The USA is Europe's whipping boy.....

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by SpearMint

 

I have read, and no I am not excusing Hitler....the European dictator.....I am simply stating that since he pissed off other Europeans by taking back his countries land

There's clearly some things you don't understand about Hitler and WW2...

reply to post by SpearMint


please enlighten me....was Poland not persecuting ethnic German citizens ( killing, raping, thieving) something Europe turned a blind eye to, was Czechoslovakia not a piece of land formed by Versailles with ethnic Germans in it?

you throw doubt and insult around in a condescending tone, but not the correction you so arrogantly boast to have a superior concept of....

EDIT:
I like how you ignored my other points....

when the Treaty of Versailles was signed, which recreated the nation of Poland. From the defeated German Empire. Poland received the following:

Most of the Prussian province of Posen was granted to Poland. This territory had already been taken over by local Polish insurgents during the Great Poland Uprising of 1918–1919.

70% of West Prussia was given to Poland to provide free access to the sea, along with a 10% German minority, creating the Polish corridor.

The east part of Upper Silesia was awarded to Poland after a plebiscite. Sixty percent of residents voted for German citizenship, and 40 percent for Poland; as a result the area was divided.

To provide a Polish railway line connecting Gdańsk and Warsaw, the area of Działdowo (Soldau) in East Prussia was granted to the new Polish state.

From the eastern part of West Prussia and the southern part of East Prussia in the provinces of Warmia and Masuria, a small area was granted to Poland.

en.wikipedia.org...

and add to that what was given to France in so far as mining in the west amongst other things...and you have un-payable debt, no means of producing, and your citizens being killed like dogs in the streets right next door....and Europe still says they had no part in the creation of Nazi Germany....

The Polish Corridor was the issue, or at least the apparent pretext, over which World War II began. In March 1939 the Nazi dictator of Germany, Adolf Hitler, demanded the cession of Danzig and the creation of extraterritorial German highways across the corridor connecting to East Prussia. Poland refused these demands and secured French and British guarantees against German aggression. In September Germany invaded Poland, thus beginning the war.

www.britannica.com...

It is called The 1939 Danzig Massacres
'Bloody Sunday of Bromberg'

Why Hitler Invaded Poland

Polish atrocities against Germany that led to the German defensive Invasion in 1939 were many. This was one such atrocity.

On one day alone - Polish Jews, under the protection of the Polish Army, attack a small German town and viciously kill 5500 Germans. Polish Jews were confident they would win against Germany and went on a rampage of ' Blood Lust ' that was unmatched. Groups of Bolsheviks attacked from Ponz, Lotz and Warsaw approached the town and started killing the farmers on the outskirts. Children were nailed to barns, women were raped and hacked to death with axes, men were executed where they stood.
The 1939 Danzig Massacres

The Polish Bolsheviks kill 58,000 German Nationals in the Danzig corridor In the months leading up to the German invasion the Polish Army and independent Bolshevik units had been slaughtering German nationals in the Danzig corridor. Mass killings of thousands of civilian ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche) by both civilian and Russian NDVK Jews, who were confident that Poland would quickly defeat Germany. Many apparently expected to take possession of German farms and businesses. An estimated 58,000 German civilians lost their lives in the massacres carried out prior to the 1939 invasion.

uk.answers.yahoo.com...

vnnforum.com...

WARNING-last link has GRAFIC CONTENT....
www.thefuhrerbunker.com...

and Europe knew.......

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by SpearMint

 

you throw doubt and insult around in a condescending tone, but not the correction you so arrogantly boast to have a superior concept of....

Because I have no intention of wasting my time talking to you about WW2, it's none of my concern what you do and don't know about it.

reply to post by SpearMint


yet you correct me....why do you care about this thread then.....?

I know as much as I cared to learn.


was that a copout I detected?

I don't agree with your theory of 'whipping boy'. In my opinion, the US is Europe's HAMMER!

...think about it...

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by SpearMint

 

yet you correct me....why do you care about this thread then.....?

I know as much as I cared to learn.


was that a copout I detected?

I didn't correct you, I just told you that you're wrong in an indirect way.

This thread wasn't about WW2, it was about attacking Europe and making it look like America is free of evil, which you clearly were doing.

What do I have to "copout" on? I haven't even begun to discuss anything.

reply to post by SpearMint


No it is about Europe using the US to fight her battles, and then sitting back and letting us get the back lash...

WW2 was one such example...

they did nothing to stop the war....never stepped in to protect German citizens being abused after ww1. something they knew perfectly well was happening yet they said "oh Hitler is invading out of nowhere"

but they did come to the US and beg us to go to war with Germany for them.....


had they put half as much effort in the decades before the war started to not make a dire situation for Germany, they could have avoided another world war...but they loved the Versailles treaty with all the profit it entailed for them.....

so they played dumb when it was their obligation to protect German citizens from mass murder...and they turned a blind eye, causing a bad situation to get worse....for everyone....


oh and be direct or else you run the risk of misleading and filling my head with BS....

reply to post by deessell


I see your point, kind of the one I was making....but we get all the blame for the bang bang....even though we fight for European interests sometimes...

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by SpearMint

 

they did nothing to stop the war....

UHH... wow. You CLEARLY do not know what you're talking about. That statement more than proves it, and it makes me realize there's no point in me staying around here.

reply to post by SpearMint



that is all you do....you say I do not know....yet you show nothing of your superior knowledge..

I have provided numerous links and reference material...what have you given...crap...your opinion, and while valid in a conversation it is worthless in a debate of FACTS....nothing.


fair enough....bye..

Originally posted by SpearMint
reply to post by BIHOTZ

 

Now you're making excuses for Hitler? There are no excuses, he was an evil man and the blame is on him (And those that helped him).

More confused about your angle now, you're lumping Europe together and then defending certain parts.

You also need to read up on the history related to WW2.

edit on 24-10-2012 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-10-2012 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

History is written by the victors, so forget about the "Read up on History" nonsense.

To use "The Wizard of Oz", as an example - The booming ruthless voice is America, but the little man behind the curtain is "European Money/Royalty/Elitist"

The Whipping Boy is loud, and clearly American, that's what the Hidden European Controllers want the world to see/hear.

S&F

reply to post by BIHOTZ


I think you are being a tad revisionist.

Like WW1, WW2 was started by German military aggression. The entry of the US into WW2 a couple of years after hundreds of thousands of Europeans had died fighting Nazism demonstrates that the European democracies sought to contain German expansionism.

The Treaty of Versailles is often cited as an excuse for German military aggression, but that is just an excuse because once Hitler got started in the 1930’s there was no stopping his ambitions. As the Jews, Poles, the disabled, Slavs, Romany gypsies, homosexuals and a dozen other groups can attest.

Not to mention that the US joined WW1 in its closing stages when the war had been more-or-less lost, nor the fact that the US made a handsome profit from both wars while the European allies were pretty much shattered. Not sure how those two facts make the US a "whipping boy", infact the opposite I would say.

As to the OP. The US is only a “whipping boy” if you believe all these conspiracies and in your belief has uncovered the evidence which show how a small number of people have somehow controlled many, many people over many, many years without anyone making a sound of protest!

Regards

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by SpearMint

 

No it is about Europe using the US to fight her battles, and then sitting back and letting us get the back lash...

WW2 was one such example...

they did nothing to stop the war....never stepped in to protect German citizens being abused after ww1. something they knew perfectly well was happening yet they said "oh Hitler is invading out of nowhere"

but they did come to the US and beg us to go to war with Germany for them.....


had they put half as much effort in the decades before the war started to not make a dire situation for Germany, they could have avoided another world war...but they loved the Versailles treaty with all the profit it entailed for them.....

so they played dumb when it was their obligation to protect German citizens from mass murder...and they turned a blind eye, causing a bad situation to get worse....for everyone....


oh and be direct or else you run the risk of misleading and filling my head with BS....

edit on 24-10-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)

I think you've forgotten about another World War that happened 20 years before WW2.
Germany was in a dier state because it started, and lost their first world war. Germany, like many other European countries, was struggling getting back on their feet.

Germany, in fact, relied heavily on the US for loans to help them rebuild and fix the hyper inflation. The Weimar Repulic was built on bad foundations, and in times of economic stress and bad national moral, extream political parties get more attention and, inevitably, power (look at Greece and Golden Dawn).

When Hitler got into power, he needed to re-build the economy, and one way to do this, is to increase production to create more jobs, so more tax can be collected. He did this first by making all the Jews and non-Germans leave their jobs (via force) so that the Germans could have them. After that, he knew more was needed, so he made the army larger (considrably), after that, he decided to produce a HUGE arsenal to keep the economy and jobs going.

Now, we have a country with a beated national moral, with an economy that can only be sustained with a growing army and weaponary, that is being led by a racist, far right political party. Once Hitler declaired himself cheif commander of the army, it was pretty obvious what was going to happen, and it did happen.

Britain and France was willing to look away as Germany took back the lands taken from them in WW1, as long as they had a signed agreement that he wouldn't go too far (Poland) to prevent another world war, because every country was still re-building themselves from the frist world war.

And also, getting the US to fight our battles for us? Have you completly forgot 3/4 of the war??
The only reason the US fought with us is because we offered up such an attractive repayment plan, thats how the US made so much money from WW2.

To the US, WW2 was nothing more than a contracted war. We paid you for supplies, you delivered, we paid.

reply to post by paraphi


those minorities were under European persecution for centuries...that is nothing new...

Europe had its eyes turned away from the German people being slaughtered in the many thousands, that is nothing new, though it sounds that way since it is an inconvenient fact overlooked in history classes.

Hitler's expansionism was going to be limited to the pre Versailles treaty border....a declaration of war came from other countries first.

and we seem to forget that the whole reason for going to war was not because the poor polish people were being invaded....Europe could care less...it was because the banking system Germany was setting up was going to shatter the hold that our current model has, where virtual money has no real value except for that which a complicated and easily manipulated scheme sets for it.

it is not revisionist. It is simply the facts in perspective.

reply to post by Trolloks


WW1 had very little with arch duke Ferdinand. The peace signed by Germany at the end of WW1 was a sham.

It was in part why Hitler was so pissed at the Jews. He saw them selling their country out, which in his mind had WON the first WW and then being punished.


EDIT:

The German economy was not dependant on war production. It was prosperous because they created money that was NOT hyper inflated, a national coin that had real value, which was issued and made people spend.

He made public works and spent most of his efforts on RECONSTRUCTION...that was plenty of work....and public works which were many and some still around today...

he made sound money and created jobs....some in war production but not most.

reply to post by BIHOTZ


Germany had to pay back SO MUCH, because it DESTROYED SO MUCH in the first world war!! How is this hard to understand?!

If i destroy your house, you would expect me to pay for the whole lot, not just the shed.

reply to post by Trolloks


they had to pay back impossible amounts. and their main forms of production were taken from them. their best mines were seized, best farm land, everything. They were left with sky rocketing public debt and hyper inflated money. They needed a wheel barrel full of money to buy bread....and Europe thought that would lead to what exactly?

world wars destroyed much by many.

reply to post by BIHOTZ


They destroyed more than they could re-build. WW1 was the biggest war in history in its time, more lost their lives than any, more was destroyed than any, and this all means, it costs more than any other to rebuild. This is why it went on for 4 years and was so aggresive, both sides knew that if they lost, they were ruined, no country could repay back what they destroyed because the scale was so huge.

Germany had two choices if it wanted to survive well after WW1;

1. Win and get the loosers to cover the costs of the war,
2. Never of started the war in the first place.

reply to post by Trolloks


they did not start WW1.....

how exactly did THEY start it?

one source of the plethora available..I could do a here let me Google that for you thing, but just check for yourself.
it took me less than a minute to find this...did you even try to ask yourself any questions concerning what you were taught

The Outrageous Treaty of Versailles
The official treaty that ended the war was the Treaty of Versailles, where representatives of all sides sat down at a conference table and wrote the treaty.

Several interesting personalities attended these meetings. In the British delegation was the British economist John Maynard Keynes, and representing the American banking interests was Paul Warburg, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve. His brother. Max, the head of the German banking firm of M.M. Warburg and Company, of Hamburg, Germany, and who "was not only in charge of Germany's finances but was a leader of the German espionage system" was there as a representative of the German government.

The Treaty was written to end the war, but another delegate to the conference. Lord Curzon of England, the British Foreign Secretary, saw through what the actual intent was and declared: "This is no peace; this is only a truce for twenty years." Lord Curzon felt that the terms of the Treaty were setting the stage for a second world war, and he correctly predicted the year it would start: 1939.

Lord Curzon was indeed a prophet: he picked the actual year that World War II would start!

One of the planks of the Treaty called for large amounts of war reparations to be paid to the victorious nations by the German government. This plank of the Treaty alone caused more grief in the German nation than any other and precipitated three events:

The "hyperinflation" of the German mark between 1920 and 1923;

The destruction of the middle class in Germany; and

The bringing to power of someone who could end the inflation: a dictator like Adolf Hitler.

This plank was written by John Foster Dulles, one of the founders of the Council on Foreign Relations, and later the Secretary of State to President Dwight Eisenhower.

Even John Maynard Keynes became concerned about the Treaty. He wrote: "The peace is outrageous and impossible and can bring nothing but misfortune behind it".

In addition to writing the Treaty of Versailles, the nations who were victorious in the war also wrote the Charter of the League of Nations, which was ratified on January 10, 1920, and signed by President Wilson for the American government. Wilson brought the treaty back to the United States and asked the Senate to ratify it The Senate, remembering George Washington's advice to avoid foreign entanglements and reflecting the views of the American people who did not wish to enter the League, refused to ratify the treaty. President Wilson was not pleased, possibly because he saw himself, as Senator Henry Cabot Lodge was quick to point out, as: "... a future President of the world."

It is now apparent that Wilson intended to head up the world government the war was fought to give the world, and he became depressed when the Treaty was not ratified. Imagine the disappointment of one who had come so close to becoming the very first President of the World, only to have it taken away by the actions of the Senate of the United States. Imagine the sense of incredible power that Wilson must have felt, thinking he would become the very first individual in the history of mankind to rule the world. Others had tried and failed, but Wilson was confident that he would succeed.

But the American people, expressing their displeasure through the Senate, would not let him.

www.threeworldwars.com...