Antidepressants, "Doom" and Conspiracy: Finally Waking Up, or Falling More Asleep Than Ever?

Hi ATS.

I posted not long ago about how I had been recently put on an antidepressant. I thought I'd start a new thread, however, focusing more on the way this chemical has impacted my thinking about "doom," conspiracy, politics, and the world at large. I think this is an important topic and since I am noticing a big and rapid difference in my thinking about these matters since going on this medicine, I hope it will be of wider interest. I also plan to update this thread in the future as my treatment unfolds, to see if there are further changes in my mindset regarding these topics and to provide a real-time record.


The Drug
The drug I have been put on is called Noritryptyline, a second-generation tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) prescribed for major depression.





The drug works by inhibiting the reuptake of norepinephrine (noradrenaline) and serotonin in neural synapses.




My Case
I was diagnosed with major depression earlier in my life when I was teenager, and received treatment with a stronger class of drugs, as well as spending some time as an in-patient in a mental hospital. Now I am my mid-20s and I have seen a recurrence of some of the symptoms, although not as severe as last time. Symptoms this time include: excessive sleeping (up to 12 hours a day), suicidal thoughts, deep sadness, lack of energy during the day, difficulty concentrating on anything, pessimism, fear of the future, crying jags, and short temper. After some consultation with a psychiatrist, I decided to go on this drug maybe about a month ago. As it takes some time to kick in, I would say I am just now beginning to feel the full effects.



Effects that I feel at the moment include persistent dryness of mouth, vivid dreams, feeling more focused during waking hours and sleepier at night, and what I call “emotional smoothing.” The downs seem less down and the ups seem less up. There is no “buzz” or chemical-y feeling, but I have noticed I am already not getting as worked up and trapped in mental downward spirals or deep pessimism. While the content of my thoughts has not changed and is still somewhat negative, the emotional coloration is far less intense. It’s like shifting from a rich, deeply hued oil painting to at thinner, washed-out watercolor of the same landscape. The subject-matter is the same, but the feeling is different.


Conspiracy, “Doom,” and Worldview 
The major focus of this thread is the way this drug impacts my worldview and feelings about conspiracy theories, impending doom, and the way the world works. Now, I generally consider myself, like most of you here, “awake” to the big problems and issues that the so-called “sheeple” ignore. I have a deeply pessimistic worldview, and tend to pour obsessively over bad news, gloomy predictions about the future, articles about the bad economy, the decay of society, evil politicians, etc. I’m quite aware that there is “something deeper” going on than the mainstream view of reality, vis-à-vis politics, economics, and society.



So has a month on antidepressants changed this? I would say yes, in a subtle but very important way. I still believe all the things I noted above…its just that it suddenly seems less important to me. It’s harder for me to feel deep feelings of woe and fear, as well the need for immediate action. It seems like I can note these facts without feeling as much personal dread or involvement. There is less personal investment in these issues. I guess I feel more detached. I can still worry, but there is less emotive coloration to it all. It’s almost like I’m looking at the world from inside a protective bubble of some kind.



My perception of the future has changed subtly as well. The problems, fears, and sense of impending doom seem more like possibilities than near certainties, as before. Suddenly the future seems less defined, more open-edged, a wider and more comfortable place. I can imagine good things or neutral things taking place, instead of only bad things. In this sense, I think the antidepressant has helped me, because I think this worldview is wider and closer to the actual truth of the way the future is. An obsessive focus on doom is a very narrow view of the future that does not allow for the complexity and unpredictability of life.


[Size=4]Awake or Asleep?
I am not a “zombie” and I am still capable of all the complexity of thought that I was capable of before. In some ways, by removing me from a “rut” in which I was excessively focused on doom, I feel this drug has the potential to truly “wake me up” by giving me a more balanced view of things. On the other hand, my old pessimism and instinctive fear of becoming a “sheeple” is still there, and I wonder if I’m just falling more asleep than ever. By trying to be as honest as possible with myself and with you, I hope to resolve this issue to some extent.

Its an important issue to come to terms with, because I’m certainly not the only one on this drug or others like it.




All comments, etc. are welcome.

You will find many people here who will tell you antidepressants are evil and will turn you into a zombie, etc. I have no experience with this class of medicine and I am not a doctor, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt, but I belive they can be helpful for people who are truly hurting. At the same time, I'm quite certain they are overprescribed and not everyone on them needs to be on them.

I think the trick is to not get into a long-term dependency on them unless you really need to. I have known people who took them for half a year or whatever and benefitted greatly. I also read stories of people who have been on drugs like this for years and years, and part of me can't help but feel this is unnatural, at least for most people.

I think that by introspecting on what these pills do to your sense of "doom," you can provide a valuable resource and I hope you'll keep it up.

reply to post by KarensHoliday


Okay I read whole thread,and thanks for sharing your story on this.

I do believe that a lot of people suffer from real depression. And you seem to be one of those,and glad you are starting to feel better.

I also think that some people just go through depression spells,and don't need medicine. I was one of those.

At 16 I tried to commit suicide, and was deemed to be super depressed, they put me on so many different anti-depressants it was wild,and it made it worse. They kept increasing my dosage and then they diagnosed me bi-polar. Which was actually wrong.

I was going through so much with my parents being alcoholics and my mom mentally abusing me constantly!

Ok so I was on Prozac,lamictal,time released Xanax and kolonopin. And in 2008 I fell two stories off a fire escape.I believe the combination of all these meds and I had a drink which I know you're not supposed to but I did.so I think that's the reason I fell. Also it was a huge wake up call. Right above my left temple split open,and I was bleeding in 5 places in my brain, also my shoulder was injured. But I LIVED.

While in hospital I was able to come off of all meds. And when I got out I felt great,and haven't been on antidepressants since. I still have anxiety and take meds for that.

I just want to give you a thumbs up on being on an antidepressant that is helping you. And good luck to you in your life. Some people actually need antidepressants and they do help people.

I have a good friend on anti-depressants. And for sure, things don't bother her any more. Nothing. Her teenager can walk out the door at 11:00PM at night and that doesn't matter. Doesn't know where she's going or ask. And yet is not depressed. Seems all cheerful and everything.

They make nearly everything OK and not matter. And when things no longer bother you, they don't depress you.

Anti-depressants are a chemical lobotomy.

Does a gloomy outlook cause depression or does depression cause a gloomy outlook? Seems like whether or not antidepressants are useful depends on how you answer this.

If a gloomy outlook is clear perception of a world gone mad, than antidepressants are not a cure...they are high-tech chemical denial.

If a gloomy outlook is a distorted perception caused by a disease, on the other hand, antidepressants may be a valid cure.

Big pharma has thrown a lot of money at the medical establishment, academia, and the media to promote the latter view. This fact in and of itself makes me more inclined toward the former...just sayin.

reply to post by KarensHoliday


I have no room to judge or say if medication is right for your depression...
My only issue is I feel it is sort of an out. When you have to stop or come off of them you still wouldn't have ever learned how to cope with reality or the problem the right way, you just took a pill to temporarily get over the pain. When you wake up one day and don't have pills, you still have problems you put off fixing. Actually prolonging the problem. That's just my opinion though.

Some people have the misconception that those on anti-depressants are sheep because their medication use benefits the pharmaceutical industry and they are therefore part of the system when they choose to take their medication. This is false. I can confirm from personal experience that my interest in alternative topics including conspiracy theories increased when I began taking them. I became more determined to seek truth and employ critical thinking skills. The medication didn't force me to do these things; it allowed me to reach a more stable and healthy mindset which then better enabled me to explore alternative topics.

To the author of this thread: I suggest giving the medication a chance to work. There will be ups and downs when taking anti-depressants and, once given the chance to work, the individual must decide whether the overall trade-off is positive or negative. Good luck on your journey and I hope you can achieve peace and happiness soon in your life.

Thank you for writing this, i think you are spot i have been on anti psychotics for almost 15 years now and i only started taking the anti depressants in the last 4 years and i can say for some reason i believe my problem to be on the verge of schitzoprenia and depression but with the medications i am much more alert and i can read books something i couldnt do before i am remembering things i feel allot better in the past i thought anti depressants was a bad medication but for me now it is the only things that has worked for me i am more stimulated and seeing the way you feel has made me think that from what you say you feel my condition is helped in a way that i am not suffering no more because when there is depression you cannot get up and go and feel great, The problem is i dont feel great as often as other but if i put my head down and forget it i feel great more of the time more often thanks once again.

Originally posted by Katharos62191
reply to post by KarensHoliday

 

I have no room to judge or say if medication is right for your depression...
My only issue is I feel it is sort of an out. When you have to stop or come off of them you still wouldn't have ever learned how to cope with reality or the problem the right way, you just took a pill to temporarily get over the pain. When you wake up one day and don't have pills, you still have problems you put off fixing. Actually prolonging the problem. That's just my opinion though.

It seems to me that I have no real "problems" in an objective sense that need to be wrestled with. And yet I have been unable to function and have been tormented by pain, pessimism, and negativity. This makes me feel that the problem is chemical/medical rather than related to something outside myself that needs to be "fixed."

Originally posted by KarensHoliday

Originally posted by Katharos62191
reply to post by KarensHoliday

 

I have no room to judge or say if medication is right for your depression...
My only issue is I feel it is sort of an out. When you have to stop or come off of them you still wouldn't have ever learned how to cope with reality or the problem the right way, you just took a pill to temporarily get over the pain. When you wake up one day and don't have pills, you still have problems you put off fixing. Actually prolonging the problem. That's just my opinion though.

It seems to me that I have no real "problems" in an objective sense that need to be wrestled with. And yet I have been unable to function and have been tormented by pain, pessimism, and negativity. This makes me feel that the problem is chemical/medical rather than related to something outside myself that needs to be "fixed."

I really do hope you get to feeling better no matter how, I absolutely hate to hear someone is being tormented by pain and negativity. You deserve to be happy, no matter how you choose to be, medicated or not. I only offer my opinion because I have been in your position, I was medicated for depression and a few other things for years. Literally years. I used to be convinced if i didnt have meds, I'd fall apart! But It only brought more physical and mental issues and when I realized I needed to fix myself on my own and stop relying on my meds, I had to tackle everything they also brought about instead of just the feelings I had started them with. It took a big life change, mental wise, health wise and just an all around different lifestyle. And Karen believe me when I say I still fight those feelings today, I am just stronger doing it myself. I believe we all have the strength to battle pain ourselves. But however it may take to get the process started, meds, no meds, I encourage the road to healing. I do hope you find peace and leave the pain and negativity behind, no matter how. Just know you are strong enough, and have it in you to fight it yourself one day. Good luck!

reply to post by KarensHoliday

The major focus of this thread is the way this drug impacts my worldview and feelings about conspiracy theories, impending doom, and the way the world works. Now, I generally consider myself, like most of you here, “awake” to the big problems and issues that the so-called “sheeple” ignore. I have a deeply pessimistic worldview, and tend to pour obsessively over bad news, gloomy predictions about the future, articles about the bad economy, the decay of society, evil politicians, etc. I’m quite aware that there is “something deeper” going on than the mainstream view of reality, vis-à-vis politics, economics, and society.
So has a month on antidepressants changed this? I would say yes, in a subtle but very important way. I still believe all the things I noted above…its just that it suddenly seems less important to me. It’s harder for me to feel deep feelings of woe and fear, as well the need for immediate action. It seems like I can note these facts without feeling as much personal dread or involvement. There is less personal investment in these issues. I guess I feel more detached. I can still worry, but there is less emotive coloration to it all. It’s almost like I’m looking at the world from inside a protective bubble of some kind.
My perception of the future has changed subtly as well. The problems, fears, and sense of impending doom seem more like possibilities than near certainties, as before. Suddenly the future seems less defined, more open-edged, a wider and more comfortable place. I can imagine good things or neutral things taking place, instead of only bad things. In this sense, I think the antidepressant has helped me, because I think this worldview is wider and closer to the actual truth of the way the future is. An obsessive focus on doom is a very narrow view of the future that does not allow for the complexity and unpredictability of life.

P.S. Reading this makes me feel you are becoming more asleep, than awake. But I see how you could also look at it as a good thing..Conspiracy theory isn't always healthy, but I think it is healthier to be concerned about these issues rather than just not care because that is what scares me. Like the sheep who know something's not right, but just don't care! Don't let that happen to you! You had an interest in that stuff prior hand for a reason! Maybe you can find a happy medium, don't fall completely asleep! Like I said before, Good Luck!

My husband used to be on antidepressants for two years. He's been off them for about a year now. Before that, he had bouts of depression, then had meds, but stopped taking them after six months, which didn't do much for him.

He has never been interested in conspiracies, although he is awake in a sense that he realises things are changing and we can no longer pretend everything's fine. Whether he was on or off meds didn't make a difference to his interests in conspiracies, or made him more or less prone to seek deeper meaning for certain things he felt was "out of our control".

He did try certain natural remedies, like St John's wort for "heavy" periods, or when he came off the meds after two years. Probably to make it easier for me, as I was struggling with his mood swings. They helped a lot. I think antidepressants, like everything, has a time and a place. And I think you need to really get to know yourself, so you'll know when you're the real YOU. And whether you find that out on, or off meds, doesn't matter. Just so long as you hold on to what you find.

One key issue with folks who are put on anti anything is they are in conflict with their soul matrix, a kind of "soul wants this and you want that" sort of thing. The conflict is the issue. The meds seek to remedy that by cutting you off from your soul matrix, leaving you isolated from yourself = no conflict. The main ingredient in all of these, and in the municipal water too, is fluoride and its various forms, which calcify the pineal gland, the main connection to the soul, and render the connection dead. The "zombie" state people refer to is a separation state, and while many claim this fixes everything, it does not. They become addicted to the separation, and, should they decide to reconnect by dropping the meds, they often find themselves in a kind of hell.

Further, I have never seen an actual problem solved by the meds. Case in point, some MD's wanted to put a guy a knew on meds and electro shock therapy, but they never, ever, asked what might be the actual problem that was causing the distress, never. Their answer was meds, expensive meds. The actual problem was financial, and the KEY, the answer, the solution to the problem was a qualified bankruptcy attorney and a simple constitutionally protected filing. That was the problem.

In days of yore, going way way back, the soul-self was the domain of each person. Then, the church took over the soul-self domain. Then, the scientists of big pharma took over the domain of soul-self. These folks have fun, enjoyable, sun-surf-wine retreats where they name new mental ailments, which, remarkably, solve all the mental-soul-self conflicts that anyone can have. So having financial troubles, a financial solution is foolish, you have "mental money depression" and meds are the answer. Problems no longer have solutions, they have meds.

If you are feeling better on them that is great OP. It sounds like you have a very good awareness about the situation in which you have found yourself.

Even though my view may differ slightly about "mankind's" recent fascination for labeling more and more things a "mental illness" who are we to judge anyone for doing what they feel is best for their body? We all have different body chemistry and react to things in a different way.

I strongly disagree with medicating children at the age we are now. However, an adult makes their own choices. I do suggest not accepting some label they decide to throw on you. We could all be diagnosed with something under the current psychiatry model.

Makes you think how our ancestors did it you know? Part of me also wonders if we passed out sugar pills how many people would start feeling better if we called them an "anti depressant" The placebo affect when our mind believes something will "make us better" is often over looked today. I wonder why?

Give a kid an aspirin and tell them it will make their headache go away and watch what happens!

OK my take on the likes of "prozac" and the rest of the SSRI family. this is from my own personal use
while they may take up to a month or longer to start to work the drugs do seem to lift you out of the
depressive state you may be in. but after many month's use i found i came up against "the wall"

This is a point where the drug stops working and you fall back into depression so its either up the dose
or as i did see the light and just stop taking what i now call evil evil drugs of this type.

after a month with no withdrawal from a six month prescription i felt good and my mood had lifted without
the need for these drugs.
I think the Dr's are far to quick to dish these SSRI type drugs out. and i believe the reason is proffit.
Take a pack of 28 prozac that is £12.00 now take a pack of 28 valium £1.12 and while valium is rarely
given out these days (not for long periods of time at least) i do think there is a use for the drug in place
of the SSRI type. yes valium is addictive but the prozac is the same! you have to stay on the drug and
be weaned off at a slow rate so i see no sense but a mass marketing scheme of BIG PHARMA.


also look at the world around us! as we are more informed than the sheeple is there any wonder folk
feel depressed and suicidal? the whole world is tearing apart at the seems it is all doom and gloom.
often it does not hurt to take time out from the conspiracy site's as they do make people over think
and then worry.and there is no one who really wants to hear our view and concerns about the goings on!

the sheeple just stick there fingers in there ears and go la la la la la la not listening to you!
sheeple cannot handle the truth.but then we can only take so much of it at once.


MY advice stay away from selective serotonin re-uptake initiators (SSRI) and maybe try valerian root
this is what valium is made with but unlike it there is NO habit forming and it is taken from the plant so
it is mother nature.
BUT DO NOT TAKE THIS ADVICE FROM ME ALONE, I AM NOT A Dr.

reply to post by MyParadoxicalSelf




Give a kid an "aspirin" (sugar pill) and tell them it will make their headache go away and watch what happens!

First off I hope the OP is doing well.
Also excellent thread on an important topic,with good research.I have learned some things I did not know.

I am in no way a doctor,so please don't take my post as medical advice.
But I'd like to share my experience with anti-depressants,as a reference point for those interested in the subject.
I'll keep it short.

When I was fifteen I was diagnosed with PTSD after a family tragedy.After only a few months I was put on an anti-depressant and also a prescription sleep aid.I was depressed and greiving,therefor the anti-depressant.I was also having severe night terrors,hence the sleeping medication.Shortly after this treatment started I also began to self medicate with alcohol and "gateway" drugs.I wasn't on the pills for more than a few months and my whole life went in a serious downward spiral.Wild and violent mood swings,from not caring and doing nothing for days, to becoming at times violent,very angry,and hyper-active for days,states of euphoria and states of suicidal depression.Severe anxiety and even panic attacks.These symptoms remained throughout my time on the meds, but did vary in intensity at times.

I was on anti-depressants for over 3 years I think and the doctors tried different doses,combinations,and medications.I also seen mental doctors as part of my treatment psychiartrist or whatever.Then one day I told myself that this was not working,and quit taking the medications.Within a few months I became a new man,not perfect,not always happy,still having issues,but 100 times better.Gone were the wild mood swings and the irrational thinking,my anxiety was reduced immensely,and I was overall much happier.

Now I rarely take medication for anything,even a headache or cold,because of my bad experience.
I do not blame the medications for my terrible behavior and decisions,I take responsibility.And still feel awful about the way I was back then.However I think the medications certainly played a role in my ability to make good rational decisions,and feel that if I wasn't on them I would've made better choices.And I could have better addressed my issues sober rather than numbing and compounding my issues while on the meds.

Also my memory of that time is very hazy and has been for years.

As I said I'm not a doctor and not trying to provide advice.
Seeking information and doing research is the best thing you can do,which you are obviously doing.
Anyway good luck to the OP,and best of wishes.

Strangely enough how things changed for your worldview, looking to the future as possibilities rather than certainties, looking at the world in a bubble, all mirror exactly how I view things now, over say, the last year and a half.

There was a time I thought the world was going to hell in a hand basket. Corruption in banking, politics, education, even going to work I felt like a hamster on a wheel going through the motions of "life" and not enjoying much. Always thinking everyone else was just apathetic about the world and the problems we go through.

I don't know what changed, but I feel that you just take whatever happens and go with it. Anything is possible. Even some of the far out stuff right here on ATS. It was a gradual sort of thing. Some people may need a little help getting there. I personally don't believe every drug is used to control or dumb down the population. People shouldn't fear the unknown. The unknown has just as much good as it does bad. Life would be boring, and personally, boring if you didn't have to go through certain things to come out of it more knowledgeable and richer for having the experience.

The universe is a big place. We cannot even begin to comprehend a fraction of it. Every day is the chance for something new. I'm experiencing "reality" my own way and nobody can say they experience or feel the same of every event in the exact same way.

Life is good

What you are experiencing, OP, is a change in the chemical composition of your brain. Which is how antidepressants work. However, human emotion is also controlled by those chemicals produced by your brain. Happiness. Sadness. Fear. Anger. All chemical induced.

If you take a pill that blocks out the production of certain chemicals, you won't have a full range of emotion. Which, in the case of severe depression, is a good thing.

There is an innate feeling of "fear" for modern man, as he has distanced himself from his native up-bringings, he is at a loss to explain the innate instinct of fear if he has not been able to capture and eat food for himself - this is the feeling of "doom" as the "innocence" has not been lost, the instinctual barrier of "death" has not been broken.

Yet, he eats meat....

The feeling of "doom" is common in depression - as internally you have found a way to inhabit the realm of being that exists underneath the "instinctual" self, without having acclimatised or become accustomed to the harsh realities of life.

If it makes you feel any better, the feeling is just a sense of "unknown" that is linked to the instinct to survive, thus the intense feeling of fear and "doom" occurs.

ATS: The current biological "control" grid exists "below" the natural bio-energetic "death" barrier, and those that "cross" to it experience a kind of "high" because they feel as if they have already died yet are still alive - lo-and-behold thier living "soul" is usually "dead" inside and they are just walking "brains" in thier "shells"....

If I were you - I would seek to understand what you feel - it is telling you that you are still "alive" on the inside...