Richard Mourdock: God intends women to get raped!

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by campanionator

 

I'll just say that the nature, tone and general intent of people'e posts, when taken over time and looking at many to get a feel for someone, says a great deal about their purpose for being here and their values.

I'm happy to let mine stand on their own and to say what they do about who I am and what I believe in.


@ Thread

I wonder if people might want to at least give a moment's consideration to this from another direction. It was about midway through the thread that I saw a few comments that made me think about this too. To some, the idea of a Child born of rape being a gift simply isn't possible. At least one on here outright says as much.

However.... Has anyone considered that this man might have a relative, friend or other person close that *WAS* born of a rape, long ago, and THIS is how a survivor who DOES live with that reality comes to terms with and makes peace with all that?

I'd agree it must be one heck of a thing to know for those who are ever told in those circumstances. So, is it BAD now to say that all life IS, to those of Faith, somehow an intention of God? What's the alternative, exactly? Telling the people conceived that way that they are worthless or the intention of the OTHER extreme?

Just another way to see things, after the man did state so clearly and aggressively, what his defense was. No wishy washy political weasel in him, and I'd give him that much....

This really is left wing Liberal character assassination. Here is a quote from the pastor of Mourdock.

“I think rape is a horrible thing, and I think God would condemn rape as a horrible,” Deeg said. “I think we’re made in the image of God regardless,” he added, “I don’t think the circumstances dictate whether God knows us and loves us, regardless of how our conception comes about.”

This is what Mourdock was trying to say, that even though abortion itself is Evil, that God has a plan even for this terrible act. Has the child resulting from rape ever become a Doctor, or firefighter, or cop, or EMT, and saved another person's life? Life is life, regardless of how it comes about, and should be treated as such. Even the worst events can have good come out of them. The title of this thread is disgusting, and does not reflect the article cited, words spoken, or intent. OP should be ashamed of themselves.

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by Ghost375

No, he clearly says that if a woman gets raped, God intended for that rape to happen.....
You can spin it however you want...but he still said that.

Really? Show me where he says that.

What I read says that God intended for that LIFE to be created. Not for that RAPE to happen. There is a difference.

Oh no here we go with the semantic police again. Please you have to be an idiot of the highest order to not understand exactly what he said. This isn't hard it is logical thought.

God intends for this life to happen, which means this egg and this sperm have to meet during this ovulation cycle or it will be a completely different life altogether. So yes for that life to occur means that the rape has to occur. So what if the woman is married and God says that only her and her husband are supposed to be making babies together. God intended for THIS life to happen right? Because it wouldn't be the same life or person if she concieved with her husband

Originally posted by LiveEquation
Is this belief pervasive among republicans running for office?

Looks like it.
Now ask yourself why around 50% of those who vote in USA vote for these people.
No evolution, no global warming, no equal rights, trickle down economics, pro-war... just ain't no end to the level (or debt) of stupid vampire bat crazy there.

And look what I found:
conservapedia.com...
It's a joke right? There really isn't such a thing as conservapedia, is there?!
PLEASE TELL ME THERE'S NO SUCH THING!!

Nuts... just nuts...

Intellectual or critical thinking seem to exit the room when some religious ideologues speak on evolution, global warming, abortion and a woman’s right to choose, birth control and again, a woman’s right to her reproductive life, equal pay between the sexes; marriage equality—but strangely, they never call on their religious or biblical teachings when it comes to excessive money in the hands of a concentrated few or helping the less fortunate among us through social programs.
www.allvoices.com...

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

.... The title of this thread is disgusting, and does not reflect the article cited, words spoken, or intent. OP should be ashamed of themselves.

I should be ashamed of myself for what Richard explicitly said? did you read my last two posts?

Here is a snippet on what i wrote below

and of course Paul Ryan's view on abortion is nothing new and this is what was echoed by Richard...this being God's will of course. That being said, the OP didn't twist what Richard stated firmly during the debate.

Source 1

And this is not new, the conservative GOP holds this view,


Picture source
Who told them that life is a gift? God? which God? Are not the GOP views on abortion a discrimination of faith? Do they also not infringe on women's rights?

Who said conception is the beginning of life?

By saying conception is the beginning of life, it is implied that there was no life before. Yet live cells are present at conception. Conception is nothing but a continuation of life. period! It is not a gift! It is a characteristic of life and it is a choice like all life's characteristics.

Pregnancy due to rape is a consequence of rape and conception doesn't make anything a gift. It is just that, a consequence.

Originally posted by strafgod
Reply to post by campanionator

 

Is it extreme to have faith and believe life is a gift given by god regardless how its conceived? Or.. Is it extreme that he doesn't want rape victims to abort their babies?

I dont know much about this topic other than the twisted interpretation of what this man said, explain what it is that makes him "extreme".

about abortion, if you ask me id say do whatever you want, it doesn't concern me but isn't the baby also a victim of rape? abort the rapist not the victims :p

 

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It is extreme that he and you are talking about a crime, committed By an iindividual
and then interjecting god into the equation. I thought we had free will and personal
Responsibility?

Yes, God has a plan. Therefore, Mourdock should shut up and let us hear God ourselves. My personal relationship with God does not include an intermediary named Mourdock. I will follow my own path to God, as should everyone else who feels called to do so.

If a woman is raped and endures an abortion because of it, that is between her and God, not between her and Mourdock and God.

Who does he think he is? The angel Gabriel???

Originally posted by LiveEquation
Another republican just showed how the republicans really view god and women. Is this belief pervasive among republicans running for office?

"I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is that gift from God," Mourdock said. "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."

Source 1

In other words if a women gets raped and then gets pregnant, it was the will of God! How long will it take for people to realize that God is not for all the masses?

I wish the men who say those quotes would understand,
rape is and was always punishable by death! the only way out was to marry the victim.
in my opinion death can be preferable... the marriages were done with the full intention of restoring the man to a good moral standing... in our culture, people are treated like candy wrappers... garbage.

The Republicans run the sex rings, don't they?
They are anti social people haters, clearly, who value their piles of garbage over human life.

Human life has value in adult form too! That is where Repubs really fail.... they kill many adults and claim the kids are valuable... yeah valuable in pedo rings



this makes me so mad OP LOL

That's madness.
That's all I have to say.

First...I'm so sick of people injecting their opinion of what God wants into our civil liberties.

Second, this is such a made up controversy. I for one don't think this poor hapless guy meant it in that context whatsoever.

I think what he was trying to express is what many spiritual people believe...that if narrow odds are that you get raped and then further narrow odds are that you get pregnant from that, one might reflect on the broader Cosmic implications of that.

Now, I don't expect everyone to think like that nor do I believe that sort of thinking has any place in our legal system or any impact whatsoever on a woman's right to choose the best decision for our bodies and our lives, I'm just saying that - as a pro-life AND pro-choice female, I kind of understand what he was fumbling around to say.

Originally posted by KhufuKeplerTriangle

Human life has value in adult form too! That is where Repubs really fail.... they kill many adults and claim the kids are valuable...

You make an excellent point here. So God creates life and we should never in any circumstances end said life, Mr. Mourdock? Then where oh where is your outrage that we even manufacture bombs and tanks and such? Are they not for the destruction of other lives? Instead of going to bat for a fetus in the future, why do you not condemn the taking of life in the here & now? The endless wars that, by their very nature, purposefully and accidentally take lives that were gifts from God?!

reply to post by kosmicjack
he really did fumble that delivery LOL

he should have said, some women choose life even in that circumstance, which is very difficult.\
there is always adoption, where the parents don't care where the baby is from,
they just want a baby!

adoption is the #1 solution for women in this position.
abortion can cause scars that make you sterile...
if it has to be done, the pill is the best way, IMO

any later and it's terribly cruel

Has anyone thought about it yet that the whole of Christianity is based on a child that occured from rape?

The Holy Spirit raped Mary to bring forth Jesus.

No wonder fundamentalists condone rape.

Look at all the interpretation all these pro-Murdock people are giving. Must have got training from interpreting the bible to how they think it means.

I'm sure if a RAPE TEAM member says pedophilia is okay, i'm sure their supporters would twist to make it seem like he didn't mean that.

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by windword
So what if many people feel the same way? Many people feel mixed races shouldn't marry too. We don't legislate based on feelings or personal religious beliefs.

Again- your talking about legislation and I am not. You can not legislate all the world's problems away. If you could, there would be no such thing as "dead beat Dads". We have more than enough legislation in place that requires the biological father of a child to pay support... yet so much of it still goes unpaid. I posted about an ideology. A concept. A way of thinking. Not legislation.

Good. The free, largely civil exchange of differing ideologies is why I value this site.

That said, here's my take on this line of thought. Ideology informs votes. Votes select legislators. Legislators enact legislation.

The current republican party enforces purity in it's ranks. That's why Richard Mourdock is the republican senate candidate instead of Dick Lugar, who was popular, quite conservative, and had held his seat for quite some time.

A vote for any republican (no matter how moderate your local candidates are trying to seem) is literally a vote to end women's reproductive rights. In order for this situation to change, moderate republicans will have to put real pressure on the party to reject the extremists.

Originally posted by luciddream
I'm sure if a RAPE TEAM member says pedophilia is okay, i'm sure their supporters would twist to make it seem like he didn't mean that.

Well. That brings up another point. What if the victim of a pedophilia rape gets pregnant at age 13? Did God intend for that life to be concieved also?

Originally posted by HandyDandy
Has anyone thought about it yet that the whole of Christianity is based on a child that occured from rape?

The Holy Spirit raped Mary to bring forth Jesus.

No wonder fundamentalists condone rape.

edit on 25-10-2012 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)

That is a horrible thing to say, although kinda lol.

Please please don't make fun of the gift.

Mary could have refused, but she was not the kind to say no to God.
it might have sounded like a strange thing she had to endure,
but she did such a good job raising him.

imagine if mary had messed up jesus the way the rest of us make mistakes with our kids.

the holy spirit is a protector and guide.

reply to post by KhufuKeplerTriangle


Ah, because when confronted with an angel that says "you will...." that means that she has the ability to consent?

She may have said she is a servant of God and will do God's will, but you have to remember that back then, rape was approved by God and women were on par with cattle as far as having a say in anything that happened to them.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
First...I'm so sick of people injecting their opinion of what God wants into our civil liberties.

Second, this is such a made up controversy. I for one don't think this poor hapless guy meant it in that context whatsoever.

I think what he was trying to express is what many spiritual people believe...that if narrow odds are that you get raped and then further narrow odds are that you get pregnant from that, one might reflect on the broader Cosmic implications of that.

Now, I don't expect everyone to think like that nor do I believe that sort of thinking has any place in our legal system or any impact whatsoever on a woman's right to choose the best decision for our bodies and our lives, I'm just saying that - as a pro-life AND pro-choice female, I kind of understand what he was fumbling around to say.

Thank you!!! Finally a voice of reason. I think you expressed my thoughts much better than I was able to.

Originally posted by Vitruvius
Good. The free, largely civil exchange of differing ideologies is why I value this site.

That said, here's my take on this line of thought. Ideology informs votes. Votes select legislators. Legislators enact legislation.

The current republican party enforces purity in it's ranks. That's why Richard Mourdock is the republican senate candidate instead of Dick Lugar, who was popular, quite conservative, and had held his seat for quite some time.

A vote for any republican (no matter how moderate your local candidates are trying to seem) is literally a vote to end women's reproductive rights. In order for this situation to change, moderate republicans will have to put real pressure on the party to reject the extremists.

The civil exchange of ideologies, thoughts, opinions is one of the things that made this site great. It is sad, in my opinion, that this exchange today is so often misinterpreted. It is something that I believe us older members are referring to when we talk about the "good old days" of this site. Anymore it seems that any differing opinion is not met with an understanding to see another viewpoint, but instead is met with insults and an unwillingness to learn from each other.

I know nothing about Richard Mourdock, so it is interesting to me to hear your take on this. I am simply basing my opinion on the quote within the OP and how it appears to me, which is clearly at odds with many others in this thread.

Although I agree with your assessment of today's Republican Party, it is another debate for another time. I personally feel that BOTH major parties are completely out of touch with the reality of the people and I truly believe an issue such as abortion has no place in Federal Politics. It is just another way to divide the people. Fact is, if I were to have an abortion today, it would not have an effect on your daily life. Issues like this, that have no effect on the daily life of another, are used to divide us all and keep us from discussing the issues that DO effect each and everyone one of us.

reply to post by primus2012


Well he did procreate. He really doen't need them anymore now does he?

Reply to post by campanionator

Well then call me extreme... I am an atheist btw. I don't inject god into anything but I can interpret a man of faiths opinion on a subject such as the one being discussed unlike some people on this site.

Does the baby who is born from rape have free will? even if you take god out of the equation from what murdock said, you still wont get the twisted political agenda interpretation that is said in the OP.


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