Question About Prayer

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posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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One thing that always bothered my logical mind growing up about prayer:

If we were able to get every Christian on Earth to all pray at the same time for a man to regrow his leg, would it?

I have heard of instances where prayer seemed to "magically" work. Perhaps the placebo effect?

Can we try to organize millions to regrow someone's leg? Lets see if it works!




posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


There's many scientific studies done on the effects of prayer on the ill. Some results showed that the controlled 'prayer' group had longer stays in the hospital than the non-prayer group. Prayer may have psychological effects on the one doing the praying (relief of stress, anxiety etc.), but the results for the one being prayed for are entirely inconclusive.

Prayer healing



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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Yes, but can it grow a limb back?

Jesus supposedly made blind men see. I have no doubt that the effect of positive thinking can have actual real world effects.

I remember reading someplace that they did studies with meditation in Washington DC, and crime was actually reduced. I need to find that information...

However, can Christians really claim that if enough of them prayed they could grow someone limb?



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


No, prayer cannot grow a limb back. It doesn't possess any healing qualities when performed.

The meditation experiment you are referring to was a test of the Maharishi Effect



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


Ah ha! Thank you for providing that link!

I wonder if one could link prayer into Rupert Sheldrake's morphic field theory?



"Morphic field" is a term introduced by Sheldrake. He proposes that there is a field within and around a "morphic unit" which organizes its characteristic structure and pattern of activity.[19] According to Sheldrake, the "morphic field" underlies the formation and behaviour of "holons" and "morphic units", and can be set up by the repetition of similar acts or thoughts. The hypothesis is that a particular form belonging to a certain group, which has already established its (collective) "morphic field", will tune into that "morphic field". The particular form will read the collective information through the process of "morphic resonance", using it to guide its own development. This development of the particular form will then provide, again through "morphic resonance", a feedback to the "morphic field" of that group, thus strengthening it with its own experience, resulting in new information being added (i.e. stored in the database). Sheldrake regards the "morphic fields" as a universal database for both organic (genetic) and abstract (mental) forms.


Wikipedia Link



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by MystikMushroom
One thing that always bothered my logical mind growing up about prayer:

If we were able to get every Christian on Earth to all pray at the same time for a man to regrow his leg, would it?

I have heard of instances where prayer seemed to "magically" work. Perhaps the placebo effect?

Can we try to organize millions to regrow someone's leg? Lets see if it works!


Of all the instances that you've heard where prayer seemed to work, what is it about those that causes you to question whether or not they were actually answered?

I for one drowned when I was a child, I didn't need the help of a nurse or any adult whatsoever, another kid helped me out of the water, no cpr needed, no worrys..because after that I knew that if God could allow me to drown and give me the choice to life and follow through with my personal decision by allowing me back into my body...when my mouth and nose finally surfaced, my mouth was opened by an invisible tangible force and my stomach and lungs evacuated of water, the camp counselor actualy asked me why I was so pale, I didn't tell her.

Now, you tell me, why should a little girl who is alive and well tell an adult that she had died? No point, because that little girl is alive and now has a little one of her own. My son will know about God's works because I will tell him about them. My parents, though they themselves drank and smoked pot (at the time) allowed me to go to "kid's church" and if it weren't for those early years of experiencing my own child-like faith that came with RESULTS, even if my parents had no idea that I was praying and having prayers answered.

Sometimes when the house is messy (I have a toddler), when people comment on how the place is "still" messy, I ask them, "Do I have to clean up in front of you and make regular announcements on every good deed that I do?" The bible says to let your good deeds be done in secret, because God isn't impressed with someone who spends 10 million dollars advertizing that their buisness gave two million dollars to some charity cause.
Personally I am inclined to believe that IF you can get as many Christians as you can to pray for someone, then you'd have a pretty good chance of that prayer being answered.
And I must say, I don't believe that the "placebo effect" is unbiblical, it is recorded in that book that Jesus said in more than one instance, "Your faith has made you well."

For the record my parents do now firmly believe in the existence of God, they've told me instances where they've seen the need for prayer, prayed, and had their prayers speedily answered. They sin daily, and so do I, I'm not proud to say it but it's true. Did God answer our prayers knowing full well that we'd be capable of sinning still? I'll bet he did, and he did it anyway, he helped us.

My logic tells me that when Jesus told that woman caught in adultry to "go and sin no more", he meant it, he didn't wink at her after he said that. I believe that Jesus knew that the woman knew that adultry was a sin, she did it anyway and got caught, the thing is, she probably expected to die that day the crowd wanted to stone her, she even asked Jesus if he was going to punish her somehow, she knew she was guilty and she knew Jesus knew she was guilty but Jesus didn't complain to her about how she already knows she shouldn't be doing those things. He didn't complain to her that now her reputation was marred as a person deserving death. He didn't tell her that he knows what it's like to be tempted but that he resisted it then why couldn't she? He didn't tell her, "Oh people sin all the time.." He told her, "go and sin no more".

The point of my post is this: Sinners do pray and they do get their prayers answered, you don't need to consider youself a Christian in order to be capable of praying. I don't consider myself a Christian, I don't go to church, but I do think about God every single day. Does that mean that I think I'm going to heaven? No. Because I don't think I'm going to heaven does that mean that I should try to convince myself that God isn't real and everything I've experienced is a delusion? No, because like many other sinners I FIRMLY believe that God is real and to me there will NEVER be any "evidence" to prove to me otherwise because I've seen enough evidence first hand to prove to me that God is real and that he loves me and wants me to "go and sin no more".

The logical problem that I have with Christianity is that I far too often come across pastors and Christians "with authority" who tell me that Jesus never did expect that woman to stop sinning, they'd say that Jesus told her to do something that he never believed her capable of doing. ick



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by MystikMushroom
 




You're a little late with that question but here ya go...

whywontgodhealamputees.com...

rationalwiki.org...

whywontgodhealamputees.com...
edit on 22/10/12 by blupblup because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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And if this second post isn't evidence enough to show you that threads like these don't make me doubt God's "healing properties" whatsoever, they actually call to my memory the times where I was healed physically and emotionally.
I can't help but add that there are people out there who do in fact practice magic through the use of demons and even claim to heal others, but I honestly wouldn't recommend them.
As for the poster who said that God can't regrow a limb? I (obviously) disagree. I noticed that there are plenty of people willing to look for methods to force God to do this or that but I certainly didn't bring myself back to life, I could have yelled and screamed to be put back into my body and it would have done no good. It only happened because God wanted me to take my life up again that he told the angel to tell me that I was able to live in this body if I wanted. If the angel hadn't told me that I was able to choose to go back into my body, I wouldn't have known that I had a choice, he could have thought it to himself all he wanted but if he didn't tell me I wouldn't have known.
Lets say I asked you for some money, would you give it to me? Lets say I asked the President for money, would he give it to me? He certainly has the money why wouldn't he spare ten dollars, what I really want is to see if he gives a damn about even an ordinary citizen like myself right?
In my lowest lows I asked God to show me that he loves me, and he has left me without a doubt each time that he has heard me and loves me. I could give some examples if you'd like.

If you are like some people who refuse to believe someone who is telling you about their own first hand experiences, and prefer references and titles instead, then please allow me to share this with you, as I am currently under the assumption that you are willing to look for evidence to suggest as well as evidence to deny, though I have been wrong before, here it is:
You know, I can think of several sources where MANY people talk about their experiences, but people still refuse to believe them, Jesus said, "If they won't listen to Moses and the prophets, they won't listen even if someone rises from the dead." Jesus rose from the dead, many people still don't believe Moses and the prophets, they won't even bother to listen, apparently what Moses and the prophets went through emotionally can hardly even be imagined because of the preachers and pastors of today demand their respect and authority. Moses and the prophets didn't go around tellinig crowds "I am a man of God!", they went around saying and doing whatever God told them to do even if their preachers and pastors of their day told them, "That's not how we do things around here." You aren't going to get stoned for comitting adultry today, but in this day and age, Christians (yes even Christian pastors and ministers whatever they would like their title to be) would highly object to someone, anyone, telling them, "Go and sin no more." The adultress may have taken it seriously, she may not have..but that doesn't excuse the fact that she was told to stop sinning. These days it's "We're ALL sinners, the worst kind though is someone who tells us we should stop because that's the worst kind, boasters...we're sinners, they're sinners, we don't change, all things don't become new, we still sin and we have no buisness discouraging others from the habit otherwise we'd be hypocrites. And sinners who don't praise God with their lips are going to hell."
Paraphrased of course, but obviously I'm not better than anyone because I sin, I'm merely pointing out that my believes are different from Christians in that I, a sinner am counting on God's rules and whether or not I've followed them when I die rather than a get out of jail free card. I will be judged by my deeds, that's what the bible says and I believe it, the bible also says that sin gives birth to death and I believe that as well. Jesus is Life how can a logical person sin which leads to death and claim that they've got Jesus, the truth, the life, and the only way?

The reason that I believe it's possible for the person to have their limb regrown if all the Christians in the world would pray for that person is because of the parable Jesus told about the unjust judge.
edit on 10/01/11 by Wonders because: To add.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Wonders
And if this second post isn't evidence enough to show you that threads like these don't make me doubt God's "healing properties" whatsoever, they actually call to my memory the times where I was healed physically and emotionally.
I can't help but add that there are people out there who do in fact practice magic through the use of demons and even claim to heal others, but I honestly wouldn't recommend them.
As for the poster who said that God can't regrow a limb? I (obviously) disagree. I noticed that there are plenty of people willing to look for methods to force God to do this or that but I certainly didn't bring myself back to life, I could have yelled and screamed to be put back into my body and it would have done no good. It only happened because God wanted me to take my life up again that he told the angel to tell me that I was able to live in this body if I wanted. If the angel hadn't told me that I was able to choose to go back into my body, I wouldn't have known that I had a choice, he could have thought it to himself all he wanted but if he didn't tell me I wouldn't have known.
Lets say I asked you for some money, would you give it to me? Lets say I asked the President for money, would he give it to me? He certainly has the money why wouldn't he spare ten dollars, what I really want is to see if he gives a damn about even an ordinary citizen like myself right?
In my lowest lows I asked God to show me that he loves me, and he has left me without a doubt each time that he has heard me and loves me.

Here are some examples. When I was a kid I looked everywhere in that old little house for my snowpants and could not find them anywhere. My mom was busy with my four younger siblings


Out of curiosity, how do you know what god wants?

Also, tips of fingers have grown back, but entire limbs have never regenerated. Ever. So if you disagree, may I ask on what basis?



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by Wonders
And if this second post isn't evidence enough to show you that threads like these don't make me doubt God's "healing properties" whatsoever, they actually call to my memory the times where I was healed physically and emotionally.
I can't help but add that there are people out there who do in fact practice magic through the use of demons and even claim to heal others, but I honestly wouldn't recommend them.
As for the poster who said that God can't regrow a limb? I (obviously) disagree. I noticed that there are plenty of people willing to look for methods to force God to do this or that but I certainly didn't bring myself back to life, I could have yelled and screamed to be put back into my body and it would have done no good. It only happened because God wanted me to take my life up again that he told the angel to tell me that I was able to live in this body if I wanted. If the angel hadn't told me that I was able to choose to go back into my body, I wouldn't have known that I had a choice, he could have thought it to himself all he wanted but if he didn't tell me I wouldn't have known.
Lets say I asked you for some money, would you give it to me? Lets say I asked the President for money, would he give it to me? He certainly has the money why wouldn't he spare ten dollars, what I really want is to see if he gives a damn about even an ordinary citizen like myself right?
In my lowest lows I asked God to show me that he loves me, and he has left me without a doubt each time that he has heard me and loves me.

Here are some examples. When I was a kid I looked everywhere in that old little house for my snowpants and could not find them anywhere. My mom was busy with my four younger siblings


Out of curiosity, how do you know what god wants?

Also, tips of fingers have grown back, but entire limbs have never regenerated. Ever. So if you disagree, may I ask on what basis?

Alright you want to go there, that's fine. I believe it's possible to know what God wants because God tells those who are his what he wants. If God can bring me back to life, don't you think that he could regrow some limb?
As God replied to Moses in Exodus 4:11
-Then the LORD said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by Wonders
And if this second post isn't evidence enough to show you that threads like these don't make me doubt God's "healing properties" whatsoever, they actually call to my memory the times where I was healed physically and emotionally.
I can't help but add that there are people out there who do in fact practice magic through the use of demons and even claim to heal others, but I honestly wouldn't recommend them.
As for the poster who said that God can't regrow a limb? I (obviously) disagree. I noticed that there are plenty of people willing to look for methods to force God to do this or that but I certainly didn't bring myself back to life, I could have yelled and screamed to be put back into my body and it would have done no good. It only happened because God wanted me to take my life up again that he told the angel to tell me that I was able to live in this body if I wanted. If the angel hadn't told me that I was able to choose to go back into my body, I wouldn't have known that I had a choice, he could have thought it to himself all he wanted but if he didn't tell me I wouldn't have known.
Lets say I asked you for some money, would you give it to me? Lets say I asked the President for money, would he give it to me? He certainly has the money why wouldn't he spare ten dollars, what I really want is to see if he gives a damn about even an ordinary citizen like myself right?
In my lowest lows I asked God to show me that he loves me, and he has left me without a doubt each time that he has heard me and loves me.

Here are some examples. When I was a kid I looked everywhere in that old little house for my snowpants and could not find them anywhere. My mom was busy with my four younger siblings


Out of curiosity, how do you know what god wants?

Also, tips of fingers have grown back, but entire limbs have never regenerated. Ever. So if you disagree, may I ask on what basis?

Alright you want to go there, that's fine. I believe it's possible to know what God wants because God tells those who are his what he wants. If God can bring me back to life, don't you think that he could regrow some limb?
As God replied to Moses in Exodus 4:11
-Then the LORD said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?


No I don't want to go there. I'm interested in how you arrive at such a conclusion. I want to know how you think limbs can grow back if it has never happened before?

So what did God tell you?



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


Read the biography of Smith Wiggleworth live in early 1900's documented cases of people being raised from the dead limbs beging grown back and other such things.





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