135 that does icing tests, the only ones I've ever seen are cloud seeders, or crop duster types.

Have you seen how much air travel there is over the US? You couldn't sneak a plane in anywhere into air traffic control to spray, and something like 90+% of air travel over the US can be tracked online. The only ones that can't are some military aircraft, and even that's changing as the military starts using the ADS-B transponders, along with everyone else. Even taking into account about 10% military travel, that's not enough air traffic by military flights to cover as much territory as people claim is being sprayed.

Cloud seeding and chemtrails are totally different. Chemtrails are supposedly what are being left by aircraft flying overhead, that spread into cloud cover. Cloud Seeding can only be done if there is a preexisting cloud, with quite a bit of moisture in it. Contrails don't have enough moisture to turn into rain clouds without some preexisting clouds, so you can't seed a contrail and make it rain.

Why is it so hard to believe that contrails persist, and spread out into cloud cover, but so easy to believe that there's some giant conspiracy that there is no credible evidence for, that is spraying some nasty chemical that is for ?

edit on 11/17/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

No, no I think you're still missing the point and confusing the issue. You're still trying to artificially distiguish between two components of known weather modification, the cloud seeding vs 'chemtrails' (aerosol spreading), that is a non-issue. In weather mod you build clouds using both, all sorts of aerosols and particulates to build the clouds and you can act on those cloud nucei using methods mentioned in the articles linked above incuding radiowaves. Check out the links I posted, there is hours and hourse of very good reading material and links to learn about these processes. Or simply downplay it all,pretend there's nothing to see, call the science a 'conspiracy theory' lol, if you like. It's real, it's happening on a grand scale and it appears most everyone who can is working tirelessly to "Own The Weather".

And another link (with lot's of side links) just for you (and yours lol):

rezn8d.com...

reply to post by Tecumte

In weather mod you build clouds using both, all sorts of aerosols and particulates to build the clouds and you can act on those cloud nucei using methods mentioned in the articles linked above incuding radiowaves. Check out the links I posted, there is hours and hourse of very good reading material and links to learn about these processes.

I can't seem to find where radio waves are needed to form clouds...

How do clouds form?

Clouds form when the invisible water vapour in the air condenses into visible water droplets or ice crystals. There is water around us all the time in the form of tiny gas particles, also known as water vapour. There are also tiny particles floating around in the air - such as salt and dust - these are called aerosols.

The water vapour and the aerosols are constantly bumping into each other. When the air is cooled, some of the water vapour sticks to the aerosols when they collide - this is condensation. Eventually, bigger water droplets form around the aerosol particles, and these water droplets start sticking together with other droplets, forming clouds.

www.metoffice.gov.uk...

reply to post by Tecumte

And another link (with lot's of side links) just for you (and yours lol):

Regarding the link you provided, I was looking at it and came across something interesting...



rezn8d.com...

That alone shows this site isn't very credible.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h

I can't seem to find where radio waves are needed to form clouds...

No, you probably won't, the man made clouds are formed by the spreading from planes of particles/aerosols, I believe from the articles linked the use of radio waves was to manipulate the man made cloud masses to produce different weather results. I would suggest though really taking the time to investigate the many links I posted, (I'm still looking and reading there and trying to learn more) modifying the weather from such relatively simple things such as the addition of carbon black (or burning a richer mixture where you want clouds to form) can help explain many 'chemtrails', too using such things as ion emitters and radio waves, I find fascinating and worth looking into, and too the recognition of just how many entities are engaged in trying to manipulate the weather as in the very partial (long) list I posted earlier.

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Tecumte

 

And another link (with lot's of side links) just for you (and yours lol):

Regarding the link you provided, I was looking at it and came across something interesting...

rezn8d.com...

That alone shows this site isn't very credible.

Guilt by association, hmmm, no not really, I hadn't ran into that link there yet (still reading the tons of info there, *some* of it, so far, VERY informative Imo) but I'm glad to see they have the HAARP 'watch' page up, I think it is far from clear yet if that HAARP 'monitoring' site has any real validity or not , but it should be given a chance, time will tell if it's of value. I see the vultures have already set up a webpage online to try and 'debunk' the site, lol, to me that indicates even a closer look.

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by r2d246

 

do your own searches it's all right there in google as plain as day

I did, and you are the one who posted this tidbit now how about you backing it up with some evidence.

But I see you aren't going to show proof as to what you are saying so I found this for you...

Andy Hollinger, who handles media relations at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, tried not to laugh as we explained our fact-check.
"I can almost guarantee you that is indeed an urban myth," he said. "... That sounds like Conspiracy Theory 101."

But he humored us, putting historian Patricia Heberer on the phone. Her expertise is the German medical community, including Holocaust-era experimentation.

Most Nazi medical experiments, she said, had two themes: new drugs and treatments for common battlefield ailments, from war wounds to typhus, or the more infamous effort to underpin Nazi racial ideas, such as Josef Mengele's twin studies. None of the experimentation that she knows of involved fluoride — for mind control or for healthy teeth.

Meanwhile, in the concentration camp system, as in the ghettos, it would have been surprising if fluoride delivery was a focus — in the final few days before liberation, water lines scarcely delivered water. So, water treated just for the Jews?

www.politifact.com...

And then we have this...

A search of the internet of Charles E Perkins revealed a digitized version of the book, "The Truth about Water Fluoridation". Perkins was obviously no proponent of fluoridated water and gives a detailed explanation why. He also believed fluoridated water started as a communist plot, but the book contains no mention of the use of fluoride by the Nazis at all. As a matter of fact, there is no documentation to even prove the illicit use of fluoridation by the Russians. He simply states, "Mass medication, involving fluoridation of public water systems, has long been known as an important technique of the Communist philosophy of mass control." The story is Perkins was asked to better explain his Russian fluoridation comments in his book and the resulting letter brought to life the Nazi information.

onespeedbikerpolitico.blogspot.com...

So now please show the proof that you stated in your post about the Nazis and flouride...

Also please show the proof I asked for in my prior post concerning chemtrails
as that is what this thread is about?

Okay yes, your right, absolutely 100% correct. Now go drink some more tap water okay.

Originally posted by r2d246
ya but the Nazi's invented the idea of putting floride in water at the concentration camps.

How about you do some of tha research that you insist others do??

There is actually no credible evidence that fluoride was used in any concentration camps at all.

The sole source of the story was Charles Perkins - so who was Charles Perkins and where did he get his info?

There is a claim he was sent by the US Govt to take charge of I.G. Faben after WW2 - but Perkins himself makes no actual mention of any connection with I. G. Faben in his book - an odd omission since it would be quite an important association to establish his credentials, and neither he nor fluoride rate any mention in "The Crime and Punishment of IG Farben".

Also I.G. Farbin had it's own war trial - the records are available online & I see no mention of Perkins or Fluoride in them - but they are very long - it's entirely possible I missed it so please feel free to point them out if you find any.

his failure to provide any documented link is analysed here.

Others have looked for evidence to support the claim - eg this forum discussion from 2009, and this one - AFAIK no-one has actually found any.

Just another BS conspiracy myth made up to scare people.

reply to post by r2d246

Okay yes, your right, absolutely 100% correct. Now go drink some more tap water okay.

So then I take it you only drink bottled water?

Then you may want to read this...

What FDA regulations apply to bottled water?

The FDA has strict regulations on standards of quality, identity, and good manufacturing practices that bottled water must meet. Its regulations for governing the standards of “quality and identity” for bottled water are found in the Code of Federal Register 21 CFR 165.110. The FDA standards of quality state that domestic bottled water with no added fluoride may contain between 1.4 and 2.4 milligrams per liter (mg/L) fluoride, depending on the annual average daily air temperatures at the location where the bottled water is sold. Domestic bottled water with added fluoride can contain between 0.8 and 1.7 mg/L fluoride, depending on the annual average daily air temperatures where the bottled water is sold. Imported bottled water with no added fluoride may not contain more than 1.4 mg/L fluoride, and imported bottled water with added fluoride may not contain more than 0.8 mg/L fluoride.

and we have this also....

Is the amount of fluoride in bottled water always listed on the label?

The FDA does not require bottled water manufacturers to list the fluoride content on the label, but it does require that fluoride additives be listed. In 2006, the FDA approved labeling with the statement, “Drinking fluoridated water may reduce the risk of tooth decay,” if the bottled water contains from 0.6 mg/L to 1.0 mg/L.

www.cdc.gov...

So as you can see no matter what water you drink even bottled water you will be drinking flouridated water.

BTW I drink tap water daily and have no problem doing it, but you may want to quit taking showers as that is also the same water that comes from your kitchen tap, but you already know that correct?

reply to post by Tecumte

Guilt by association, hmmm, no not really, I hadn't ran into that link there yet (still reading the tons of info there, *some* of it, so far, VERY informative Imo) but I'm glad to see they have the HAARP 'watch' page up, I think it is far from clear yet if that HAARP 'monitoring' site has any real validity or not , but it should be given a chance, time will tell if it's of value. I see the vultures have already set up a webpage online to try and 'debunk' the site, lol, to me that indicates even a closer look.

Actually the owner of the site HAARPstatus.com has debunked it himself...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hard to accept something as legit when the site owner admits it is a sham.

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Tecumte

 

Guilt by association, hmmm, no not really, I hadn't ran into that link there yet (still reading the tons of info there, *some* of it, so far, VERY informative Imo) but I'm glad to see they have the HAARP 'watch' page up, I think it is far from clear yet if that HAARP 'monitoring' site has any real validity or not , but it should be given a chance, time will tell if it's of value. I see the vultures have already set up a webpage online to try and 'debunk' the site, lol, to me that indicates even a closer look.

Actually the owner of the site HAARPstatus.com has debunked it himself...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hard to accept something as legit when the site owner admits it is a sham.

Hey, if the site owner of that HAARPstatus site admits it's a sham I wanna know, hard to believe he would create a sham site and then admit it and keep it up, but if you say so , I'll check it out.

But the rest of the info at the links I posted from the site I lnked to, I found largely informative (still much reading to do there) so much going on out there in the realm of weather mod.,