The joyful joys of Job Seekers allowance just got more joyful in the UK

Will Jobcentre Plus? pay for the CRB and a car for those who don't have one? Just a point by the way.

Do you know what astounds me that people have a go at benefit claimants i myself was one but then i came to understand that really its a real good government and media ploy lets make cuts from the poor you know the lazy no good leeches of society that want to sit around all day watching jeremy kyle.........

I have paid tax hundreds of pounds a week and i used to hate benefit claimants.....

Then i found out about corporate tax avoidance and why is this not sorted the country loses literally billions of pounds a year through it for example facebook earned £275 million approx last year in UK revenue and paid a measly £275,000 in tax

They are just one of Many corporations that do this why is this not brought up instead of taxing and making cuts on the poor...

The benefits is small fry lets make corporate tax avoidance our number 1 priority

Namaste

Originally posted by JeZeus
...and before leaving was offered the opportunity to go to university and become a civil engineer.... being young and stubborn i declined.

No disrespect to you JeZeus but I think this was your mistake, if you get an opportunity pass you by you take it with both hands.

The culture of money for nothing has crept into society like a silent assassin and it's going to be hard to eradicate, those with military service appreciate the value of life, those sat on their couch watching mindless TV do not.

Not tarring all job seekers with the same brush, I'm sure workers that were stable in a job but found themselves redundant are the ones that really benefit with a return to some stability.

Originally posted by theruthlessone
Then i found out about corporate tax avoidance and why is this not sorted the country loses literally billions of pounds a year through it for example facebook earned £275 million approx last year in UK revenue and paid a measly £275,000 in tax

Yes stats like this are shocking, I heard somewhere that if all the corporations in the UK actually settled their tax bills the UK deficit would be cleared - that's £90 billion!
( www.hm-treasury.gov.uk... )

Originally posted by allnamestaken


The safety net is there to help people, the sanctions come strong and hard for the people who abuse our system.
If you have been sanctioned at any time in the previous 52 weeks then if you get sanctioned again when you rapid reclaim then you are vulnerable to being sanctioned at tier two level ie 56 weeks.

so your saying, if one gets sanctioned....but signs off.....the sanction will disapear after a year?...cool

I suggest instead of coming onto Abovetopsecret to slander the mouth that feeds you that you fix your situation.

bit deep...most members have a bit of a rant,,,,but other members will help him with his percpective

and that is my first posts

thanx for your informative post!

dbl post

The safety net is there to help people, the sanctions come strong and hard for the people who abuse our system.

reply to post by allnamestaken


Which is anybody on job seekers according to most in this thread. if you think it is only those who abuse the system who get sanctioned I would disagree.

Person A could apply for 30 jobs a weeks, but one day he is told there is a job going at xyz and he is put forward to apply for it. however he is phoned for a interview hours later and is excited, they work on getting everything prepared for the job interview and practice their interview skills, they go to the interview and it seems to go well, they are happy and hopeful and know the phone call is coming the next day, the next day they sit patiently by the phone get a phone call, they didn't get the job but they were close. then hours later they remember about the job they were told to apply for which they forgot in the excitement of a possible job, and oh no the closing date was today........... they are sanctioned for not applying for it.

meanwhile Person B who can only be arsed to apply for two jobs a week and makes up anything else they can to fit in, doesn't have much to do, never gets called for interview due to lack of applications gets on by sanction free.

if you think it is only those abusing the system who will be sanctioned then fine. but i know person A deserves the benefit more than person B.

This has already happened in america. that is how our system is set up as well. We aren't worse off than you yet because we lie and say we have money. When our country clearly doesn't. However it won't change no matter what the politicians say because it is a plan. It has worked perfectly for those it is designed for. Here everyone is losing all their money and everything they have slowly. First it was manufacturing, then technology, then construction, then office workers, now government/state employees and anyone who's job is not essential. It will not end until the people rise up. The UK and the USA are the same and tied together, our fates are the same. Unless we as a people do something about it. However it will need to happen in the UK first because americans have been systematically made dumber, unhealthy, subservient, and actually afraid of thinking of the big picture.

Some of the replies here using terms such as "scroungers" are frankly beyond belief. Well done people, you are in employment that has resisted the economic climate in the UK. That does not put you in a position to pass judgement on people whose circumstances you know nothing about. The irony of these posts appearing on a site that is supposed to be about denying ignorance is not lost on me, and they are just the kind of MSM fuelled rants that this government want to hear more of.

The overwhelming majority of people claiming benefits are in genuine need. Not for one moment would I dispute that there are some who refuse to work but they are very much a minority group amongst benefit claimants, regardless of what it says in the Daily Mail.

Wake up and begin to understand that large numbers of benefit claimants are a symptom of economic and industrial collapse, not the cause of it. The government make a lot of noise about tackling the symptoms, but do very little of real worth to address the root causes. They would much rather prop up a broken and discredited financial services industry than foster an environment in which we, as a nation, have a viable manufacturing industry. Trade has always been the foundation of economies. If you produce nothing, you have nothing to trade with and your economy becomes a closed circuit that feeds into and upon itself with no net gain being made.

Having been in a position myself last year where I had no option but to claim JSA I'm under no illusions about the reality of living on benefits. I am a formally trained graduate graphic designer with 12 years' professional experience, and during that time applied for dozens of jobs even though some of them would have left me little or no better off than I would have been on JSA once loss of housing and council tax benefit, travel expenses and other overheads were factored in. Eventually I learned that having been claiming JSA for six months I qualified for the Enterprise Allowance scheme. Basically this means that you sign off, go self employed and are paid an allowance equal to your JSA for three months which then reduces to half the rate of JSA for a further three months. You can also apply for a loan of up to £1000 towards start up expenses, at an APR of 10%. I can do better than that on my credit card. Hardly a generous scheme but it's preferable to the soul destroying trudge to the job centre every other week.

One year on and I'm actually no better off than I would have been on JSA and depend on working tax credits to survive. I still apply for employed positions but competition is very fierce and I live in an area that isn't exactly a hotbed of the creative industry. Unless business, and my industry as a whole, improves radically then when the benefit reforms come into force then I could be facing a situation where I am no longer entitled to working tax credits and will be faced with two options: claim JSA again or take any job I can find. More skills lost from the marketplace, potentially more burden on your precious taxes and another scrounger living it up on a princely £60 or so a week. Either way, a waste of skills and experience.

The more people who realise that not every benefit claimant is perfectly happy to sponge off their generous tax contributions, and get their heads around the fact that tackling the symptoms and not the causes of a broken economic model is at best flawed and at worst self defeating, the sooner we may be in a position to vote out our elitist self serving government and vote in one who may not be very much better but who may at least have other interests at heart than their own. We are, let's not forget, "all in it together".

What a horrible story OP. Send me a U2U. I'll send you some money that is worth half it's value in the UK. Seriously, I mean it.

When economic times are the toughest, without fail, people tend to turn on the neediest in society. Instead of ripping into the CEO receiving hundreds or thousands - or even millions - in corporate welfare, or the government lackey drawing a six figure salary for doing essentially nothing, people turn on the poor. The unemployed, those on the dole getting just hundreds a month.

Turn your ire on the REAL leeches in society, not on the struggling poor. No homeless person is homeless because he wants to be, that's a lie we tell ourselves to make ourselves feel better about the vast class divide in our society.

A lot of people have this notion that if you're poor, it must be because you didn't work hard enough. I call BS.

Originally posted by cody599
AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH. I was going to go into a rant, but, I stopped myself and thought about what to say here. I was made redundent a couple of years ago and signed on for job seekers allowance. LOOK AT WHAT IT IS CALLED ........................... JOB SEEKERS ALLOWANCE............not doss around and expect me to pay for you allowance. I am a highly skilled furniture maker, I once made a confrence table that cost £64,000 ........ so I guess I can say I'm pretty much at the top of the game. Whilst unemployed I went to sainsbury's, tesco's, mcdonalds,you name it I went there to SEEK A JOB didn't matter what or where as long as I was earning enough to support my family (albeit modestly) . When in South Africa I made the effort to go to sowetto to see REAL poverty and was humbled. I live on an estate where the council throw all the junkies drug dealers and single mums, BUT I pay my mortgage, my taxes, and all my bills. As a home owner I wasn't eligable for help, but if I was renting the council would have paid it for me, Around me I see people that have not worked a day in the 6 years I've lived here but are more than capable of doing so, they have better T.V.'s than me because I can't afford a 42" plasma (because I'm paying for guys like you). Are we gonna take it dossers whinging because they are scared of work ....... NO ............. Is it time you got off your lazy arse and stopped EXPECTING us to pay for you ....... YES .......... You obviously have access to a computer and internet try looking for a sodding job whilst using it instead of whining that the rest of us are sick of paying for you to sit around on your lazy arse whinging the job seekers isn't enough to buy a 3D T.V. and the latest X-box. Make and stand against the government ? ........... HELL YEAH ......... TO CUT YOUR BENIFITS AND FORCE YOU TO WORK. Just athought the army is recruting. Ever thought of helping to protect the freedom you obviously enjoy, or is it easier to sit around complaining and let the rest of us die for your stupidity ? YES I am also an ex soldier/ If I'd known at the time that I was fighting for this kind of opinion I'd have laid down my weapons and let them in. If only to rid us of our self mede parasites. If you don't like then sodding well leave. You live in free country with free choice .................... the chice to leave is your's sir. Or don't you have the balls to take the consequences of your actions?
Peace

It sounds to me like you're the one doing the winging mate. "Oh, i'm working so hard in my crappy job and can't afford a flat screen TV" - your choice mate. go ahead, pay your taxes, council tax, etc and leave yourself with the crumbs. That's what you're working for so suck it up.

At what does your tax money get spent on? like you have any say in the matter. You people who are so proud to pay your taxes while you winge about unemployed people make me sick. You think soldiers die for our stupidity? that's the most twisted comment I've heard from an ex serviceman. I never asked you to go abroad to help kill innocent people on my behalf so stop pretending you've done us all a favour. That was also your choice mate.

And finally, what freedoms where you defending exactly? democracy perhaps?

This thread is just the best!

Not everyone wants a job, I don't...but I got one anyway. I'd give it away if I could, but my boss would notice if I were replaced by an impostor.

I didn't always have a job, there were times I was unemployed, often long periods of time. I did a lot of agency work mostly in factories. It was often sporadic, they were unpredictable and unreliable. You'd get sent to a site or factory, get there, be told something or other and sent home or shifted elsewhere. Laid off for long periods of time and all that, so I can appreciate how handy jobseekers allowance was.

Last time I claimed was about 5 years ago, they'd made it much tougher, it's not an easy ride as some think. For a start you don't get much, you can't party with it or anything it has to last a fortnight. It's not a fun life by anyones standard, and can get quite depressing. I've found steady employment and am lucky, it's just getting harder to find decent jobs...agencies are a bad thing. I did agency work in a warehouse a few years ago to earn some extra christmas money than never got it. I called them a few times and they were just lying to me and kinda taking the mick so I let 'em keep it - wouldn't degrade myself, I took the hit and kept some dignity and learned from it, they's just baaaaaad.

Anyway...give the guy a break, I ain't ever been homeless but I've been unemployed and it wasn't easy, it was awful. I'd hate to be back there...but to be unemployed now...it's so much harder than it was years ago when I was in that position. It is a kind of slavery, to put someone in a position where they're working for a pittance. I did their stupid 14 week work programs, it's just slavery. I worked awful jobs for my jobseekers allowance, had no choice. You barely earn enough a fortnight to travel to work and back never mind look for a job. Because that's what it's apparently for, not rent, or surviving - it's to help with the costs of looking for work. But you do need it to survive, to travel to where they send you, you're still a human and still need to eat - it's degrading, so I don't resent contributing to a system that I've used in the past, nor do I resent those that use it when they fall on bad timest. I resent those that abuse it, the people who can work but care not to and simply sit back and claim JSA as if it's a god-given right..so I suppose in a way that kinda puts me on the fence...I kinda see both points of the argument.

People always ay "oh, get a job...etc, you lazy so-and-so" and that's all well and good...will they give me a weeks advance right away because I've no food...what's the alternative? If you get a job, in many cases you can wait up to a month before actually getting any money...the government don't support you. I remember getting a job in a shop and needed trousers and shoes to start the job, I'd not a penny...they point blank refused to help. I'm standing in a queue with junkies and delinquents and they're actively blocking my best efforts to find gainful employment.

I'm just lucky I'd plenty of support from family and could rely on them when things got bad, and now they can rely on me. Without that, I can't imagine how hard it could have been. Here's a guy who's been homeless, a lot of homeless people simply resign to that lifestyle, some even become accustomed and actually want to be homeless. This guy's trying to pick himself up and needs support. No matter how many unemployed there are - I'll still pay tax, they'll find some other way to take it. I'd rather my tax money went towards helping this guy than the alcoholics and junkies who seem to get preferrential treatment over people who want to better themselves and just need some support.

I agree there are some severly wrong changes happening to the job seekers allowance !

My dad is now 56 and has been workiing since he was 16 ,
he recently got made redundant from his work due to company changes and cuts and shift changes
he worked his previous job as a port operator at Forth ports dockyard in Grangemouth
he then went to claim job seekers allowance and was told he didnt qualify , despite paying into the tax system since he was 16 !

this united kingdom is a joke , our government are abusing us ,and changing the system to benefit them and to persecute us !

When will enough be enough !

the junkies , the criminal and alcoholics are already taken out of the equation when it comes to making the populace subservient ! they have their vices which keep them down and from being free thinking enemies of the government !

Everyone who has used the benefit system will know what a head f**k it is. Anyone who thinks it's an easy option is misinformed. There are no long term claimants with flat screen TV's living the life of Riley. That's a myth.

The system itself is an industry which was designed to provide middle class incomes to middle class privileged people who would otherwise be unemployed. It was never there to provide help to the less fortunate in our society until it suited the politically correct brigade to do so.

The frontline access to this system is the 'Job Centre' which is staffed by ambitious go getters trying their damnedest to rise out of the bottom section of society. They are trained to bark, fetch and stand on there hind legs and are rewarded with little treats from time to time if they do exactly what they are told. It is this section of society that are the problem really. If everyone who were told to humiliate other human beings for a wage refused to do so then there wouldn't be such a system.

The Job Centre myth:
There are no jobs in the job centre (none that pay wages anyway). I am self employed. I work of an evening so I decided I would try and find casual work during the day to supplement my income. I visited the job centre to see what they had. They handed me a 'new claimant' form to fill in. When I explained to a female JC worker that I didn't want to claim benefits but had come to look for daytime work she had this look of total confusion on her face and didn't know what to do. She had to walk away from the counter to consult another worker. Does that sound like the correct response from someone who is supposed to be there to point you towards finding a job?

And those 'Jobs board' computers? WTF are they all about? anyone who has been claiming benefits for a few months will have looked at those screens at least 7 or 8 times, week after week until they realise they're not real jobs because nothing ever changes on them. My point is, they still pretend there is an ongoing program to help people back into paid work when clearly there isn't. If the general public stopped believing that there is a genuine system in place to help the unemployed then they wouldn't be able to complain about the 'scroungers' When in truth, all that remans is a shrinking capacity of the system to provide help to those that need it. Meanwhile, A4E and those other t***s make loads of money by dreaming up more and more imaginative ways to humiliate the unemployed. All this is done with the support of the goverment cronies who fall in line with... (but thats another story)

The rest of the taxpaying public are brainwashed into being bitter because they think the unemployed are getting a free ride. They moan about paying taxes while outwardly being proud for doing so and that somehow they have the moral high ground because they pay their bills. As long as we're bleating at each other the architects of such a twisted machine slip quietly back and forth to the bank unoticed.

I've worked with a few people over the years who drank on the job.

I know people who got caught, drinking or doing drugs - if they are caught all they have to do is say they've got an addiction - validated. So you end up working in often a dangerous environment with drunken or drugged up idiots. I've seen this happen many times, I've even heard people advise those that have been caught - just say you've got an addiction and they have to support you...talk about playing the system.

Complete disregard for the safety and welfare of not only themselves but the people they work with.

to add, when I did my agency work - the agencies pretty much took on anyone, turnover n staff was unbelievable. New faces every day, and they didn't care who they employed. There were guys who got to leave early because they'd to consume methodone...no joke. They were allowed away early and in some cases still being paid...to go and consume junk. They were still doing drugs...and if they were caught doing drugs or came to work wasted they were treated with kid gloves...nobody wants to deny the junkies and alkies their rights...it's pathetic. It''s all upside down, a system that rewards junkies and criminals and beats down the people who are simply trying to get on and build a decent life.

reply to post by theruthlessone


mate this really boils my blood ! especially starbucks !

who recently claimed a loss in the UK despite making something like 27million and because they claimed a profit loss they only paid something 275K in tax !

plus they waste over 1billion gallons of water daily due to some policy in the company that doesnt allow taps to stop running for fear of bacteria build up !

I mean really , who are these criminals in the shiny corporate logos !
and drone staff in the hives who are non the wiser and just working a 9-5

these corporations are the ones who need to be controlled , this would fix the money loss in the UK
its all tied in though the corporations are in bed with the banks and the politicians are in bed with them all!

I really thought there would be a crack down of corporations this year with rangers being the first private entity to take a hit from the taxman for tax evasion! but no eve they managed to strike a deal!

we need a government that isnt in bed with the criminals !
root cause analysis , corporatocracy is taking control along with the banking elite!
and the crooks in westminster

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Just stop and think for a moment..

Employers now have a free reign to treat their workers badly. Its not going to take employers long to realize that they can hold their workers hostage because of these new rules!

Lets say you get a job with decent wages that allows you to be able to drive to work each day because its some distance away. Now lets say that your employer after a couple of months decided to drop your wages to minimum pay and you can no longer afford to drive to work. You wont be able to quit your job because of the new rules!

I have a feeling that these new rules are just part 1 of a larger plan that is going to totally screw over the job seekers and workers in this country so that the richer can keep getting rich. So all you people who think "well stop being lazy and get a job!" should realize that these new rules are going to effect you as well. Your wages could be dropped because of these new rules and you wont be able to leave your job because there will be no support while you look for a new one. Believe me good jobs are hard to find these days.

So you loose your decent job and go to job seekers for help while you look for another, they force you to apply for a job that is minimum wage, you get the job and you can no longer afford the payments on your house or car. You are not allowed to refuse the job and you are not allowed to quit once you get it!!!

So everyone who currently has a job think twice before backing this set of new rules because you think everyone who hasnt got a job is just lazy. No one has a job for life these days and you could find yourself in a terrible position in the future because you believe the governments BS that this is good for the country and all jobless people are delinquent bums.

edit on 22-10-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

My most recent job was working in a very busy petrol station. I had to stand alone behind a till for 9 hours straight without a break or a chair to sit on, my boss tried to run his garages for as cheap as possible so hired minimal staff, the garages are busy and should be staffed by two people at all times. If people filled their tanks and drove off, the staff had to pay for it out of their wages. I also had to work 7 days a week some weeks, as he wouldn't hire more staff to help out, and if you refused to do the extra hours, he would tell you to leave.

Basicly he had you by the balls, and if you wanted a job you had to do what he says, and in the end i refused to work for a 9th day in a row because i needed a day off, he told me not to come in at all.

Long time lurker, First time poster.

I just thought I would add how the agencies take advantage of the workforce.

I'm a time served Painter & Decorator, now aged 42.
Back in the day you could go to any site, and as long as you were capable of the job you could work on it. Obviously you'd need hard hat, steelies etc.

Nowadays you need a CSCS card (£30 for cert, extra £50 for photo version) Government cronies scam.
With the economy being in the state it is at the moment all the contracts of works are won by major companies like carillion which then sub it out to smaller companies (they obviously take their cut). The smaller company because they only have a limited number of staff full time then use agencies to supplement the work force to get the contract completed.

The agency (in my trade) charge the company approx £14 per hour for my labour. They then pay me approx £10 per hour. (This is variable depending on contract).
To get paid you have to sign up to a payment company (Construction Payment Service?) and also notify the tax office that you will be working on site. The payment company take £18-25 a week off you for this service. The agency also takes their weekly cut from you too (£18-22) for the privilege of them of taking a third of your pay anyway.
If your lucky you'll take home £300 for a 42hr week after paying your tax.

The point I'm trying to make is everybody wants a cut of your labour. The government and it's cronies get backhanders for the contracts and you get screwed.

On most sites I've been on over the last couple of years agency staff turn up Poles mostly with no tools, no skill, balls the job up and it has to be put right by someone like me. The agency don't care as they get paid anyway, the idiot gets a days work and the small sub company gets screwed. If your good at your job you get to stay on till the contract ends, otherwise the sub company has an idiot a day until they get sent someone good at their job.

This is the same when you sign on.

The back to work scheme's that they force you to go on are paid £50 per person per week to help you update your CV, apply for jobs. They pay the advisers £25000+ to "HELP" you do this. (Another government scam). These services are tendered out on a yearly basis to the lowest bidder, they have to reach "TARGETS" to get you back in employment.
This gives them the incentive to get as many people into "EMPLOYMENT" (off the books in reality) or they lose the contract for next year.
You get shipped out for slave labour to Tesco, they get free labour, back to work scheme gets you off the books, everybody gets paid a fair wage except you... Genius..