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Third and Final Presidential Debate Thread.

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posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Sparky63
It's a shame that some of you feel compelled to denigrate your fellow Americans and even ATS members by resorting to petty name calling and personal attacks. It's amazing that both candidates talk about wanting to unite people and bring about peace and yet their supporters display some of the nastiest qualities imaginable. This is why so many have lost all faith in our ability as a nation to ever achieve any real and lasting peace. We are tearing ourselves apart from within.
All our enemies have to do is to sit back and watch us destroy ourselves.
A few here have attempted to have a civil discussion but far too many are so steeped in party loyalty that they perceive their fellow Americans who support the other side as their enemies.
What a sad state of affairs.




My nastiness is inspired by four years of lying and grandstanding on
Behalf of the anti Obama crowd. Only an asshole would sit around and be
Insulted for 40 + months of abuse. It is always easy to ignore the catalyst,
But I am done with liars and distorted narratives, I'd rather be punched
In the teeth. If someone wants to lie or champion ignorance they can kiss my
Butt and expect to be chastised.
edit on 23-10-2012 by campanionator because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by campanionator

Originally posted by Sparky63
It's a shame that some of you feel compelled to denigrate your fellow Americans and even ATS members by resorting to petty name calling and personal attacks. It's amazing that both candidates talk about wanting to unite people and bring about peace and yet their supporters display some of the nastiest qualities imaginable. This is why so many have lost all faith in our ability as a nation to ever achieve any real and lasting peace. We are tearing ourselves apart from within.
All our enemies have to do is to sit back and watch us destroy ourselves.
A few here have attempted to have a civil discussion but far too many are so steeped in party loyalty that they perceive their fellow Americans who support the other side as their enemies.
What a sad state of affairs.




My nastiness is inspired by four years of lying and grandstanding on
Behalf of the anti Obama crowd. Only an asshole would sit around and be
Insulted for 40 + months of abuse. It is always easy to ignore the catalyst,
But I am done with liars and distorted narratives, I'd rather be punched
In the teeth. If someone wants to lie or champion ignorance they can kiss my
Butt and expect to be chastised.
edit on 23-10-2012 by campanionator because: (no reason given)



It seems everyone has excuses for their own behavior but no tolerance for anyone else. Thanks for illustrating my point so well.
It is just too bad that we can't discuss these important issues without making enemies of our fellow countrymen.
edit on 10/23/2012 by Sparky63 because: (no reason given)
edit on 10/23/2012 by Sparky63 because: spelling



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Sparky63

Originally posted by campanionator

Originally posted by Sparky63
It's a shame that some of you feel compelled to denigrate your fellow Americans and even ATS members by resorting to petty name calling and personal attacks. It's amazing that both candidates talk about wanting to unite people and bring about peace and yet their supporters display some of the nastiest qualities imaginable. This is why so many have lost all faith in our ability as a nation to ever achieve any real and lasting peace. We are tearing ourselves apart from within.
All our enemies have to do is to sit back and watch us destroy ourselves.
A few here have attempted to have a civil discussion but far too many are so steeped in party loyalty that they perceive their fellow Americans who support the other side as their enemies.
What a sad state of affairs.




My nastiness is inspired by four years of lying and grandstanding on
Behalf of the anti Obama crowd. Only an asshole would sit around and be
Insulted for 40 + months of abuse. It is always easy to ignore the catalyst,
But I am done with liars and distorted narratives, I'd rather be punched
In the teeth. If someone wants to lie or champion ignorance they can kiss my
Butt and expect to be chastised.
edit on 23-10-2012 by campanionator because: (no reason given)



It seems everyone has excuses for their own behavior but no tolerance for anyone else. Thanks for illustrating my point so well.
It is just too bad that we can't discuss these important issues without making enemies of our fellow countrymen.
edit on 10/23/2012 by Sparky63 because: (no reason given)
edit on 10/23/2012 by Sparky63 because: spelling


Sure I have tolerance, but that depends upon the situation and what people are castigating. If you differ on me about the size of government I can tolerate it 'til the cows come home. But if you are telling me that economy is worse than it was four years ago when we were losing 750,000 a month, I am not going to tolerate such a wild distortion.

Sorry if I cannot tolerate liars and scalawags, but I am a man with a threshold.



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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Ok since it seems some don't know what I was talking about here,

Kids elect Obama in Nickelodeon voting
By Lisa de Moraes

Children have elected President Barack Obama to a second term, in Nickelodeon’s 2012 Kids Pick the President voting.
www.washingtonpost.com...



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Ok since it seems some don't know what I was talking about here,

Kids elect Obama in Nickelodeon voting
By Lisa de Moraes

Children have elected President Barack Obama to a second term, in Nickelodeon’s 2012 Kids Pick the President voting.
www.washingtonpost.com...


Having kids, I understood exactly what you were talking about. I don't understand why people made such a big deal about your post. Bizarre!



posted on Oct, 24 2012 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by Sparky63

With regard to our ships here are some facts:


The US Navy has 53 submarines. The Chinese Navy has 63.
The US Navy has 62 destroyers. The Chinese Navy has 25.
The US Navy has 24 frigates. The Chinese Navy has 47.
The US Navy has 13 aircraft carriers. The Chinese Navy has 1.
The US Navy has has a total of 285 active vessels. The Chinese Navy has a total of 515 combat vessels and 138 major combat vessels, though this includes some ships and forces that would be classified as part of the Coast Guard in the US.
And the Chinese Navy is being expanded with all that money that Obama is borrowing to pay off his campaign donors.


Now add to that another 30 Iranian submarines, 2 destroyers and 6 frigates, and the US Navy’s resources becomes strained if it has to deal with two conflicts at the same time, while maintaining anti-piracy operations as well.

frontpagemag.com...
edit on 10/23/2012 by Sparky63 because: added source
edit on 10/23/2012 by Sparky63 because: added totals of submarines by US and China.


and the only ones that are of any consequence is

The US Navy has 53 submarines. The Chinese Navy has 63, 30 Iranian submarines.

The US Navy has 13 aircraft carriers. The Chinese Navy has 1.

These are the only figures in any naval scenario that actually matter. Every other ship on your list is of no consequence and little more than target practice. Fleet totals mean absolutely nothing except to those easily impressed by big numbers. Just like Iraq with the world's 4th largest army was of absolutely no consequence. It is not how many of what you have but how much of what you have can do. It should also be noted that Chinese Carrier is not even operational and was purchased decades old from Russia.



posted on Oct, 24 2012 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Sparky63

Originally posted by SloAnPainful
reply to post by Sparky63
 


I personally believe the war will be a big cyber war. Our enemies will know that by hacking our network they can shut down, or use our drones against us. Plus the countess other things they could do. Everything is controlled by computers.

-SAP-


You are probably right. We are constantly hearing now about the incredible damage an EMP burst will cause. It will wipe out computers and servers, basically bringing commerce to a standstill.


So according to you the Romney's 1916 remark is even more out of date than it seemed from the start? You seem to be more forward looking, thoughtful and open to technological innovation than this poor excuse of a candidate. And yes, the Age of Sail has passed.



posted on Oct, 24 2012 @ 04:59 AM
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Originally posted by Sparky63

Originally posted by macaronicaesar

Romney never mentioned a thing about two wars. You've invented this argument for your own justification. The U.S. has an overkill of something like 50-100, meaning they have enough military power to wipe out the entire world 100 times over. You're deluded if you think that cuts are going to somehow negatively impact America's national security. The problem isn't not enough Navy ships, the problem is their broke. Military cuts are long, long over due, it's simply unsustainable, the continued spending and ballooning of the National debt is America's number one national security threat, nothing else.

Wake up.
edit on 23-10-2012 by macaronicaesar because: (no reason given)


You are mistaken my friend. Romney clearly mentioned it. Please refresh your memory by going here and jumping to 41:06


With regard to our ships here are some facts:


The US Navy has 53 submarines. The Chinese Navy has 63.
The US Navy has 62 destroyers. The Chinese Navy has 25.
The US Navy has 24 frigates. The Chinese Navy has 47.
The US Navy has 13 aircraft carriers. The Chinese Navy has 1.
The US Navy has has a total of 285 active vessels. The Chinese Navy has a total of 515 combat vessels and 138 major combat vessels, though this includes some ships and forces that would be classified as part of the Coast Guard in the US.
And the Chinese Navy is being expanded with all that money that Obama is borrowing to pay off his campaign donors.


Now add to that another 30 Iranian submarines, 2 destroyers and 6 frigates, and the US Navy’s resources becomes strained if it has to deal with two conflicts at the same time, while maintaining anti-piracy operations as well.

frontpagemag.com...
edit on 10/23/2012 by Sparky63 because: added source
edit on 10/23/2012 by Sparky63 because: added totals of submarines by US and China.


Even after posting these numbers of zero importance you failed to acknowledge that US military has enough power to wipe china off the map 100000 times over. Military cuts are not a nicety they are an absolute must. It is unsustainable, Romney is pandering to a group that has raked the country over the coals for years. Enough is enough.



posted on Oct, 24 2012 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by macaronicaesar

Romney never mentioned a thing about two wars. You've invented this argument for your own justification.


Here's what Romney said (from the debate transcript):


I want to make sure that we have the ships that are required by our Navy. Our Air Force is older and smaller than at any time since it was founded in 1947.

We've changed for the first time since FDR — since FDR we had the — we've always had the strategy of saying we could fight in two conflicts at once. Now we're changing to one conflict.


www.politico.com...



posted on Oct, 24 2012 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
Here's what Romney said (from the debate transcript):


I want to make sure that we have the ships that are required by our Navy. Our Air Force is older and smaller than at any time since it was founded in 1947.


I see. So this is the second "bayonet moment" for Romney. He's comparing the ultra-sophisticated and ultra-expensive machines of today with a large park of airframes coming fresh out of the WWII era.

Look, it was the largest conflict in the past century, and get this, the number of trainers in the USAF was larger than the total number of aircraft in USAF today. If Romney doesn't know how the military works, he needs to read up on that -- but Obama has already told him that.

And Mitt wants to be Commander in Chief? Sheesh. I hear Taco Bell is hiring.
edit on 24-10-2012 by buddhasystem because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2012 @ 06:31 AM
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The major problem in American politics since the administration of George W. Bush is the introduction of an entirely fabricated world historical narrative line, into which, Americans have been told, the country has been thrust. This fabricated story is the story of America accosted and injured by outside forces, terrorist groups from the Islamic world who hate American values.

The visual illustrating this story would be something like a 250 pound football linebacker being pushed into the street by a 95 pound Arab and dragged around by his ear until very reluctantly the linebacker is forced to murder everyone on the block.

This obviously rediculous and fraudulent story line, of an accosted and injured America, forced to defend itself, disguises the real story line, which is the need for corporate entities that cannot profit by activities within the borders of the United States, to provoke a demand for their services overseas, by fabricating an attack on America from outside the country.

Corporations in the Military Industrial Complex have had the green light from Congress and largely from the American people to expand their activities in the Middle East and at home where security hardware, drones, etc., are being employed for the first time in American history.

This is like the mold on your cottage cheese turning back on itself and getting thicker. This process, the turning back, the investment of the American homeland itself, with paraphernalia and modalities of a militarily occupied state will lead to the removal of all individual rights in the country.

Left unchecked, this modality will produce a totalitarian military dictatorship in North America, in the most powerful country in the world. This country has already had its "Reichstag Fire". That fact alone and the human casualties involved should tell you what you are dealing with.

The American people simply must regain control of their own political processes.

When the Military Industrial Complex has, like the mold, eaten all the cottage cheese in the fridge, absorbed all the resources of the republic that it can absorb and still stay alive, it will break out into the world. It has already spilled out into the world and stumbled and recoiled upon itself, upon the American people themselves.

However, left unchecked, this mechanistic compulsion to growth and profitability, will eventually provoke WW3.

America's foreign policy postures and actions since 9/11 have been frenzied and irrational from every standpoint but that of physical addiction. American actions, seen as the actions of a desperate drug addict, make sense.

One has a moment of illumination. One knows that a segment of the fabric of American life has a desperate craving that could only be satisfied in this way. Otherwise American actions since 9/11 make no sense at any point.

This is how powerful and dangerous the Military Industrial Complex is. This is what they are capable of perpetrating to get what they need.

They are like a disease or virus or fungus or mold that will continue to grow until it kills its host and itself.

Neither Presidential candidate has a realistic approach to this problem. Romney wants to drive the world over a cliff at a hundred miles an hour and Obama wants to drive it over a cliff at sixty miles an hour, but sixty miles an hour at least gives people more time to try to change the direction of the vehicle.
edit on 24-10-2012 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by promenion
Many Europeans families emigrated to USA and are successful here. There is a reason they came to USA and left their countries when they could, it was Socialism/Communism.


I know a whole bunch of people like this and this is simply false. Never mind that there hasn't been any Communism in Europe for more than two decades. Just ridiculous, really.



Yeah? well than why did they come to USA and never went back to their former countries? That's right, because Capitalism triumphs over those systems.

I'll give you an example, my family. In 20 years in his former "Eastern bloc" country, he never had enough money for a house or a car. And, he had a very good job too. Came to USA in the 90's, started at minimum wage back than, what was it 6$? Knew zero English, to this day he understands little, but more than at beginning. Anyway, now he makes much more, has couple very nice expensive cars, and a very nice house. Cars are all paid off, house almost too.

He would never have achieved that in his former country. If you think USA is bad right now, its far worse where his from.



posted on Oct, 24 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by ipsedixit
 


It didn't start with George W. Bush. It goes all the way back through American history. Whether it's Roosevelt and the Rough Riders, Woodrow Wilson and WWI, Truman and Korea, Johnson and Vietnam, Reagan and Iran/Grenada/South America, Bush I with Iraq or Bush II with Iraq and Afghanistan........they all have lied to achieve whatever corporate objective was set up for them by the powers that be. Pretty gross.



posted on Oct, 24 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX


I wonder if horses and bayonette's will trend.


Perhaps the Chinese know more about the subject of BAYONETTE warfare than does BHO

edit on 24-10-2012 by Vitruvian because: TXT



posted on Oct, 24 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by Vitruvian

Originally posted by SaturnFX


I wonder if horses and bayonette's will trend.


Perhaps the Chinese know more about the subject of BAYONETTE warfare than does BHO

edit on 24-10-2012 by Vitruvian because: TXT


Whats the old addage, don't bring a knife to a gun fight.



posted on Oct, 24 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by KeliOnyx
 


You got money to build some new ships?






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