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Ryan: "I just don't understand" bayonet remark

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posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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**ATTENTION**

Please post regarding the topic, or don't post at all.

Thank You.

~Tenth




posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


I was posting regarding the topic.....I was called a racist for saying the manner of combat changed from the 80 s, making bayonets more useful.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Empty rifles are more easily reloaded with a fresh magazine than it would be to pig-stick some guy in the heat of a firefight. I'd rather trust a knife in my hand than a bayonet on the end of a useless rifle. Obama was right when he suggested they're backward

Fixed bayonets look good at parade and military funerals, though.


edit on 23/10/12 by masqua because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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War still gets down to the last man standing even when the ammo runs out.

Afghanistan bayonet charge:

www.politicalforum.com...



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


No my point is that somehow you tried to turn this into calling Obama a liar when this whole thing is about an analogy between new technology and old which fit perfectly but like I said I may be giving to much credit because to me the meaning was obvious but hey if you think differently and want to argue semantics instead then I am not the one who is blind.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by masqua
Ask yourselves this question:

How often, in any battle during the Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, have you heard the command 'Fix Bayonets'?

Pffft


The British Army performed bayonet charges during the Falklands War (see Battle of Mount Tumbledown), the Second Gulf War, and the war in Afghanistan.[35] In 2004 in Iraq at the Battle of Danny Boy, the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders bayonet charged mortar positions filled with over 100 Mahdi Army members. The ensuing hand to hand fighting resulted in an estimate of over 40 insurgents killed and 35 bodies collected (many floated down the river) and 9 prisoners. Sergeant Brian Wood, of the Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment, was awarded the Military Cross for his part in the battle.[36] This engagement brought to notice the tactical use of the weapon for close combat and the sheer psychological effect it can have.
British forces in Afghanistan have used bayonets on numerous occasions. In 2009, Lieutenant James Adamson, aged 24, of the Royal Regiment of Scotland was awarded the Military Cross for a bayonet charge whilst on a tour of duty in Afghanistan: after shooting one Taliban fighter dead Adamson had run out of ammunition when another enemy appeared. Adamson immediately charged the second Taliban fighter and bayoneted him.[37] In September 2012, Lance Corporal Sean Jones of The Princess of Wales's Regiment was awarded the Military Cross for his role in a bayonet charge which took place in October 2011.[38]
source



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 

Does anybody see that Romney missed a golden opportunity to make Obama look foolish here? Obama opined that we only need 285 ships because the world is different than a hundred years ago.... yeah sure.... BUT.... What really happened here is that (as Romney declared), the Navy requested 313 ships to do the job it was tasked to do... and the Obama admin only budgeted for 285. Romney should have shot back with something like...... "Yes Mr. President, things are certainly different today.. but where do you get off telling the Navy what you think they need? - They clearly asked for 313 and your administration thinks they know better than the people out in the field doing the actual work -- but this should come as no surprise because the Obama administration has a long history of telling people what it thinks they need (ie: Obamacare)".



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


Romney was comparing NUMBERS of SHIPS that were surfaced in 1917 versus the number we have today. Sure, we don't have as many sailing vessels for our Navy, however, there are BUDGET CUTS in play after the election that would DOWNSIZE our Navy from what it is now. Romney wants to make sure that our Navy, our Air Force and Marines and Army are adequate to defend America if needed.

The LOGIC is sound !



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy

Oh, that's right, the hero's guns never go empty.... in the movies, or the Internet, apparently.


When I was in the army, there was no internet at all and Dr. Strangelove was a brand new film.
Even way back then, bayonet training was considered useless.

Just so you know.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by timetothink
 


No my point is that somehow you tried to turn this into calling Obama a liar when this whole thing is about an analogy between new technology and old which fit perfectly but like I said I may be giving to much credit because to me the meaning was obvious but hey if you think differently and want to argue semantics instead then I am not the one who is blind.


Of course it was an analogy but was it required to present it like a condescending 10 year old in a school yard instead of an adult, never mind president. Anyone does this in my face and the conversation just turned very, very ugly as I don't always maintain self-control



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by masqua
reply to post by butcherguy
 


Empty rifles are more easily reloaded with a fresh magazine than it would be to pig-stick some guy in the heat of a firefight. I'd rather trust a knife in my hand than a bayonet on the end of a useless rifle. Obama was right when he suggested they're backward

Fixed bayonets look good at parade and military funerals, though.


edit on 23/10/12 by masqua because: (no reason given)
I am sorry, but you don't seem to get that there are times when ammunition is non-existent.

It is more of the movie warrior thing again.... 'Oh, you just put a fresh magazine in and shoot some more!'

If you keep shooting in the real world, you run out of ammo at some point.

If it is hand to hand combat, then both combatants are likely out of ammo.

Picture this, hand to hand combat, you have a knife in your hand, the Chinese soldier has an empty assault rifle with bayonet fixed. Who has a better chance of survival? Wouldn't you rather be the guy with a couple of feet more reach?



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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when i read the quote i kind of assumed
or maybe hoped
that what Obama was referring to is the [hoped for] decrease and eventual cessation
of global hostilities
and therefore a lessening need for the implements of war.

but who am i fooling? only myself. let's argue for forty thousand pages about how to use bayonets, instead.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by illuminated0ne
reply to post by SrWingCommander
 


President Obama never claimed anyone stopped using bayonets. He said we use less bayonets, which is true.

Bayonets are generally for close quarters fighting. War has changed, and tactics have changed, weapons have changed, and fighting from a distance has become the norm. So there is less and less close quarters fighting, and less need for a bayonet.



I love all the armchair military out there...........

I mean is this the real issue? The real issue should be how we are implementing our military in the first place.....

That being said......

there is still PLENTY of close quarters fighting, I suppose everyone who loves Obamas response on this has completely forgot about all the urban fighting and house clearing we (yes i said we cause i was one of the many who had to do it) had to, and still have to do?

Having a large knife at arms length you can use while being able to stay out of striking range is def preferable....

Not to mention the stop and go gun battles that happen quite often, ammo starts to run scare.....guess what happens then?

How bout we keep the speculation and b.s. to a minimum and actually listen to people who were in the service, instead of pretending to be experts eh?
edit on 23-10-2012 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by butcherguy

Oh, that's right, the hero's guns never go empty.... in the movies, or the Internet, apparently.


When I was in the army, there was no internet at all and Dr. Strangelove was a brand new film.
Even way back then, bayonet training was considered useless.

Just so you know.

Oh, okay. I apologize.

I never considered that senility was the problem. I try my best to respect elders.

With regard to bayonets, they are still mounted on rifles.
Many modern ones double as wire cutters.
They are still issued to troops serving in developed countries.
They are not just knives.
Ammo runs out, especially when you are outnumbered.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by tkwasny

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by timetothink
 


No my point is that somehow you tried to turn this into calling Obama a liar when this whole thing is about an analogy between new technology and old which fit perfectly but like I said I may be giving to much credit because to me the meaning was obvious but hey if you think differently and want to argue semantics instead then I am not the one who is blind.


Of course it was an analogy but was it required to present it like a condescending 10 year old in a school yard instead of an adult, never mind president. Anyone does this in my face and the conversation just turned very, very ugly as I don't always maintain self-control

I think it fit perfectly and was presented perfectly.

Obviously the meaning is been twisted to such a degree not only in here but if you haven’t noticed there are three threads on this subject on ATS right now and Fox is doing the same thing. It is damage control.

I needed to chime in on the matter because I find the entire debate over this as childish and a distraction from real issues.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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Still no one on Obamas side can admit he lied about the amount of bayonets currently in use and as the commander in chief he should know better?



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy

I never considered that senility was the problem.


So now I'm senile...


When all else fails on the internet, resort to personal attacks, right? Good for you. Too bad you can't stick a knife on it.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by butcherguy

I never considered that senility was the problem.


So now I'm senile...


When all else fails on the internet, resort to personal attacks, right? Good for you. Too bad you can't stick a knife on it.
We have been warned, the subject is bayonets, not knives.

You didn't ever tell us what you would rather have in your hands in the hypothetical situation that I presented.
Would you rather be a knife wielder in a bayonet fight?

For the record, I did not call you senile. In fact, I said that I never considered it.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:16 PM
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Nobody in the military has needed a bayonet or a horse for many decades. Battleships are also useless technology and do nothing against poppy farmers and other people bent on revenge for heinous acts committed by the US. Romney only wants battleships because the battleship makers are funding him. Obama should have said that.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by buster2010
Of course he doesn't understand the remark because he knows nothing of the military. If it isn't game of counting ships the why is he and Romney complaining about fewer ships? "To keep our strength abroad" this says he supports our Navy protecting other nations instead of protecting our coastal waters which is their main job. Ryan is clueless and this interview shows it.


Other than to be a snippy remark used as a putdown I don't understand it either and I have 28 years in the military... Please explain it to me..





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