Third and Final Presidential Debate Thread.

Originally posted by Vitruvian

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by Vitruvian

Originally posted by alternateuniverse
Yahoo Poll Up And Running Again

Who won the final presidential debate? President Obama 49% Former Gov. Romney 51% Thank you for voting. ..288,012 votes

www.yahoo.com...

YAHOO

FOR THE "PEOPLE POLL" at Yahoo.com

Your Yahoo is premature. Go check the link you may want to edit your post. Obama now leads Romney 53% to 38%

I already told you - that statistic is NOT referring to the third debate.............ROMNEY WON THE 3RD DEBATE - HANDS DOWN

Not according to the poll. And this thread is about Monday night's debate. Start another thread if you want to talk about last Friday.

Originally posted by Vitruvian

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by Vitruvian

Originally posted by alternateuniverse
Yahoo Poll Up And Running Again

Who won the final presidential debate? President Obama 49% Former Gov. Romney 51% Thank you for voting. ..288,012 votes

www.yahoo.com...

YAHOO

FOR THE "PEOPLE POLL" at Yahoo.com

Your Yahoo is premature. Go check the link you may want to edit your post. Obama now leads Romney 53% to 38%

I already told you - that statistic is NOT referring to the third debate.............ROMNEY WON THE 3RD DEBATE - HANDS DOWN

bwahahahaa...

"@glennbeck: I am glad to know that mitt agrees with Obama so much. No, really. Why vote?"

'@GregMitch: Fox admits it dial turners reached highest joy point at “horses and bayonets.”'

"@keithboykin: CBS poll: 53% say Obama won debate. Only 23% say Romney."

"@ppppolls We have a post-debate poll running in the swing states & Obama was the clear winner"

"Zach Green ‏@140elect 3.6 times more tweets after the debate say “Obama won” than say “Romney won”

"@JimHeath10TV Over 1,000 votes cast in our @10TV instant Debate Poll: Obama 58%, Romney 42%."

"@keithboykin: CNN says more Republicans watched the debate than Democrats, and yet Obama still won.”

"Seven out of eight members of CNN’s focus group say Obama won the debate, the eight thinks it was a tie. No one thinks Romney won."

"@CNBC: t.co... Survey Results: Who do you think won the debate? Obama: 67%, Romney: 30%, Neither: 3%"

“@ppppolls: We went into the field in NV as soon as the debate ended for a poll that will be released Wednesday and voters there say Obama won big too”

@ReutersPolitics Obama made the stronger arguments during the debate: 63% Obama, 33% Romney

More here:

americablog.com...

Personally, I think debates are nothing but a horse and pony show, I like to look a little behind the scenes. Some people have questioned why Romney mentioned Israel so many times. Well, maybe they should read this here
Below is a list of Mitt Romney’s foreign policy advisers complete with lists to many, but not all, of their groups, organizations, and affiliations that should be the focus of much concern.

Cofer Black; torture architect; Blackwater; Central Intelligence Agency; Department of State Coordinator for Counter-terrorism; Total Intelligence Solutions; CIA case officer in Zambia during the Rhodesian Bush War and Somalia during the Ethiopian/Somalian conflict; CIA officer in South Africa during the conflict between South African government and “anti-apartheid militias;” CIA officer in Zaire where he helped armed “anti-communist guerrillas” in Angola; CIA Station Chief in Sudan in 1993, the same time Osama bin Laden was allegedly located there; CIA agent in Afghanistan in 1998, at the same time Osama bin Laden was allegedly there; CIA Task Force Chief in the Near East and South Asia Division; Deputy Chief of the CIA Latin America Division; Director of the Counter Terrorism Center (position held on 9/11); well-known for having withheld important information regarding the alleged 9/11 hijackers; Department of State’s Ambassador At Large;

Christopher Burnham; Bush era appointee; Deustche Bank;

Michael Chertoff; Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security; legally advised in favor of torture, body scanner beneficiary; Co-author of PATRIOT ACT; Covington and Burling;Chertoff Group; Institute For Cultural Diplomacy; Latham and Watkins; active in Whitewater Investigation; Assistant Attorney General;

Eliot Cohen; Project for A New American Century; Committee For the Liberation of Iraq; Zionist; Iran war supporter; Council on Foreign Relations; Trilateral Commission; Defense Policy Board; American Enterprise Institute; Aspen Institute; Praeger Security International;

Norm Coleman; Republican-Jewish Coaltion; Freemason; Iraq war supporter; American Action Network; Israel Project; National Endowment For Democracy; Republican Main Street Project; Ripon Society;

John Danilovich; Knight of Malta; Council on Foreign Relations; Globalization and “Free Trade” promoter as member of the Initiative For Global Development; Millennium Challenge Corporation; .

Paula Dobriansky; Council on Foreign Relations; Climate Change promoter; Trilateral Commission; Institute For Cultural Diplomacy; Belfer Center For Science and International Affairs;Bipartisan Policy Center; Freedom House; Hungary’s International Center for Democratic Transitions; Australia-American Dialogue; National Endowment for Democracy; American Council of Young Political Leaders;

Eric Edelman; Iran war proponent; Iraq war proponent; Foreign Policy Initiative; Center For Strategic and Budgetary Assessments; Council on Foreign Relations; Philip Merrill Center for Strategic Studies;

Michael Hayden; Former CIA Director, Former Director of the NSA (where he oversaw domestic wiretapping), Former Director of National Intelligence, Former Commander of the Air Intelligence Agency, Proponent of the Trailblazer Project, Former Director of the Joint Command and Control Warfare Center, Torture proponent, argued against Probable Cause, Council on Foreign Relations, principal at the Chertoff Group, Board of Directors of Motorola Services,

Kerry Healey; Council on Foreign Relations, State Department’s Executive Committee of the Public-Private Partnership for Justice Reform in Afghanistan (founded by Condoleeza Rice)

Kim Holmes; Council on Foreign Relations, Vice President of Foreign and Defense Policy Studies at the Heritage Foundation, Institute for International Strategic Studies.

Robert Joseph; U.S. Chief Negotiator to Libya in 2003 (regarding nuclear weapons), National Institute for Public Policy (NeoCon Think Tank), Center For Security Policy (Pro-Israel Think Tank); Rumored to have been responsible for the Iraq-WMD-Niger claims circulated by the Bush Administration.

Robert Kagan; Brookings Institution; Project For A New American Century; Carnegie Endowment for International Peace; Foreign Policy Initiative; Council on Foreign Relations; political advisor to John McCain; Serves on Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s Foreign Affairs Policy Board; Trilateral Commission; Committee for the Liberation of Iraq; Skull and Bones; US Committee on NATO; Henry Jackson Society;

continued in next post

President Barack Obama sparked an onslaught of Twitter commentary, Google searches and fact-checking when he referenced “horses and bayonets” in Monday night’s third and final presidential debate.

"Horses and Bayonets" Tweets:

“horses and bayonets” is the new “binders”— Matt Mackowiak (@MattMackowiak)

Seeing a lot of outrage from military folks on Obama’s two sequestration jokes, esp. on the bayonets. A lot.— Ellen Carmichael (@ellencarmichael)

I guess that’s one thing you don’t learn as president. RT @pambestederWow! Just heard on Fox News that Marines STILL use bayonets!— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter)

Heh: RT @jpodhoretz Obama just lost the Civil War reenactors with that attack on bayonets.— Michelle Malkin (@michellemalkin)

Speak louder and carry a big bayonet.— daveweigel (@daveweigel)

Presidential debate: Sharp reaction to Obama's 'bayonets'
By KATIE GLUECK | 10/22/12 11:17 PM EDT

John Lehman; member of the 9/11 Commission; Foreign Policy Research Institute; Project For A New American Century; National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon The United States; Heritage Foundation; Center For Security Policy; Committee on the Present Danger; J.F. Lehman and Company; Hawaii Superferry; Princess Grace Foundation – USA; Ball Corporation; Partnership For A Secure America; Council on Foreign Relations; Staff member to Henry Kissinger at the National Security Agency; Securing America’s Energy Future;Straight Talk America; Paine Webber;

Walid Phares, Foundation for Defense of Democracies; European Foundation for Democracy; Trans-Atlantic Parliamentary Group on Counter Jihadi-Terrorism; Wikistrat; Department of Homeland Security;

Pierre Prosper; Arent Fox;

Mitchell Reiss; served under Brent Scowcroft at the National Security Council; Council on Foreign Relations; Ford Foundation; Director of Policy Planning at State Department, Center For Strategic & International Studies;

Daniel Senor; Carlyle Group; advisor to Ambassador Paul Bremer in Iraq; Council on Foreign Relations; Foreign Policy Initiative;

Jim Talent; Heritage Foundation; Arent Fox;

Vin Weber; Project For A New American Century; Clark & Weinstock; National Endowment For Democracy; Humphrey Institute; Institute For Law and Politics; Council on Foreign Relations; Aspen Institute; America’s Success PAC; Americans for a Republican Majority; America’s Foundation; Bilderberg Group; Citizens Against Government Waste; Empower America; American Abroad Media; Progress and Freedom Foundation; New Republican Majority Fund; The Freedom Project;


Richard Williamson; Winston & Strawn; Special Envoy to Sudan (2008-2009); International Republican Institute; Council on Foreign Relations; Committee in Support of Russian Civil Society; Committee on the Present Danger; Straight Talk America;

Dov Zakheim; Council on Foreign Relations; The Vulcans; Project For A New American Century; SPC International; International Institute For Strategic Studies; Heritage Foundation;Center For Strategic and International Studies; Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller) tasked with tracking down the Pentagon’s missing 2.3 trillion dollars; Commission on Wartime Contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan; Senior Vice President of Booz Allen Hamilton; CNA Corporation; Center For Strategic and International Studies; Global Panel America; Chatham House; Royal Institute of International Affairs; Royal Swedish Academy of War Sciences; American Jewish Committee; System Planning Corp.; Northrop Grumman; McDonnell Douglas; London School of Economics;

And, a few have an allegiance to another country.

Dov Zakheim - (Israeli Dual Citizen)
Robert Kagan - (Israeli Dual Citizen)
Michael Chertoff – (Israeli Dual Citizen)
Eliot Cohen – (Israeli Dual Citizen)
Eric Edelman – (Israeli Dual Citizen)
John Lehman – (Israeli Dual Citizen)
Evan Feigenbaum – (Israeli Dual Citizen)
Aaron Friedberg – (Israeli Dual Citizen)
Kent Lucken – (Israeli Dual Citizen)
Kristen Silverberg – (Israeli Dual Ctizen)

Yup Romney looked Presidential, Obama looked like a lawyer.

Romney won the third presidential debate – and how he did it was encapsulated in a single exchange. The candidates were discussing military spending and Romney had just accused Obama of making harmful cutbacks. The President wheeled out what must have seemed like a great, pre-planned zinger: “I think Governor Romney maybe hasn't spent enough time looking at how our military works. You mentioned the navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well, governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets because the nature of our military's changed.” The audience laughed, Obama laughed, I laughed. It was funny.

But here’s why it was also a vote loser. For a start, Twitter immediately lit up with examples of how the US Army does still use horses and bayonets (horses were used during the invasion of Afghanistan). More importantly, this was one example of many in which the President insulted, patronised and mocked his opponent rather than put across a constructive argument. His performance was rude and unpresidential. Obama seemed to have a touch of the Bidens, wriggling about in his chair, waving his hands dismissively and always – always – smirking in Romney’s direction. By contrast, Romney sucked up the abuse and retained a rigid poker face all night. He looked like a Commander in Chief; Obama looked like a lawyer. Who would you rather vote for?

Read More:
Romney won the presidential debate by looking presidential. Obama had a painful case of Biden's smile
By Tim Stanley
blogs.telegraph.co.uk... mile/

Originally posted by alternateuniverse
Yup Romney looked Presidential, Obama looked like a lawyer.

OK, Romney says that we now have less ships than we did in 1916. He doesn't mention that we didn't have a terrific carrier force or some awesome hunter/kiiller subs. We didn't then. We do now. How do the numbers matter when the quality of the force changes so drastically over the century? Damn right we don't use arrows any more.

And what it means is this: Romney plays to the dumbest common denominator, as usual. Some people will buy that, for sure. For me personally, this is not being "presidential", that's being a schmuck I'll never want to have a beer with.

None of them came across as natural leaders, and the debate was more of who supports israel the most, romney kissed israel ass like a pro.

I though it was a american debate about american policies not who got israel back the most...

You americans have totally lost your way, if these 2 are the best leaders of men you could find out of 311 million people..God help you.

Barack Obama pointed out that Mitt Romney's foreign policy was stuck in the 1980's. If Barry did his homework, instead of smoking Choom, he'd realize that was the wrong thing to say. Romney could've pointed out that Ronald Reagan's peace through strength is what caused the Berlin Wall to topple down. He could've pointed out that the former Soviet Union's crumbling economics helped force the dissolution of the Eastern Communist bloc and knocked Russia off the super power ladder. Reagan' peace through strength 1980's foreign policy established the United States as the one true super power in the world.

Just my "thoughts", nothing else.

What scares me is Obama Care, its going into affect next year, yet We don't understand anything about, what will it cover? how much will it cost? what's its all about.

I'm afraid I know what "Obama Care" is-it's just another "tax". How do you "tax" Americans who are taxed to death already, especially when our country is trillions in debt, prices are sky rocketing, unemployment rising businesses moving overseas, more wars and rumors of wars...so how do you implement a "new tax"? Simple, offer something they won't refuse, and what is expensive and will bankrupt you in the "USA"? Bingo! "Health Care"!

I had insurance once through my "union" work, went to the dentist just for a "check-up" (didn't fix anything), the dentists charged my insurance full and then even send mt letters that I owe $150 on top of that. Of course I'm angry about that, for the amount they charged my insurance I could have fixed couple of me teeth without it and pay cash.

Anyway, as much I'd like every "citizen" of the USA to have health-care, one that doesn't take your house away because you can't afford to pay for a $200.000 surgery, I'm afraid Obama Care is just another tax. We are trillions in debt as a country, now ask yourselves...do you think government cares about your "well being"? You think this "Obama Care" is implemented to get "you well"? Or is it just another "tax"? I think deep down You all know the answer.

Another thing, I asked couple blacks at the college I go to who will they vote and just for their opinion overall, I was curious. Everyone said for sure Obama cause his "black" man and will help us. I mean, they didn't care about his politics, his ideas etc., just cause of his color. This is a tragedy.

Some of you people sound stupid!

Obama is absolutely SCHOOLING Romney on foreign policy!

To be fair...Mitt doesn't have access to the best intelligence in the world. HOW could he box with the President on this issue?

reply to post by promenion


Speaking of Obamacare, it looks like Obama telling seniors that changing Medicare, to make room for Obamacare, will not affect their level of care....is proving to be a lie!

Several months ago, President Obama’s Health and Human Services (HHS) secretary, Kathleen Sebelius, initiated the Senior Swindle, an $8.35 billion ploy (far more than either presidential campaign will raise this year) to hide the effects of Obamacare’s Medicare Advantage cuts from seniors until after the election.

www.weeklystandard.com...

Here are the average poll results from Real Clear Politics for the last year.

Obviously Obama has been out in front all the way, until the last couple of weeks. The debates appear to have helped Romney, but at the very latest average Obama seems to be resurging.

www.realclearpolitics.com...



I can't see, given the numbers above, how Obama can lose this election, but there is only one poll that really counts as we all know.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by alternateuniverse
Yup Romney looked Presidential, Obama looked like a lawyer.

OK, Romney says that we now have less ships than we did in 1916. He doesn't mention that we didn't have a terrific carrier force or some awesome hunter/kiiller subs. We didn't then. We do now. How do the numbers matter when the quality of the force changes so drastically over the century? Damn right we don't use arrows any more.

And what it means is this: Romney plays to the dumbest common denominator, as usual. Some people will buy that, for sure. For me personally, this is not being "presidential", that's being a schmuck I'll never want to have a beer with.

I think most of you are missing the point Romney was trying to make. We are no longer capable of fighting 2 major wars. Our ability to do so in the past has been the key to our strength and some would argue, our survival. Romney wants to increase the strength of our military by making us capable of defending ourselves on two fronts simultaneously. Unfortunately Obama chose to get a cheap shot in rather that focus on the real issue. I don't blame him for doing so though, The vast majority of the military do not support Obama and he has no plans for building up our capabilities.

I am not a Romney supporter but I can see the truth in his statement.

Let's look at the beginning of Obama's closing statements...

OBAMA: Well, thank you very much, Bob, Governor Romney, and to Lynn University. You've now heard three debates, months of campaigning and way too many TV commercials. And now you've got a choice. Over the last four years we've made real progress digging our way out of policies that gave us two prolonged wars, record deficits and the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

Really?

Does Obama really believe he made real progress?

Does Obama really believe that he's digging us out of record deficits?

Obama can complain about bankers and the last mortgage crisis that really started this downhill slide, but what is he doing about? From my understanding, FHA loans are the new subprime mortgage loans. What's he doing to keep FHA loans from going bad? It looks like we have another mortgage crisis on it's way and it's being hushed up while Obama leads everyone to believe the housing industry is in recovery mode. NOT!

From Left-Leaning Politico:

Mitt Romney wins debate season By JOE SCARBOROUGH | 10/23/12 5:41 AM EDT

President Obama came into the first debate in Denver as a heavyweight champ circling his battered, over-matched foe. But Obama let the challenger off the mat and deliver enough blows to change the contest's momentum in dramatic fashion. The next debate was a messy tossup round that barely went to Barack, and last night continued that trend.

President Obama showed superior knowledge to his challenger on almost every question raised involving foreign policy. But I found his tone, at times, to be jarring for a sitting commander in chief. I would roll my eyes at a cable news pundit who used the line "The 80s called and they want their foreign policy back." But that line is cringe-inducing from a president. His snarky response to Mitt Romney's legitimate concern about the shrinking size of the U.S. Navy was also unfortunate.

It was an answer, no doubt, that got partisan Democrats to their feet across the country. But the response from swing voters across America (and especially Virginia) was probably less enthusiastic. Humor plays well in presidential debates. Biting sarcasm does not.

"You mentioned the Navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916," President Obama said. "Well, Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets, because the nature of our military's changed. "We have these things called aircraft carriers, where planes land on them. We have these ships that go under water, nuclear submarines," he said.

It was an answer, no doubt, that got partisan Democrats to their feet across the country. But the response from swing voters across America (and especially Virginia) was probably less enthusiastic. Humor plays well in presidential debates. Biting sarcasm does not.

reply to post by ipsedixit

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by promenion

 

Speaking of Obamacare, it looks like Obama telling seniors that changing Medicare, to make room for Obamacare, will not affect their level of care....is proving to be a lie!

Several months ago, President Obama’s Health and Human Services (HHS) secretary, Kathleen Sebelius, initiated the Senior Swindle, an $8.35 billion ploy (far more than either presidential campaign will raise this year) to hide the effects of Obamacare’s Medicare Advantage cuts from seniors until after the election.

www.weeklystandard.com...

Romney and Obama's foreign policy are nearly identical. Romney just claims he would act tougher,send a clearer signal to Islamic Extremist, and gave unequivocal support for Israel. Since their foreign policy is basically indistinguishable, the real focus should be on who is better qualified to get our economy back on track. I think Romney wins this hands down. Obama did not outline anything different for the next 4 years. We needed real hope and change and Obama failed to deliver.
Romney has the business credentials and experience but he still has to battle the Democrats in Congress. If he does win this will be his biggest stumbling block. He is counting on bi-partisanship. That is simply not going to happen. So I am not optimistic about either candidate. I simply don't see any light at the end of the rainbow either way.

Originally posted by Sparky63
I think most of you are missing the point Romney was trying to make. We are no longer capable of fighting 2 major wars. Our ability to so in the past has been the key to our strength and some would argue, our survival.

America is in no danger whatsoever from attack by any other nation.

Romney wants to increase the strength of our military by making us capable of defending ourselves on two fronts simultaneously.

Romney wants to be able to start wars on two fronts simultaneously.

Unfortunately Obama chose to get a cheap shot in rather that focus on the real issue.

Obama is right on point with this issue. Military spending is inherently useless unless you are at war. Military spending is leading to social unrest at home. America can cut military spending significantly without damage to its overall security.

America, as everybody knows, especially America's enemies, like Venezuela, spends more than the next ten countries combined on the military. Cutting military spending will have absolutely no effect on America's ability to deal with enemies, real or imagined.

Five of the next nine biggest military spenders in the world are traditional American allies.

America has absolutely nothing to fear in the military sphere. It is high time that the stranglehold that the military industrial complex has on the budget be loosened just a little bit so that the rest of the economy can breathe a little.

The exaggerated notions that Americans have of their military vulnerability border on lunacy.

Interesting tweets about debate

Marc Thiessen ‏@marcthiessen: By refusing to take the bait on Obama's attacks, Romney is looking presidential and allowing Obama to make himself small

KT McFarland ‏@ktmcfarland: O says if ISrael is attacked, he stands with israel - yikes did O just bestow full mutual defense treaty w/ Israel?

Laura Ingraham ‏@IngrahamAngle: Ch-ch-ch-ch...anging! Obama now Bibi's best friend! Mr Prez, u met w/ Joy Behar instead of Bibi!

Piers Morgan ‏@piersmorgan: Nobody's winning this - both being equally safe/calm/dull. #PMTdebate.

Larry Sabato ‏@LarrySabato: Obama has mentioned women rights 3 or 4 times in foreign context. Are women a key part of his coalition? Could that be it?

Mary Kissel ‏@marykissel: Who's the bigger currency manipulator -- the People's Bank of China, or Ben Bernanke's Fed? #2012.

mike murphy ‏@murphymike: Obama really acting like he feels behind. Interesting...

Hugh Hewitt ‏@hughhewitt: Romney again displaying cool confidence in answering Pakistan question from Bob....warning of failed state...very very good for undecideds

Piers Morgan ‏@piersmorgan: Got a feeling that Obama chucking Biden under a bus over Bin Laden won't play very well tomorrow. Big mistake - looked