Vulcan stealth????

I have heard a rumour that the Avro Vulcan had some form of primative stealth with a very low RCS. It was even known to dissapear from the radar from time to time. The shape seems very fortunate if it wasnt deliberate (apart from the tail that is).

Can anyone shed any light on this?

I posted on here a while ago in another discussion that RAF ground operators described the Vulcans return on the radar scree as being "like a barn door coming over the horizon" by which they meant it looked extremely massive compared to the returns of other aircraft.

Any radar getting a decent look down those very large - very open - intakes at the 4 big Olympus engines doing their thing would be screaming 'Hello!' to any half decent radar operator.

I would be prepared to believe that from certain angles the Vulcan was less huge on the screen but given that it was covered in access panels, doors and radio antenna with nice 90' angles maybe even that is asking waaaaaaaay too much.....and almost every one of the construction materials was hardly ideal either.

Mind you once they switched to operating right down on the deck with the taps open the WARPAC kit of the day would have had severe problems handling that strike force and no mistake. Man that must have been some ride!

Once they knew what happened the earlier days must have been pretty amusing for the crews too as they used that enormous wing and the powerful motors to reach heights that had the would-be interceptors flaming out far far below and getting nowhere near them.

Have you heard the story of the Vulcan and the 2 F15's at Red Flag?

It's on ATS somewhere.

Let's just say that to this day Americans that know the story have a very hard time coming to grips with what should not have happened.

The Vulcan was extremely agile.



[edit on 23-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

The Vulcan was extremely agile.

[edit on 23-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

You can say that again, a favourite air display trick was to do a barrel roll right off the end of the runway. This aircraft could fly!

That said, a lot of it was down to support aircraft as well. During the Falklands war, the Vulcan was used to bomb the runway at Port Stanley, having taken off from the Ascension Islands. The Vulcan was supported by 11 Victor tankers which refueled it and each other several times on the way there, the last tanker turning back after the point of no return.

Yup, that last tanker did not have enough fuel to reach the Ascension Islands, it was supposed to be met en route by another Victor tanker which would only be sent out on a successful mission call from the Vulcan on its way back. The Victor crews were under strict radio silence, and couldnt even break it to call for the refueling tanker, less it alert the Argentinians. If the Vulcan didnt make it, then the Victor crew was lost.

Thats what I call brave aircrew.

To quote:

The famous Black Buck missions were at the time the longest undertaken in the history of air warfare; the refuelling plan called for no less than 11 Victors to take off with the single Vulcan, with the Victors refuelling both the Vulcan and other Victors in order to get the Vulcan and a single final Victor to the last refuelling point. There the Victor would refuel the Vulcan for a final time before the attack. Victors would once again be waiting to refuel the Vulcan after the attack took place; five being needed for the return trip. On the first mission, the final pre-attack refuelling revealed the bravery of the Victor crews, when the Victor gave the Vulcan enough fuel to continue, but left itself short - and they would not break radio silence to request a tanker to meet them on the way home; without being refuelled itself, the Victor could not make it back to base. Thankfully after the Vulcan had broken radio silence as planned to announce a successful attack, they could get another Victor scrambled and waiting when they neared home

Also is the fact that in both the Victor and the Vulcan, only the pilots had ejection systems, the rear crew had to bailout through hatches. Amazing that anyone would want postings to these positions.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Have you heard the story of the Vulcan and the 2 F15's at Red Flag?

No

It's on ATS somewhere

[edit on 23-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Have search for it on ATS, google & altavista and not found it could you point to the path of enlightment

www.tvoc.co.uk...

more info including video
discoverychannel.co.uk...

[edit on 25-10-2004 by paperplane_uk]

I did read that the Vulcan could fly so high that the Argie Radar operators couldnt see em coming when they hit Port Stanley...

There are actually several independant Vulcan restoration projects underway, all in varying conditions. One has even gotten to the point where highspeed taxiing is practical. www.avrovulcan.com...

The Vulcan must be the most beautiful looking bringer of death and destruction ever created

The sight and sound of rumbling thunder as that graceful delta planform wheeled overhead while revealing its cavernous open bomb bay will stay with me forever, wonderful.

The Vulcan must be the most beautiful looking bringer of death and destruction ever created

yeah!! im right with you on that one!!

If i remember rightly it did have some radar "jamming " equipment that was pretty common for the era but no actual stealth additions in the sense of the words we use today,ive seen this Badass aircraft flying loads of times and its about as stealthy as a pitbull on acid!

[edit on 25-10-2004 by optimus fett]

if anything the volume of it's engines would give it away

I once witnessed 4 taking off in a scramble, and the earth was still shaking when they were miles away.

I once witnessed 4 taking off in a scramble, and the earth was still shaking when they were miles away.

i know this feeling,i once witnessed 3 come in to RAF Woodford in cheshire,the first 1 dumped fuel on the runway by accident and the other 2 coming in behind it aborted and went vertical above the end of the runway,i was over 1 mile away and the windows of our house were shaking-it gives me goosebumps just talking about this aircraft!

if you want to hear that mighty roar again... just download this short recording

www.users.zetnet.co.uk...

nothing quite like the sound of 4 rolls royce olympus engines with 20,000lbs thrust each

nothing quite like the sound of 4 rolls royce olympus engines with 20,000lbs thrust each

thats awesome mate,got it saved in favourites (sad,sad,sad) ill put that on full blast through my BOSE system when my misses gets in-shell love it (not)

with a good sound set up it makes the desk vibrate just like the real thing!

Originally posted by waynos
with a good sound set up it makes the desk vibrate just like the real thing!

lol
!!!!

Still think the UK need very lomg range strike! A remake of the Vulcan with modern computers and carbon fibre may JUST be possable and would be WAY COOL!

Originally posted by RAB
Still think the UK need very lomg range strike! A remake of the Vulcan with modern computers and carbon fibre may JUST be possable and would be WAY COOL!

Nah, make a bomber Concorde instead

Originally posted by Cjwinnit

Originally posted by RAB
Still think the UK need very lomg range strike! A remake of the Vulcan with modern computers and carbon fibre may JUST be possable and would be WAY COOL!

Nah, make a bomber Concorde instead

They did...it was called the B1.

Originally posted by Cjwinnit

Originally posted by RAB
Still think the UK need very lomg range strike! A remake of the Vulcan with modern computers and carbon fibre may JUST be possable and would be WAY COOL!

Nah, make a bomber Concorde instead

Uhm, why?! You do realise that all the concorde had going for it was speed and looks? It was crap at manoeuvering, which was a forte of teh Vulcan, and it just eats fuel at low altitudes, again something the Vulcan was designed to do. The Vulcan could carry a greater bomb and fuel load than the Concorde could carry passengers and cargo. They both had the same engines, and both had some of the same designers work on them.

I would *love* to see a Vulcan fly again in the near future, the CAA has already said it would be willing to grant an air worthyness certificate to two projects, providing the aircraft pass the tests (the CAA normally wont issue AWC to these sorts of aircraft, due to their complexity. There are three EE Lightnings in the UK that are flight worthy, and the CAA refuses to grant them certificates meaning they can only do high speed taxiing.)