My Personal Crisis of Faith

reply to post by grayeagle


As I read this post, the words of the bible jumped out at me.

I was a rabid Bible fanatic.

I went through the same despair you did.

I completely sympathize with you.

The realization that all the effort, resources, and time spent on the bible and blind faith could have been put to good use; worse, that it was all a ruse for exploitation.

I now have resignation that I can never get any of those back.

Yet, though it be not the god of the bible, the koran, or any other earthly holy book, I want to think there is/are unknown supreme being(s) and/or unknown supreme principle/law that metes true justice; perhaps ultimately unknowable.

Hope springs eternal.

One of the most common arguments from people who turned they're backs on God is "If there is a God, why did x happen to me? Why is x [evil] in the world?"

If you say that, then you clearly rarely read the Bible or you didn't do enough trouble to understand it. God will take care of you if you stay in Him. He doesn't cause the bad things to happen to you - you cause it yourself, by repeating sin, cursing people etc. None of us are perfect on Earth so none of us will have a perfect life. But I am a living testimony that committing your entire life to serving YHVH (Note: ENTIRE LIFE) and constantly working on your sin, trying your best not to repeat them and so forth is the way to go. God has blessed me so much since I've done this. Prayers are answered "more often", miracles happen around everything you touch, you even see God communicating with you every day whether it will be spiritual dreams, through the Bible, answer of prayers, or just simple daily happenings.

By staying in God you need to be able to say "No" to going out on Sabbath, say "No" to getting wasted with friends, say "No" to your sexual immortality/lusts.

The best way to know something when struggling with faith, is to approach God yourself, and not ask the world on forums. That is what He would want, don't you think?

(please excuse my language, English is not my first language.)

reply to post by grayeagle


Come to the dark side... Life is more fun in the shadows.

reply to post by grayeagle


I hope you don't ever forget the questions you raise in your op. Too many people want so badly to believe in the biblical god that they totally dismiss all of His evil misdeeds.

That aside, has anyone ever wondered why a god might have created us? I'm sure someone will spew that He loves us, but he couldn't have loved us before creating us - before even knowing us. So, what was His motive? To relieve loneliness? To create an army to fight evil?

Just the fact that he created us proves He had a need. This alone proves the premise that He is perfect to be false. One can't be perfect and in desperate need at the same time.

reply to post by grayeagle


God is everything, therefore God is everywhere, therefore we must wait until every particle in the universe has rejoined.

Until then, the simple truth is, we don't know.


QV.

reply to post by rollsthepaul

Yes and no. Thinking that a church and faith are the same thing keeps many in blasphemous and spiritless churches just as it keeps many from even seeking the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because His name is blasphemied. Our Creator gave the world His commands for a peaceful life, explaining to us the tower and city of Babel parable over hundreds and hundreds of pages. What He says is this: if you will not be accountable to Him, you will be accountable to men,  who know good and evil, but who reject His reign in their lives. By placing our faith and accountability in man, we unnknowingly give that man power over us. WE create the conditions for the "mighty men" and "men of renown" to rise - absolute power absolutely corrupts, and we allow these men to eventually become the bullies, tyrants and dictators of history.  When we turn away from His commands and laws, committing sin, these men get to start creating their own laws to deal with it - building their own prisons, promoting their own interests, indoctrinating our children with their own values, policing and militarisation. It frankly feeds their desire to be "god-like" and it ends up giving them life and death power over the masses. Power and pride corrupts. This happens both in church and in our secular rulers. We are living in it it, seeing our leaders just recently declare "WE BUILT THIS".

Just as God came down to view the city and tower in the plains of Shinar, Jesus came to Jerusalem and found that the Jews had done the very same thing; built a city and tower. How many times do we have to read "For fear of the Jews" before it clicks that these teachers and leaders were making people twice the children of hell so that they themselves had the best places at the banquets, the best seats in the synagogues and total control over their subjects? Why did they seek to kill Jesus? Out of human ENVY - they were not going to give up their earthly power and rule over the people even to the One they purported to worship. The tower, as in the days of Babel, is built with bricks and tar. The Hebrew word for bricks is the same one used for leprosy (sin). It means that these "men of renown" gain their power and rule over us because of our sin. When we grow to love sin, these men grow rich on it, these men get to build their police forces which continually become more and more militarised as the sin grows worse and worse, these men start to gain life and death decisions over us, these men get to arrange the brutalisation of women and children to feed our love of pornography and sexual lusts, these men get to enslave the poor countries on £2 per day because of our love of coveting and materialism etc etc. This power and rule warps them and they grow more and more tyrannical and controlling. They start plotting to rule the world....

This is the reason that I say yes and no to your post. You believe that most people are decent, but decent compared to what? The answer would be to society, not to Our Creator's standards. Their "decency" is directly related to the laws these men pass. Abortion? Forget it's murder. Pornography? Forget it destroys the lives of children and women. Rejecting accountability to your Creator puts that accountability straight into the hands of these "mighty men" - these bullies and tyrants.  Understanding Jesus' statement "Then give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's" enables us to discern between the two. Pray that our leaders and authorities bow down to Christ Jesus as their Lord and King instead of "Caesar", then things will go well for us. But alas, so many today are shouting that they have no king but Caesar. So many are watching the rise of a bullying and tyrannical leadership that is stripping Christ Jesus from our minds, our laws, our courts and our schools and being Godless, we can't see that it's our sins that gives them the power. Dictatorial laws are being passed at an alarming rate, enslaving us at every turn. People are utterly blinded to the fact they they are giving the reign to men who only seek to hold power over them. This past century saw the rise of two Caesars - Tzar and Kaiser.

Jesus stopped the building of the Jew's tower and city, but as all scripture declares, it will just be rebuilt again on the backs of sin and bloodshed in societies which reject His reign. At Pentecost, the witnesses saw His faithful speaking in many languages. The tower and city in the plains of Shinar was given the name Babel because it was there that He confounded the languages. It is why the New Testament was written in Greek, not the language of the Jews.

...but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. John 14:31

The "mighty men" cannot have their subjects learn this lesson for it prevents them from rising.

Originally posted by grayeagle
The answers I have received from the "church" have not been willing to deal with my questions. I have always sensed there is a greater spirit.

But I am having a crisis of faith!

However, it is getting harder for me to imagine a merciful god who would command the utter destruction of men, women and children by the sword as spoken in the Old Testament. Can your justice really be doled out in excruciating fear and pain? Defenseless children destroyed because of their parent’s sin? How can that be justice?

I can’t ignore the contradictions anymore. The world is so full of hunger and pain. The poor we will have with us forever? Really? I have seen first hand what suffering surrounds poverty. Can you really allow that to continue and yet be a merciful God? And why?

A crisis of faith? Yes!

If there is no hope of change for some then there is no hope for me. If I have become a joint heir with Christ and you are my father can I not ask you these questions? How could you change so drastically from the Old Testament God to the New Testament God? If you are the same God how could you order entire cities of men, women and children slain without mercy? How can I as your child feel safe that you won’t in your power and anger decide to punish and destroy me forever? That you won’t command your army to wipe me from the face of the Earth?

“Saved by faith not by works,” but “faith without works is dead,” appear to cancel each other out. I know the standard church explanation for this paradox but I am uncomfortable with it. I have come to know I am totally incapable of changing myself or of saving myself! My greatest works would never be enough! I have believed the fruit of the spirit and the gifts of god are all manifested and directed by the power of your holy spirit. If faith isn’t enough then I have no hope! I feel like I have become one of the bleached skeletons lying amidst others in the dust. Will your spirit breathe life back into me? Back into them? The Bible speaks of such an event. I pray so!

If I have truly become a new creature in Christ, I am afraid I do not see it in my mirror. I have become weary with the hunger and pain and suffering I see in the world. I am heartsick and bone weary. Innocent men, women and children are beaten, starved, raped, abandoned and murdered.

Why was there a different justice applied in the old testament? I don’t understand how your character could change so drastically. “Sin that you once winked at,” doesn’t make sense to me if you are unchangeable.

Why would man’s sin condemn him to eternal pain? Eternal pain and suffering? To what end? Surely it would not be something you need to satisfy a need for revenge. I believe many people have died since Jesus died and never heard the gospel. Would you really exact eternal pain to those who have not accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior because they haven’t heard the gospel? With your supreme power and all of your resources available to you is eternal pain and suffering the only option? I have heard man’s explanation for it but it troubles my soul.

I would take no solace in knowing my enemies were suffering forever and I can’t believe you would either. What satisfaction would that bring? You are described as being long suffering, not willing that anyone should perish. If you save me then I ask that you save them as well. For I have sinned as grievously. I have coveted and lusted. I have hated and lied.

All of creation is crying out for mercy, for healing, for salvation. Even the earth groans. Where is my hope and my salvation? If faith isn’t enough then I am quite lost and condemned forever. I will continue to call upon you though I don’t hear your voice. I really hope and pray you exist because if you don’t then all is for naught.

I am growing old and my body fails me. I am in constant pain. Peace has fled me. Joy is an elusive friend that I have not spent much time with for a long time.
Hear my cry o Lord and attend unto my prayer, restore to me the joy of my salvation. I will try to believe in my heart and confess with my mouth that Jesus is my lord and savior. Beyond that I am at a loss for words.

edit on 06/02/2011 by grayeagle because: I realize this post doesn't completely meet the criteris for this forum. Mods please move as appropriate.

"Thus it is said: The brightness of the Way seems like darkness,
the advancement of the Way seems like retreat,
the level path seem rough,
the superior path seems empty,
the pure seems to be tarnished,
and true virtue doesn't seem to be enough.
The virtue of caution seems like cowardice, the pure polluted,
the true square seems to have no corners, the best vessels
take the most time to complete,
the greatest sounds cannot be heard, and the greatest image has no form.
The Way hides in the unnamed,
Yet it alone nourishes and completes all things."



Keep up the good fight.
If you don't stand for something,
You'll fall for anything.

reply to post by grayeagle

You have made some very good observations which I have also made over the course of time. I do recommend that you keep your faith in God but have a crisis of faith in men instead. I believe much of the Bible was written for men to support the causes of men. If you read Thomas Paine's book, "The Age of Reason" you may gain more insight. I believe many of the things written in the old testament were written for the purpose of justifying wars against the enemies of Israel and pronouncing God's blessing on those evil efforts in the name of religion. Many of the things done were quite barbaric and I really doubt that a just God would condone it. I believe there is much in the Bible that is true but it was really written by men so that must be considered when reading it.

My guess as to the reason why God does not seem to act to correct these things is that we are intended to sort through truth and falsehoods on our own. It may be part of our growing process.

Whatever you do, don't give up your faith in God. I can say from firsthand experience that God is very real.

BaBa, give it a break. You have boxed and limited yourself to the extreme and now you're whining about the results. Maybe better to relax and invite your Soul (WW) and forget all the rest except the lesson that you made your choices and lost. You're not alone.

Apparently you feel time is running out for you. "Like One who on some lonesome road doth walk in fear and dread, and having once turned walks on and turns no more his head. Because he knows a frightful fiend doth close behind him tread." (STC)

Obviously you can't see the forest for the trees of the crap you put between you and the God concept. Obviously you're being drowned by your alleged "learning" as well. You seriously need to clean that (ego) stuff out of your vessel, quickly, before it's too late.

Your ego believes things must be this way or that way. It has distracted your Self with the illusions life presents unable to realize that none of it is real, just as your present concept of yourself is not real. This is only a movie and you're a bit player although your Ego thinks otherwise.

Empty that stuff out and then see what's left. And incidentally, if you're really serious, I mean really serious... then find yourself a nondenominational Monastery and check-in for the duration. What do you have to lose at this late date except all those delusions?

The Faith forced upon you clearly has not served you just as it doesn't serve so many others... maybe time to empty out and fill with Truth. Forget the Bible and the present values of Christianity...seek for your own answers.

Just a thought... check out the early Gnostics and then start doing your own work for a change. You've loaded too much crap onto your plate. Empty it or eat it like all the rest.

Interestingly, the reason some walk the Path with increasingly total commitment is the fear of ending up holding an empty bag just like the one your ego has left you holding now. Fortunately this too will pass and you'll get as many chances as you need, for longer than you want.

Grey Eagle, join the club. The best advice you can get is to forget the lies you've been told, the Bible is not the word of God, it's the word of men. Admit you've been had and move on. Leaving the faith after 22 years was one of the hardest and heartbreaking experiences I've ever been through, but guess what? The grass IS greener on the other side. Now the hard part begins: Learning to think for yourself.

Good luck.

Originally posted by grayeagle
reply to post by jacygirl

 

Thank you for your response! I am no longer actively church pastoring but trying to live my life in a way that supports and encourages others in their struggles. I am endeavoring to be congruent so that what people see on the outside is the same as what I am on the inside. The greatest encouragement to me now is when I hear and meet people who are attempting to do the same. Thanks again for your personal encouragement!

I think your entire "dark night of the soul" experience comes from taking the Bible literally and wrestling with religious dogma. But it doesn't have to be like that; there's another way. You need to read every book of Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong you can get your hands on... he seems to have restored the faith of many who had lost it.

He's very controversial and criticizes what he calls the "terrible parts of the Bible." In his book "The Sins of Scripture -- Exposing the Bible's Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love", he addresses all of the atrocities and genocides in the OT you were talking about, how Genesis has spawned a misogyny that has spanned millennia, why St. Paul is so openly gay-bashing, and much more.

He also wrote other books, such as "A New Christianity for a New World," "Eternal Life: A New Vision: Beyond Religion, Beyond Theism, Beyond Heaven and Hell." I can almost guarantee you, you'll get over this crisis of faith reading this stuff. I wish you all the best.

reply to post by grayeagle


Grayeagle....I just wanted to thank you for your kind words.
I was not raised with any religion but I always had an in-built sense of right and wrong. I seemed to be surrounded by folks who went to church every Sunday....but didn't "walk the walk" the other 6 days.
My beef is not with God....it is with people. People in positions of authority who don't have others' best interests at heart.
jacygirl

Originally posted by 0mage
i believe the Lord requires warriors of faith and not pussy cats. your heart is in the right place. but the question is.. will a loss in faith change you? will there be a change in your heart because uve given up on God if u do decide to? the answer to that question is what will decide if u have been truthful all along. God or no God.. if you change your outlook on life and ppl when u seem to have no hope then perhaps finally it would mean u are being true to yourself.


if you wouldnt change.. regardless of a change to a Godless concept of living then you were always true. and where is your faith if u are still the same as with faith or without faith? so who would you be kidding? what is your threat. you've got to be true.. not just for the eyes u think are upon you... but even when there are no eyes on you. that is the true you. who are you without a ruler over your head? let God know how you really feel.

It is sometimes good to really talk things out in any relationship. When we are not playing hide and seek with each other then we are harmonious. Human religion is to unspecific/unevolved to really show the place you should be just like an outdated map. But a seeker can always find the way.

To the OP. If you want to push your understanding on what Jesus knew about god then you might wanna think a long time about this part of the bible and only this until you get it right. To the right mind this shines and give all the information you need to understand both Jesus, god and yourself. It is like a decipher key. Once you get it right the bible will be a very different read and make more sense.

Matthew 25:31-46

New International Version (NIV)
The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Originally posted by akushla99
Only an empty cup can be filled...

A99

Lol. That is so true on so many levels. Hihihihihihi. . Thank your for being. You made my day.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
reply to post by grayeagle

 

I too was once a man of God until reality hit me, through experienced I begun to understand that if there really is a single higher power, it does not interfere nor care about us. I actually get very heated when I see religious people look down upon people of different faiths and atheists. Peace must come from within you, not from a combination of revised truth and fiction.

en.wikipedia.org...

Not true that it does not interfere or do not care from my experiance but interferens is keep to a minimum. When the student is ready the master appear but need is the key. Some get the amagydala fear reaction like Jesus and some take the gentler road over long time. But beliving different maps are the correct one. Lol. They are all incomplete and somewhat smallminded just like the mind since they do not include all information that was/is and will be.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by grayeagle

 

Sometimes, I wonder if the result of following Jesus were to lead one straight to hell...would people still do it? If there was nothing to be gained by following the teaching of Jesus except unending agony and the self-satisfaction of knowing that you did the right thing, would people still follow him?

This question arises from another thought train: do people do it for heaven, or because it's right? Do they do it for the reward, or for the knowledge that they made someone's life easier? Sometimes, I wonder.

That is what is good with Christianety. It pushes the person to choose either the ego path of following without reason and thinking or the egoless path. On one of the paths you will get into a collision with your view of god and not accept any bullying. Many people have issues with standing up to god on the threat of hell for higher ideals and what is right. .

Originally posted by grayeagle
The answers I have received from the "church" have not been willing to deal with my questions. I have been a pastor in the past but this is my lament. I have always sensed there is a greater spirit. One which I have known and accepted as the Lord Jesus Christ in the past. But I am having a crisis of faith! This is my conversation with God.

I join your saints through the ages crying out for mercy and justice. However, it is getting harder for me to imagine a merciful god who would command the utter destruction of men, women and children by the sword as spoken in the Old Testament. Can your justice really be doled out in excruciating fear and pain? Defenseless children destroyed because of their parent’s sin? How can that be justice?

I just don’t get it!

Lord I don’t understand your mercy. I can’t ignore the contradictions anymore. The world is so full of hunger and pain. The poor we will have with us forever? Really? I have seen first hand what suffering surrounds poverty. Can you really allow that to continue and yet be a merciful God? And why?

A crisis of faith? Yes!

Grey Eagle, I am going to answer your questions with revelation that God has given me because I have asked the same things as you. Now I understand.
First of all you must know that all this pain and suffering in the world is a result of the world rejecting God. This is what you get. And this is how it must be for now. But things are a changing. I'll explain.
Jesus said when he appointed the seventy that the harvest was great but the workers were few. he said to work while it is yet day because the night cometh when no man can work. What he was saying is this: God;s salvation for the world is like a garden. We had the former rain in pentecost. an initial outburst of the spirit to a few to get the garden started. After this the spirit receeded like the rain receeds after planting. Only occasional rain comes between planting and harvest to keep the garden growing. Then at the end of the age of grace when the harvest is ready, God will give another great burst of the spirit to his people known as the latter rain. A double portion this time. It will come when Satan is cast out to the earth, for God says when the enemy comes in like a flood the spirit of the Lord will set up a standard against him.
The early apostles had garments of the spirit. You could see them at times like when Steven was stoned and the glory of God shown on his face. There was great power given to the apostles to work with to get the garden started. There was much more required of them pertaining to Holiness because to whom much is given much is required. In between the planting and the end harvest there is the working of the Holy spirit in a much less quantity therefore since we do not have that amount of power within us we do not have the substance needed to conquer our sins completely in this walk but Grace is sufficient and God understands our weaknesses. Still we must comtinue to pray for forgiveness when we sin and we are forgiven.
There is coming a great pouring out of the spirit inorder to gather in the harvest and batlle satan when he comes.It will be in the first month(Hebrew) and if the vision and experience God gave me is any indication, it will be on a Palm Sunday.
There is an end to injustices and griefs. The millenial reign is near. 144,000 of God's saints, all from the twelve tribes are here now awaiting to be sealed. These are saints that have not been indoctrinated with churches(womens) doctrines. They are spiritually virgins.Sects of faith are not God's will. He told me once in 83(the only time God ever talked to me other than through the bible and unction) he would gather, try and separate until we were one.
Do not question your faith in God. He has all these things in his hand. A time of healing is coming. Stand fast and be courageous. Stop listening to sect doctrines from men. Many now a days are not even called by God but are hirlings. read his word. It is the only place to get the oil you need. Do not be one of the foolish virgins. There will be weeping and nashing of teeth from those who thought they were going to be saved out of this with a rapture only to find themselves still here an apart from the spirit of Shiloh which is coming. It is "NOW" time to pray for the latter rain. Only those who are aware of its coming can do so. You are now aware if you believe these things.
There is much more to say but I cannot give you years of learning in one post. God loves you. Love him and trust him. your fellow servant in Christ.

reply to post by cantyousee


Where is your post in all that? I think you made a mistake with the quoting process.

reply to post by MDDoxs


Wow..
That's a good story.
Thank's for posting it.

reply to post by grayeagle


Congratulations your doubts are leading you to the true path of knowledge and not blind faith. I wish you good luck in your journey to atheism and I assure you that not having to worry about if there is a god or not will be a great weight off your mind.

Also remember humans have inner morals that has no bearing in religion. You won't turn into a psycho because you no longer believe in god. You're an adult and know the difference between right and wrong without reading an old fairy tale to teach you.

Just know that there is no god and you only live once. Make the most of the life you have as it is the only one you will ever have. Good luck with the future.