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My Personal Crisis of Faith

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posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 03:35 AM
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Murder, famine, and pestilence are magnifications of every simple act of evil mankind has commited. It is not the Father's fault. It is ours. But when all is said and done, our spirit will rise towards his light and love, and he will shed all fear, hate, anger, and wounds we bear. He loves us. He loves every single person. I suggest reading OG Mandino's God Memorandum. A small book, but very uplifting.

"You are members of the human race, universally created by God and given free will individually by divine right, and you would not wish to have it any other way. Yet every little act of free will that man has exercised from the beginning of time that was not in accordance with God's plan, multiplied in its impact and its negativity on the future of man. Every simple act of aggression multiplied into acts of world war. Every simple act of greed multiplied into worldwide human suffering and starvation. Every act of destruction of God's environment on Earth multiplied into destructive forces of nature - earthquakes, floods, pestilence, nuclear destruction and nuclear waste. Every act of violence escalated into acts of murder and the extermination of ethnic people for their appearance or beliefs.

Yet, God comes to you again, to appeal to you as a people, to appeal to you as a nation, to appeal to your leaders. His army of angels is visiting upon you with a life force of energy, a spiritual energy radiated by the Creator to all humankind. Many of you feel the vibrancy of his energy and his divine presence. He is communicating with you spiritually, telling you to raise yourselves to the level of spiritual transformation that is necessary for those of you who hear him to spread his message and his energy, to recognize that he is coming.

Guided by prayer and meditation, all men, women, and children may answer his call, but it must be soon. Time is running out! The angels are coming! Do you hear them? Are you listening?

Are you listening?"




posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


You speak so highly of religion but what good has religion really done for mankind. An atheist wouldn't fly a plane into a building, only a brainwashed idiot would do that.


In your search for "truth" I can see that it has blinded you to some realities, in which case, they must be lies. What "truth" has convinced atheists that throwing out Christ's commands from our courts, our laws, our schools and our homes was a "good thing"? You must drive by the prisons overflowing with murderers, rapists, thieves and drug dealers, the baby killing clinics in neighbourhoods, the no-go zones in every major city, the neighbourhoods ruled by terrorising gangs, the neighbourhoods with bars on their doors and windows, the AIDs and VD clinics, the growing homeless communities in vacant lots and the drug dealers and prostitutes pandaring to the out of control lusts etc and think to yourself "yep, denying and disobeying Christ Jesus sure has gotten us to paradise"? These are all consequences of abandoning His command to "Go and sin no more". These are all the consequences of a population that has been indoctrinated by their very own "leaders and teachers" to reject Jesus and to love a new morality that preaches "Do what thou will". But the most deadly of all, is that you are blind to how this behaviour creates the bullies and tyrants of the world who gain their power over you in the process. We are watching the militarisation of our police forces to deal with these consequences, new dictatorial laws being passed, prisons being built etc etc... all because we stopped being accountable to Our Creator and instead became accountable to man. This is true equally within large churches as it is in secular society. The "Nepheliam" are back...the mighty men who became bullies and tyrants by the sins of their own people.

Christ Jesus has ruled and reigned for close to 1,700 years, holding back the coming wrath so that our countries could offer places of salvation to those seeking it. Faith has allowed it to be possible, but as prophecied, man will eventually choose the wrong son of the wrong father, having been swayed by those same "teachers and leaders" to reject their Saviour. In your mind you cannot separate religion from faith, and unfortunately, by doing so, you cannot discern between a son of God and a son of perdition - just as the blinded Jews couldn't 2,000 years ago.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by WhoKnows100
 


Is this the old atheists have no morals ridiculous argument. It's funny, I have been an atheist since I have been old enough to form my own opinions and I have never raped murdered or robbed anybody.

Religion is responsible for far more pain and suffering than atheism ever will, look at the crusades, Hitler and Northern Ireland. These atrocities didn't involve atheism they mainly involved one religion turning against another or in Northern Ireland's case Christians against Christians with slight differences in their beliefs.

You won't see an atheist kill another atheist and try justify it cos they don't believe in god in different ways. Yes there are bad atheists who will commit crimes but there are also bad Christians who commit crimes. Look at America, it is full of Bible bashers and yet the prisons are full to bursting.

The laws and education in any country should not be influenced in any way by religion. There is NO proof that a god exists and any evidence that Jesus existed is sketchy at best so why should we live our lives influenced by people who believe in that nonsense?

Why should an atheist, a muslim, a buddhist or a hindu child be educated or governed under the influence of christianity. I assure you that my children will never go to a religious school and if a teacher ever tried to teach the dogmatic nonsense to them I would do my utmost to have them removed from their job. Schools are there to educate children in known facts, religion should only be taught as part of history but a teacher should never tell a child that there is a god as with no proof it is a lie.

Government should be completely separate from religion, the USA pioneered a secular government but religion has seeped its way in and destroyed the fabric of the american constitution. They will never ever get the best man for the job as president, they will only ever get the best christian for the job or muslim if rumours about obama are anything to go by.

The irony is the British government who rule over me is not secular, there is no separation between church and state yet the religion of politicians is not even discussed when they are campaigning. The people of Britain excluding the muslims flooding in is becoming far and far more atheist yet our crime rate is lower than the USA which is extremely christian.

EDIT - I also see that you are not fond of the Jews, why? Is it because they have ever done anything to you? No it is simply because they do not share your beliefs. What a nice guy you must be.
edit on 26-10-2012 by GafferUK1981 because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-10-2012 by GafferUK1981 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by GafferUK1981
Wow you really are a delusional fella, you do realise that the OP is losing his faith. He is finally realising the truth that there is no good. What kind of people would us atheists be if we did not provide support for somebody who may break free from the shackles of religion and have the desire to educate themselves.

I know you are certain that there is a god but without proof you simply have blind faith. There is no more likely a god than there is an Easter bunny.

You may try condescend us atheists but as we are the ones who actively seek the truth rather than believe in an ancient madness we are the ones who should be condescending towards you.

You speak so highly of religion but what good has religion really done for mankind. An atheist wouldn't fly a plane into a building, only a brainwashed idiot would do that.


Such arrogance born out of ignorances.

You atheists often use the question of God's existence to confuse and con others to your kind's brand of insane stupidity, as if your kind alone know the truth, when our science which you hold dear is still at infant stage, with very much more unknown, unanswered, and yet to discover.

Religion is not just all about God's existence. He wouldn't have cared what infants think. If He wanted to, we would have statues and pictures of Him on every wall. But He forbade it.

What is MOST CRITICAL is that mankind FOLLOW His moral and ethical guides using our gift of free will to progress and evolve. It was His teachings He taught, as well as spread by His divine teachers sent over time to help us. This is what religion is and had done for mankind.

Would apes or tigers know such laws as 'Thou shalt not kill', or 'Thous shalt not steal' ? They don't. They were not created for civilisation.

I know some atheists would argue that it was simply a progression of existing together that such laws came into being 'natuarally' in order to co-exist. That's insane if not utter stupidity. Crockoches is touted as the longest living specimen on Earth. Do they build cities and land on the moon? Fools claim we descended from monkeys as a distinct branch, but there were many branches, hundred of simian class, yet why were we the only ones who progress out of that hundreds, while apes who lived together as long as we have cannot even build a shelter to protect themselves from the elements?

Those moral and ethical guidelines of mainstream religions did not simply grew out of nothing. It came from a higher intelligence, and it had led to our progress and evolution of today, and will to our future.

Where do atheists get their sense of morality and ethics from? They certainly did not get it just by being born, but through being taught by parents, schools, friends, environments and experiences - learning from others whom had similarly taught since the dawn of civilisation.

Although our civilisation's history had not been illustrious, as evident by conflicts, disasters and wars, it was more often a result of mankind, or the elites of mankind that had been tampering with the moral and ethical guides taught, straying from it, fooling mankind and resulted in suffering and pain.

Humans are flawed anyway, we make mistakes, but we do have the capacity to reason and logic, to determine faults and correct them to progress and evolves, as evident by our survival till today.

However, some will argue that those guidelines seemed draconian. It was never meant to be. It can be amended to progress and evolve over time, as mankind had grown and evolve from the caves and jungles, without losing its purpose and essence. The Fundamentalist Jews, Christians and Muslims made the mistake of not evolving, but had attempted to make those guidelines even more draconian, dogmatic and robotic.

One example is the Sabbath. The jewish rabbis spent decades arguing and deciding just over what constitutes work and non-work for the Sabbath, confusing themselves and enforcing robotic modes into humanity. The moral and ethical guideline is very simple, as our Messiah had taught - keep it Holy.

It is the heart and essense of what the sabbath was for, and not what we can do or not do enforced and imposed. No point a man follows a law on the Sabbath, but in his heart bears hatred for his neighbour or covetness for his neighbour's wife.

I can go on and on over more such dogmatic laws that man created.

Religion is not supposed to be tyranny, and neither is mankind supposed to be ruled by tyranny. The last king anointed had been Saul, and after that, there were none, for authoritarian rule by human had proven a disaster even by the best of men.

Henceforth, after Saul, men was to be governed through an assembly, to share, discuss, debate and find solutions to progress and evolve. Our Messiah and prophet Muhammad left no heir nor appointed anyone, intentionally.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by TitanBCE
 



Murder, famine, and pestilence are magnifications of every simple act of evil mankind has commited. It is not the Father's fault. It is ours.


If all the Biblical accounts are to be taken as fully true and accurate, he gave us that capability. If you give a man a gun and tell him its his choice whether he kills a human out of anger or an animal out of hunger, his actions from that point until the gun is returned are your responsibility, as you enabled him.

This is how the court of law looks at it, and quite honestly, I'm inclined to agree. If it changes just because you're a guy called "God", then all rules and morals are pointless, because at that point, you become a hypocrite. It's called a 'double standard'.


He loves us. He loves every single person. I suggest reading OG Mandino's God Memorandum. A small book, but very uplifting.


A father dos not put a belt next to the cookie jar in anticipation of you stealing a cookie. He removes the cookie jar. Just so, a loving god does not prepare a place of eternal torment, knowing each and every person who will sit in each seat as its crafted, yet not making a single move to change that person's influences and choices to spare them such a fate.

No one seems to understand this, and I cannot determine whether they are unable to comprehend it, or they choose not to. It isn't difficult to understand that an omiscient, omnipotent and benevolent being whose intentions fall precisely in line with the Bible's claims would do its damnedest to ensure that all of its creations are given every chance to meet its standards. Furthermore, since our purpose is evidently a solitary mission to glorify him by whatever means are acceptable, one would think that he wouldn't give a damn about giving us opportunities to defy him.

Psychologically speaking, he's either playing with us or no longer gives a rat's ass. And my logic goes thus: if he thinks like a human being, as Christians are so fond of implying, then he will have a human mentality. And according to human psychology, he's a psychopathic egomaniac - just to start with.


Yet, God comes to you again, to appeal to you as a people, to appeal to you as a nation, to appeal to your leaders.


For such an omnipotent being, I can think of a dozen occasions off the top of my head where not a single man saw "God" except in abstract, which could easily have been interpreted a half dozen other waysif they'd been thinking more clearly. A bit difficult to do, if you're stranded on Normandy or Iwo Jima.


He is communicating with you spiritually, telling you to raise yourselves to the level of spiritual transformation that is necessary for those of you who hear him to spread his message and his energy, to recognize that he is coming.


You know, if ANY Christianm could actually demonstrate to me that they understood the first thing about omniscience or omnipotence and how a benevolent being with such properties would treat its creations, instead of consistently applying anthropomorphic qualities to it and acting as though such an entity is even remotely comparable to how we humans think (it's rather disgusting to watch this comparison and resultant assumptions take place - sort of like a child insisting that their version of algebra is better when they can't even accomplish simple multiplication) I would be more inclined to listen to you.

As it is, no Christian has proven this to me. And my point stands - a being of such omniscient and omnipotent nature would be as comparable to human nature as a bonfire is comparable to a grain of sand, respectively. And yet, Christians will continue to apply anthropomorphic features to a being they can't even wrap their minds around. Such is desperation, and we see its fruits every day we live.


He is communicating with you spiritually, telling you to raise yourselves to the level of spiritual transformation that is necessary for those of you who hear him to spread his message and his energy, to recognize that he is coming.


Prayer, otherwise known as the Law of Attraction, originally a form of witchcraft - due to its psychic nature. Believe me, I've done the research. Law of Attraction, or 'prayers' if you want to get dogmatic about it, is one of the purest, most basic forms of witchcraft you are likely to encounter in this day and age.

You send out a desire, and because of your faith in this "God" dude, you believe it has been answered. You have utter confidence that you will be heard. As a result, as soon as you see any indication of an answer, you are vindicated in your belief, and thus, the ritual is completed. It's sleight of mind. As long as you believe, it is real, because you don't even consider the possibility that it may have failed.

(Con't)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by TitanBCE
 


(Continued from previous post)

Because the possibility of failure isn't present, all you have left is the certainty of success. Again, basic psychology. All you have to do is convince yourself that you've succeeded, and failure becomes nonexistent. You wouldn't recognize it if failure slapped you in the face. You'd laugh and call it a lie, because the real illusion has become tangible in your own mind.

There you go. I just explained the mystery of prayer. It's the Law of Attraction combined with basic self-hypnosis. See how powerful we are, without even realizing it? It's beautiful - or it would be, if we applied it properly.

But since when have we applied anything properly? All we're interested in is serving ourselves.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 





I hope it's not because you think a pastor is some how super human and not beyond doubt, struggles with faith, or anything else the average man suffers from? There is a reason the congregation is supposed to pray for the pastor. He is under that much more stress.


Not even Saraph. Do you think I'm that hard, to not consider all you've said ? You make me out to be very insensitive you know that? No that's not why I don't believe him. It's because he sounds like a wolf in sheeps clothing. The wounds to his faith and reasoning are nothing any Pastor doesn't overcome early on. Since we aren't face to face. I choose not to believe what would amount to tiny scratches to my own faith. You can pamper and believe him if you want. I've seen no reason to by into this.

Hell he's barely interested in this thread Seraph ! BTW I've never had a crisis like this. Guess I'm lying huh? Or a wolf ? I remain skeptical.
edit on 26-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


One doesn't have to be a liar to tell a lie.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Yes, AI I agree with that of course and I say it all the time myself.
This is an odd thread for me !
edit on 26-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


You talk down to me like I am incorrect yet you have nothing to back up your beliefs. What you call divine prophets I call primitive poorly educated men. They wrote fairy tales, they didn't know any better.

Your grasp on evolution is ridiculous, cockroaches have been around longer than us but do they have the brainpower or bodily mechanics to create a vehicle to get to the moon, of course not.

We are not the only ape to live in a civilisation, just observe chimps and gorillas. We are just the most intelligent if all the apes yet sometimes you wouldn't think it with the daft stuff I read in here.

You really need educating. Science isn't your enemy it just happens to be that science has made discoveries that show the bible to be a fraud. You're simply one of a hopefully dying breed who is too scared to let religion go. It is a failed concept anyway, not worth preserving.

You're correct about science being in its infancy and it has already shown that there isn't a god. Imagine what it will achieve as it grows further.
edit on 26-10-2012 by GafferUK1981 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by GafferUK1981
 





They wrote fairy tales, t


Gaff With all do respect. Is the seriousness of the Bible something you find in fairy tales ? What fairy tales do you read ? I think the comparison is ignorant and just a toy people use to belittle. I would stop with that if I were you.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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What is real, what is not and who is who, on the internet?

No one knows.

A Samaritan gives water to a stranger who he saw lying down by the road from far. The stranger is no one to him, and yet the samaritan who needed the water, was willing to share.

Was that man lying down the road in need of water? Or was he just a vagrant sleeping by the side of road? The Samaritan asked nothing, only shared his water freely, and went on his way.

If the stranger was truly in need of water, he would have gained more than water - faith in humanity that someone do cares. If not, he would have gain a bit of satisfaction in conning someone else - a man unknown to him, not much to be proud of there anyway.

Did the Samaritan lose anything? Perhaps a few mouthfuls of water, which can be replenished at the next spring, but he obtained something greater - that he had not been apathetic, and shared what he could, to a fellow human. He lived up to his standards and of a progressive society's standard - to leave none behind.

ATS threads are open to all, to freely speak up. One does has the choice and free will, to participate, or not to. Post constructively made will help not just the OP, but other readers as well. Negatively made ones will only show one's mentality.

Just an observation. Not meant to offend.
edit on 26-10-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by GafferUK1981
 


Thank you for your reply. May you find happiness with your delusions, and hopefully, this thread will no longer be derailed by religious ignorant folks, and return back to sharing of serious issues amongst those whom seek enquiries about religious matters.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 



Point taken and I like your reasoning immensely. I now stand corrected and ask forgiveness sighting my imperfections to blame. Excellent post.

Too ready with the sword I suppose.



I'll stick to fishing from now on.
edit on 26-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 



Gaff With all do respect. Is the seriousness of the Bible something you find in fairy tales ? What fairy tales do you read ? I think the comparison is ignorant and just a toy people use to belittle. I would stop with that if I were you.


As a child, we ascribe the same seriousness to Santa Claus. As a species, we are teenagers, reluctant to release our preconceptions because we are afraid to admit uncertainty. To admit uncertainty is to admit the necessity of trial and error, something that terrifies us because we've spent our whole lives under the wing of our own illusions. The necessity of trial and error suggests we must let go of our security blankets and jump from the nest in an effort to fly, but we don't trust anyone to show us how to fly because all too often, we see in them the same potential we see in ourselves: the potential to destroy others for self gain.

We see our monsters mirrored in others, and that's why we're so afraid. We're afraid of ourselves. Oh, and one more thing: comparison is used to help people understand something they find themselves unable or unwilling to relate to. It's an effort to reach some common ground in a discussion, and your rejection is a rejection of this attempt. It is why I grow frustrated when I talk to you - you refuse to listen to anything you don't want to hear. And you will even refuse to listen to the sentence that precedes this one, but now that I have mentioned it, you will save face and attempt to debunk or divert the allegation. And now you will choose a different tactic.

We shall see if you continue to avoid this contention, or face it head on and realize your own reluctance. The first step to progression is admission of flaw, my friend. I do not say this to belittle or attack you...I am simply helping you to improve your communication skills by at least allowing the possibility that you may be wrong, or at least not absolutely right. Take it as you will, I am only trying to help.

If you let me, I can give you a deeper understanding of the difference between faith and selective reasoning.


edit on 26-10-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


I'm stunned that you can call me delusional when you live by an ancient belief system that has no supporting evidence and has become so convoluted that it has many variations.

I just chose to base my beliefs on knowledge with supporting evidence. I am rational and far from delusional. Read the god delusion and you'll discover how delusional you are.

I have as much right to comment on this thread as anyone. The man is having a crisis of faith, he is questioning the existence of a god and as an atheist who has also gone from believing in god at a young age to dismissing the notion of a god as I became more intelligent I think it is appropriate that I am here to help should he chose to believe in what man knows rather than what man hopes for.

It seems that the Christians here arrogantly feel he has just had a slip and needs putting back on the religious track. You need to consider that religion might not be meant for this man after all and I am here to let him know that atheism is a very fulfilling and happy option. We don't grasp at straws we deal in facts.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by GafferUK1981
 



You need to consider that religion might not be meant for this man after all and I am here to let him know that atheism is a very fulfilling and happy option.


There is a circle of a dozen men, all of whom look at the world in different ways. Six of these men choose a scientific perspective, albeit with different constructs, different laws, and different areas of study by which to define the path of life. The other six view the world from a spiritual perspective, choosing to study varying philosophies and determine the existence of several different forms of divinity, varying from forces of energy to physical beings existing in a different plane.

One of these spiritual men says, "This is the divinity I believe in." The others disagree to different degrees of extent, and agree on some details but reject others.

One of the scientific men looks at the spiritual man who had spoken and says, "That is utterly ridiculous. And because of your claims, I choose to reject all of your fellows as well."

"But we disagree!" exclaims another man of spirituality. "We may share some ideas, but on the whole, we are very different!"

"You still study the same area," replies the scientific man, "and so you must also be wrong."

The man of spirituality who first spoke was a Christian, and the man who rejected him was an atheist. Do you see how narrow the atheist reaction is? Just because Christianity holds the monopoly on religions, doesn't mean it doesn't have the right idea in some shape or form. An old man may hold very little resemblance to his 12 year old self, but that 12 year old is still there, deep inside.

Just so, Christianity still holds a very significant truth, deep within itself. However, the aesthetic flaws distract the population continually...perhaps there's a reason for this?


My point here is, just because a religion is wrong, doesn't make spirituality in itself wrong. It just says you have a fool who doesn't know what he's talking about. The subject and the fool are not synonymous. We should all know this.

Keep this in mind, atheists.
edit on 26-10-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


How does all that validate the simple comparison ? It isn't always necessary to reach so deeply AI. Unless you are defending an unreasonable stance such as" the Bible is a fairytale ". Nothing will change my view on that or how ridiculous the comparison really is. Seems that you attempt to muddy clear waters.

As a child ? Really ?
edit on 26-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 



How does all that validate the simple comparison ? It isn't always necessary to reach so deeply AI.


If you don't reach deeply, how do you ever find the diamonds?



Unless you are defending an unreasonable stance such as" the Bible is a fairytale ".


The Bible is the most ridiculous rendition of spirituality I have ever seen. If you want true spirituality, look to Buddhism. That does for an excellent start, and doesn't sound like Stalin's personal diary.


Nothing will change my view on that or how ridiculous the comparison really is. Seems that you attempt to muddy clear waters.




Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by randyvs
 



Gaff With all do respect. Is the seriousness of the Bible something you find in fairy tales ? What fairy tales do you read ? I think the comparison is ignorant and just a toy people use to belittle. I would stop with that if I were you.


It is why I grow frustrated when I talk to you - you refuse to listen to anything you don't want to hear. And you will even refuse to listen to the sentence that precedes this one, but now that I have mentioned it, you will save face and attempt to debunk or divert the allegation. And now you will choose a different tactic.



It appears I am psychic. You have diverted my allegation and attempted to imply that I am deliberately unclear in my reasoning.

You are like talking to a child who sticks their fingers in their ears and goes, "LALALALA I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALA!!!"

Very rarely can I have an intelligent conversation with you. Since you have proven my prediction correct, I will take this opportunity to close this discussion between us because I don't waste my time on those who do not listen to me. I have listened to you, and your logic is more holey than the Pope.

I'm sorry to have failed you, but this is a pointless exercise. Have a good day.



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Buddhism ? You're right this is as pointless as Buddha.

Your assumptions are a fallacy all their own.

And what did you think you would succeed at BTW ?

Also you look for diamonds where I look for truth.
edit on 26-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)





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