The 144,000 and the "eunuchs" for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.

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posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 05:48 AM
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I came across this strange verse in Matthew 19:11-12

12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.


Break up :
1. Some eunuchs are born that way.
2. Some are made that way.
3. Some made themselves that way for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.

Now, nowhere in the bible do we ever read of followers of Christ making themselves eunuchs for the sake of kingdom of heaven. So I guess we can assume that the third group of Eunuchs only lived as eunuchs in the sense they refrained from sexual activity with women.

Some translations of the verse in question teaches that the they...

....have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven.
(New International Version)

....some choose not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven.
(New Living Translation)

...are celibate because they have made themselves that way for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.
(International Standard Version)

Basically steering away from the idea that the third group of eunuchs literally became eunuchs. (ouch)
I personally am more inclined to believe that they only became as eunuchs by refraining from sexual activity with women, for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.

Later on in revelations we read the 144,000 who are described as being extremely righteous and virgins by not having had sex with women.Could it be that this extreme group of people who "became as eunuchs" were part of the 144,000.

Discuss.
Please keep it civil.


edit on 23-10-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 05:59 AM
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I always thought a eunuch referred to the servants of old who had their manhood removed so they could mingle with the kinds concubines, being that the kings of old like their women only for themselves.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 06:58 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Or it could just be an ancient text that uses examples to attempt to impart teachings.... why the literal interpretation? Do you interpret the whole bible as being literal?

PA



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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People practised asceticism in more extreme ways in ancient times. Today this verse would be interpreted as "virgin" or "celibate" rather than "balls cut off."

It's pretty amusing if you take all of this literally: it went from "Be fruitful and multiply." to "Cut off your balls Heaven's sake!"



Okay I'm done talking about castration, the brutality of it reminds me of female circumcision.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Basically steering away from the idea that the third group of eunuchs literally became eunuchs. (ouch)
I personally am more inclined to believe that they only became as eunuchs by refraining from sexual activity with women, for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.


Which do you think is more difficult, to be a mental eunuch or physical eunuch?

Personally, I would think the former is more difficult. To be a physical eunuch, all desire to commit sexual sin is gone for the rest of your life!


Here are the reasons why having relationships with women is a stumbling block to spirituality:

Most often, women tend to be social conformists - in biblical terms - to conform to the image of the world which Jesus regarded as evil. Women also tend to be hell bent on self-preservation which also causes the attitude of social conforming, playing safe, whatever. They are lovers of security, whether financial or physical which Jesus teaches against!

They love stability as opposed to change. To be in a meaningful relationship with women, you'll have to bend over their rules. They take everything seriously and give much value to the things of this world, which Jesus instructed to give no value...

"Honey, Jesus said to sell our stuff that is not needed for survival and give the proceeds to the poor" And divorce is quickly in order!


"Honey, Jesus told we should pack our bags and head over to the slums in South Africa with our kids because no one is preaching the Gospel to them" They quickly head to granny's house!


"Honey, I think we should quit inviting our friends to our dinner parties and invite the poor and strangers instead as Jesus instructed" You're sleeping outside!


"Honey, we should empty our banks and give it to the poor for John the baptist commanded, if we had extras, give it to those who had none" Get out of the house right now!!


"Honey, we're moving to a smaller house in a cheaper neighborhood, we're selling our big house to give the proceeds to the poor. We don't need all these comfort when the rest of the world wallows in poverty, besides, if we find our lives, give value to it, we are not putting God first in our lives but rather in ourselves" I don't know you anymore, get out you cultist!!


You simply cannot be in a radical relationship with God if you are in a relationship with women.

I know there are women who are exceptions.... but they tend to be ugly physically!

Coincidence???

I'm not trying to make fun out of women. I'm just stating facts, real life observations and being frank about it. We need to wake up!!!!!

Beauty is of the devil!!!

Also given the teachings of Jesus and the real Christianity, only few will ever make it to salvation. Bringing children into this world is just damning souls to hell
Regardless of whether you're Christian parents. the odds are all against you. Stop this madness already. Raising families is satanic concept. If your home is in heaven why put any value to perpetuating your bloodline?
edit on 23-10-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


I am not Christian, but I agree with everything you said in your post.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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I am Christian and honestly I have no clue what that means, doesn't seems important for my spiritual developement anyway.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by ahnggk
 


I am not Christian, but I agree with everything you said in your post.




I did a quite sensitive explanation and you agreed... You are a brave man!


Actually, even in Gospel of Thomas and teachings by Paul, they also regard relationships with women as traps to worldliness which Jesus regards as wickedness.

I found no conspiracy in it. It is very much observable in real life. Jesus commanded a lifestyle of extreme austerity and aversion to social conformity - good luck finding a woman with such attitude in life!


Everything a woman wants to see in a man is just the opposite of what Jesus wants to see in a man!

I don't mean to generalize women because there will always be exceptions...

But certainly avoid physically attractive women! Beauty corrupts! Christian women don't make much difference. They won't budge from the popular false doctrines either! For the false doctrines allow worldliness to exist with Godliness!
edit on 23-10-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


Not sure I agree with everything you stated, but I agree with theme.

Basically the material world and basic pleasures of the flesh are what bind you to Earth and restrain you spiritually. This is why holy men take vows of chastity, poverty, etc. Living a life of less frees you spiritually.

This is why I don't like when people say why don't they just let priests get married??? Which relationship would get most of your attention, the one with God or your wife? We all know the answer to that.

A priest must live a life of less in order to achieve closeness to God and then en part what is learned to his congregation.

Hey if you want to see a fun movie that touches on a lot of these themes and other Zen-like themes pick up a movie starring David Carradine called "Circle of Iron".



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 06:15 PM
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This is not said in a defensive voice but humble.

I was a beauty in my younger days, I had turned down 4 marriage proposals before I asked my hubby to marry me on Leap Year Day.

I have given money to tramps and it was my hubby that criticised me.

I pursue truth and philosphy and love books.

I have given even when we were in serious debt. (I didn't get us in debt, it was the tax man.)

I have been a leader in my church.

On a course, my hubby was given a word, that I was a Princess warrior. I love the colour pink yet a nickname I got was 'curly burly girly', cos my body shape was an inverted V. In my twenties I had an athletic shape as I used to canoe, horseride, badminton, marshal arts, biking, archery, trampolining and others.

And I scare the **** out of men, I have no idea why, as I am a really nice person, it's just that I have a very strong will. And a lot of compassion.

I stress that I was very pretty (I have liver problems now; too much aspartame) but the looks are coming back.

You have just never met me, so you didn't know any difference.
Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

I plan to be one of the 144,000 if I am found worthy, in the next dimension, your spirit's talents and not your body's, will be the requirement. Miracles will be normal; as Jesus did but more.
Having a focused mind and a spirit right with God will be necessary.

If you take it literally, then these 144,000 will need to be able to sing. Look up Revelation 14v3.
So if you meet all the other requirements that you are suggesting, but you sing like a bulwalrus, you won't make the cut?????

I think that the eunuch idea is saying that you need to be castrated from the spritual idolatries, ie the babylonian whore. Meaning that you didn't even get aroused, even from thinking of mucking about with the Babylonian mysteries. Because Jesus said 'if you thunk it you did it'. (my paraphrase)

That's my opinion.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


I believe that this scripture refers to the Essenes.


The first reference is by the Roman writer Pliny the Elder (died c. 79 CE) in his Natural History.[6] Pliny relates in a few lines that the Essenes do not marry, possess no money, and had existed for thousands of generations. Unlike Philo, who did not mention any particular geographical location of the Essenes other than the whole land of Israel, Pliny places them in Ein Gedi, next to the Dead Sea.



A little later Josephus gave a detailed account of the Essenes in The Jewish War (c. 75 CE), with a shorter description in Antiquities of the Jews (c. 94 CE) and The Life of Flavius Josephus (c. 97 CE). Claiming first hand knowledge, he lists the Essenoi as one of the three sects of Jewish philosophy[7] alongside the Pharisees and the Sadducees.

He relates the same information concerning piety, celibacy, the absence of personal property and of money, the belief in communality and commitment to a strict observance of Sabbath. He further adds that the Essenes ritually immersed in water every morning, ate together after prayer, devoted themselves to charity and benevolence, forbade the expression of anger, studied the books of the elders, preserved secrets, and were very mindful of the names of the angels kept in their sacred writings.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Essenes are never mentioned in the Bible by name, but they are alluded to and hinted at all through the New Testament scriptures. Many believe that John the Baptist was an Essene, or at least educated by the Essenes. Many also believe that Jesus was an Essene.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by AriesJedi
 




I think that the eunuch idea is saying that you need to be castrated from the spritual idolatries, ie the babylonian whore. Meaning that you didn't even get aroused, even from thinking of mucking about with the Babylonian mysteries.


I disagree.

Matthew 19, has Jesus speaking about relationships, marriage and divorce etc. Jesus didn't suddenly switch topics from that to "spiritual idolatries".

www.biblegateway.com...



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 



Beauty is of the devil


Reading your post one more time, I have to say I disagree with this bit
.
Beauty is created by God, but obsessive attachments to beauty is not of God. That is the source of all lusts, adultery and so on. Of course, its also God who grants beauty to whoever He wants to.

Im sure you agree with me that this materialistic world idolizes beautiful people. Which explains why celebrities, actors and singers make the news all the time.... a whole lot more than starving children in Africa or civilians being bombed in the middle east.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


I don't know about the Essenes but I do know that Jesus taught many times to NOT be attached to the material world.

One instance is...

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.


Jesus also said to obey him.
How many people calling themselves "christians" work to gather treasures on earth?
Treasures in the modern context could be anything from flashy cars to mansions to beautiful women.



edit on 23-10-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Everything that Jesus taught, the Essenes taught, first. The Essenes believed that a messiah was coming and many believe that they recognized Jesus as the great teacher they were waiting for. Some say that Mary and Joseph belonged to the sect of Essenes that married and had children called the Nazarenes. Some dispute this and say that the Essenes adopted Jesus.

At any rate, there is pretty good evidence that Jesus considered them brethren. I think that they are represented as the eunuchs.

www.thenazareneway.com...
www.essene.com...



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by kingkool
A priest must live a life of less in order to achieve closeness to God and then en part what is learned to his congregation.

Hey if you want to see a fun movie that touches on a lot of these themes and other Zen-like themes pick up a movie starring David Carradine called "Circle of Iron".


Interesting! If living a life of less brings you closer to God then why don't the rest of those who claim to love God do the same to get closer to God if they truly love God?

Don't we do the same crazy things to get closer to other things we love? In order for me to afford that 2012 Subaru Impreza WRX STI, I will quit fine dinings on weekends, skip afternoon meals, maybe even break up with my girlfriend


To those who are not rich as Bill Gates, we tend to sacrifice other less valuable things to get something we value higher. Do our lives prove we value God above all as a Christian? Is it just the duty of priests or to show which things we really value and love and God is at the bottom of the list.

P.S. Thanks for the movie, will look for it!



Originally posted by AriesJedi
You have just never met me, so you didn't know any difference.
Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

I plan to be one of the 144,000 if I am found worthy, in the next dimension, your spirit's talents and not your body's, will be the requirement. Miracles will be normal; as Jesus did but more.
Having a focused mind and a spirit right with God will be necessary.


No I don't. As I've said, there will be exceptions to the rule.... But honestly, they are so hard to find!! Not that I'm looking for one


I personally know a few exceptions.. But it's sad to think they are literally, one in a million. I know of one, my aunt, and now you! I tried to look for one couple of years ago. But recently decided to stop looking and remain single, don't care about perpetuating our bloodline, for this is not our home. Nothing in this world matters or has any value.

I can't even tell that to my Christian parents for that will give them great sorrow. It's sad what Christianity has turned into - a religion that values the things of this world like marriage and building a family, opposing the teachings of Jesus.
edit on 23-10-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)





 
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