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posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 05:21 AM
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Specifically followers of the Abrahamic religions. I wanted to ask you something. We all know God knows everything that will happen and has happened. We also know that our destiny is already made for us. So let me ask you, if I am atheist, or am polytheistic, or I go against God's books, is it my fault? Why should I go to hell for something which has already been destined for me?




posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by RimDaas
Specifically followers of the Abrahamic religions. I wanted to ask you something. We all know God knows everything that will happen and has happened. We also know that our destiny is already made for us. So let me ask you, if I am atheist, or am polytheistic, or I go against God's books, is it my fault? Why should I go to hell for something which has already been destined for me?


Two word answer: Free will.

Long answer: Don't bring logic to a religious fight. You will lose, even if you don't understand why, how and that you did so.

My answer: Of 7.000.000.000 people on earth there are only about 1.400.000.000 people of Abrahamic faith. The others are obviously heathens and must therefore burn in that hot place. Even if they have never heard about the right church. Or some catholic priest used his sodomitic instincts on them. Even then, they are doomed.

Obviously, religion is stupid.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 05:28 AM
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reply to post by RimDaas
 

you don't decide wether you go to heaven or hell. it is the circumstances and influences, which make your character. the rest is luck or bad luck.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by RimDaas
Why should I go to hell for something which has already been destined for me?

You still have a choice.

Its up to you to decide your destiny or final destination.

Jesus and His followers will reside on this planet when He returns on Judgement Day.

Everyone who chooses not to have faith in Jesus Christ will be forcefully removed and sent to Sheol (Hell).



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 05:58 AM
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This forum is not for the general discussion of religious topics.

(From directly above)


Not trying to bust chops, just seems the mods are rather picky. Honestly I could care less. Just trying to warn you.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 06:01 AM
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Originally posted by Rapha

Everyone who chooses not to have faith in Jesus Christ will be forcefully removed and sent to Sheol (Hell).


Sounds so very.......Jesus-like. Why should people have to suffer because Jesus left so little evidence of his or gods existence? Just seems so....... un-Christian



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 06:02 AM
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reply to post by RimDaas
 


LOL - you are in hell my friend, just take a look around.

When your soul matures to pure love, it will stop being recycled to this God forsaken planet and you will then be in heaven. I believe that this is what Christ taught.

This is the secret the False Religions and False Church's wish to keep from you.

edit on 22-10-2012 by Sublimecraft because: grammar corrections



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 06:11 AM
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reply to post by Sublimecraft
 


So your theory is that we are reincarnated over and over again until we reach a state of pure love, and then we go to heaven?

If so, I think I like that idea. It sounds so much more.......Jesus-like



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by Renegade2283
Sounds so very.......Jesus-like. Why should people have to suffer because Jesus left so little evidence of his or gods existence? Just seems so....... un-Christian

Like i said, this athiest has a choice.

Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

One master is YHWH. The other master is the beast.

We have all fallen from Heavens grace. No mortal is perfect or squeeky clean.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

"little evidence". Is that a joke?
The world is going to war where athiests are obeying Albert Pike's vision of a war between Islam and Christianity.
Everyone hates Christians which Jesus said would happen.
New age religeons are appearing everywhere now, even on ATS.
Everyone hates Jews as prooven with Auschwitz.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by Rapha
Everyone hates Christians which Jesus said would happen.



The majority of Americans (73%) identify themselves as Christians and about 20% have no religious affiliation.


www.pewforum.org...

Really? Do a lot of Christians hate themselves or something?



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 06:36 AM
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ong answer: Don't bring logic to a religious fight. You will lose, even if you don't understand why, how and that you did so.


pff logic is for suckers lol



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by Rapha

Originally posted by RimDaas
Why should I go to hell for something which has already been destined for me?

You still have a choice.

Its up to you to decide your destiny or final destination.

Jesus and His followers will reside on this planet when He returns on Judgement Day.

Everyone who chooses not to have faith in Jesus Christ will be forcefully removed and sent to Sheol (Hell).


Wait but isn't my destiny foreplanned? What can I do about it. How do I change the destiny planned by the creator of this universe?



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by RimDaas
 

What ... so if you know something is going to happen then you caused it...
...some pretty strange assumptions bro.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by RimDaas
Specifically followers of the Abrahamic religions. I wanted to ask you something. We all know God knows everything that will happen and has happened. We also know that our destiny is already made for us. So let me ask you, if I am atheist, or am polytheistic, or I go against God's books, is it my fault? Why should I go to hell for something which has already been destined for me?


You obviously understand the thing that saves you because you are attempting to debate that very thing.

So your whole argument is simple arrogance - not ignorance.

I would like for you to introduce me to the one person on this planet that has not heard the name "Jesus Christ". Please introduce me to that person whenever you meet them.

Remember - if someone says they met people that did not know who Jesus Christ was, that means they had to reveal His name in order to ask that same people - thereby removing ignorance from that same people.

As well, Jesus Christ has revealed Himself before to people without the aid of other people. So your judgment is once again not based on ignorance; but arrogance and also a lack of understanding or imagination.

But allow me also to help those who might be those things which you are describing - the atheist, the polytheist, and those who do not believe in the Holy Bible.

If you are atheist and you think you have a problem with God; you do not. Your problem is with people and their contrary words and their ways. But you also have the same problem yourself - that you say one thing and try to teach it though you know in your heart that what you have just said is utterly wrong. You know it, you feel it, and yet you still push it because you think to yourself, "What I said is logical. I am just crazy for having other feelings. Why does this craziness enter my brain?" You will not be warned forever. If you continue to fight out of your ignorance and arrogance something which has been given to you, then you will be left to your delusion.

If you are polytheist - I do not know how to help you. You know that you worship dead things. If you do not worship the Beginning and the End, then you are not worshiping the true God. If you do not believe in His Son, His manifestation, Jesus Christ, then you have evil in your heart. Only those who wish to hide from their sins and death are those who have a problem listening to someone that reveals their mistakes; and yet also, He doesn't just expose us but He SAVES us. This is a problem for those who are evil minded because people hate facing the fact that they are, in fact, mortal. So focusing on someone who reminds them of their own mortality is too much to handle also. Polytheists believe what they believe because they want to live in their own "magical world" where they are invulnerable. It is a child's game. But Jesus Christ understands and wants to help you. God loves everyone and understands the pain and the suffering - so give yourself to the true God and you will see that your prayers will no longer be in vain.

If you do not believe in the Holy Bible, then believe in the love that HE shares with you. It is easy for us to be distracted and worrisome that people have modified or changed something - a thing of which many will attempt to convince you. Even then, can you not believe in one part that obviously is not changed? That Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was sent by our heavenly Father to save us and be our God? This is something that no evil or selfish person would have been allowed to manipulate or change and it would have done them no good to leave this thing this way - and it certainly would not have done them any good to change it! So therefore it is there for you to understand. If you have a problem with doctrine and understanding, then maybe God has not given it to you specifically to do anything more than to believe in and obey Jesus Christ and to love in the manner which we should. If you do not want to focus on mortality, then do not. Salvation is belief in Jesus Christ that He died for us that we might be saved from our sins and then obedience to Him because He is become our King.

If you are not willing to do something as simple as be obedient to an All-powerful being, then you are rebellious beyond belief for me. Rebellion is a 3-year old child stomping his feet because he does not want to eat food which is good for him. It's an extremely ugly picture and no one respects or finds humor in that little boy.

So while you all are understood and true believers in the Lord Jesus Christ understand your frustration with self-proclaimed Christians (which is not the same as frustration with God). We have the same frustrations.

And I, myself, am not perfect at ALL. Do not allow your guilt and your imperfections to keep you from God because only HE receives us as we are able to be - if we could be 100% perfect without Him, He would not have sent His Son Jesus Christ.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by Renegade2283

Originally posted by Rapha
Everyone hates Christians which Jesus said would happen.



The majority of Americans (73%) identify themselves as Christians and about 20% have no religious affiliation.


www.pewforum.org...

Really? Do a lot of Christians hate themselves or something?


Those numbers include many "versions" of Christianity that are not Christian. As well, just because someone claims His name, it does not mean that they are of Him.

True believers in the Lord Jesus Christ know WELL that we are actually a minority in this country compared to those who are self-proclaimed - by far.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 06:51 AM
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i guess what is frustrating to me(besides arguing with a christian about god) is trying to explain how religion works to non-religious people!
let me break it down why you are going to hell.
satan told eve to eat from the tree of life,then she would be like god and see good and evil.
she talked adam into eating from the tree as well,even though god told them both,they can take anything from the garden EXCEPT the fruit from the tree of life.
well,leave it to a chick to screw things up (just kidding ladies! this is not my belief!)
after their 'snack',they both could see good and evil,saw themselves naked and got embarassed,and donned some fig leaves to cover up.
then god come strutting by,and asked whats up with the fig leaves,and they fessed up,telling god they ate from the tree of life,and they could see good and evil.
well god got all pissy and kicked them out of the garden,and blocked the entrance with a flaming sword.
this whole episode is called original sin.
now,thanx to eve,woman would feel the pains of child birth(and men would feel the pain of being with a chick who was pregnant!!!
still kidding ladies!)
and everybody born would be born into original sin.
your only salvation is to let jesus christ into your heart,so you can be born again.this is the only way to get to heavan.
where i start asking questions (specially to christians) is how did people get to heavan before jesus showed
up?!!!
do they have to rot in the ground until the rapture???
well,anyway,thats why your going to hell!
don't get me wrong. i love the book of genesis.it is a true magikal grimmoir.
it is full of kabbalistic,and symbolic imagery. and if any one out there practices gematria,there is a wealth of knowledge to be gained from this book!
the first few paragraphs basically explains the big bang theory!
don't let the christians fool you with their version of the garden of eden!
the whole bible is full of wisdom,if you know how to study it!
the book of job is another book that christians have a hard time explaining!
for me,i just wish they would add back all the other books of the bible they left out,because those books didn't 'fit' into the end result the romans wanted!
peace



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by Renegade2283
Really? Do a lot of Christians hate themselves or something?

Somehow i detect a nit-picking troll.

A lot of Christians are either lukewarm or liars.

A lot of the US military say they are Christian yet they all have blood on their hands.

Many Christians only love money and will therefore not be written into the Book of Life.

Note: all trolls will one day fall off the bridge into the river Styx so the conclusion to the OPs question is he/she still has a choice.

If you have ever read any NDE stories of people going to Sheol, you will notice that many times, when the NDEr sees someone in Sheol, that sinner always wishes they could have a second chance and return to this world before the day they died. That says everything. If you have ever experienced hell, you would already be a firm follower of Yeshua.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 07:00 AM
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There is a biblical answer that those from the Christian wing of the Abrahamic faiths believe, its supported in the Old Testament ( The Jewish part) as well.
If you are keen to know read the Book of Ephesians (its in the bible). Thats straight from the horses mouth, no wishy washy atheist, cultic interpretations.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 07:06 AM
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reply to post by RimDaas
 




Wait but isn't my destiny foreplanned?


No. There's a difference between foreknowledge and foreplanned.

The only thing that was foreplanned was your existence. Just because God has foreknowledge of YOUR free will to choose doesn't mean he planned it. You did.

There's a difference between predetermination and predestination. The first is chosen for you. The latter is chosen by you, even if God already knows which way you're going to choose. God predetermined your existence and let's you choose your own destiny.

It was not God's plan to force people to follow him. He allows you to make that choice.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by reficul
i guess what is frustrating to me(besides arguing with a christian about god) is trying to explain how religion works to non-religious people!
let me break it down why you are going to hell.
satan told eve to eat from the tree of life,then she would be like god and see good and evil.
she talked adam into eating from the tree as well,even though god told them both,they can take anything from the garden EXCEPT the fruit from the tree of life.
well,leave it to a chick to screw things up (just kidding ladies! this is not my belief!)
after their 'snack',they both could see good and evil,saw themselves naked and got embarassed,and donned some fig leaves to cover up.
then god come strutting by,and asked whats up with the fig leaves,and they fessed up,telling god they ate from the tree of life,and they could see good and evil.
well god got all pissy and kicked them out of the garden,and blocked the entrance with a flaming sword.
this whole episode is called original sin.
now,thanx to eve,woman would feel the pains of child birth(and men would feel the pain of being with a chick who was pregnant!!!
still kidding ladies!)
and everybody born would be born into original sin.
your only salvation is to let jesus christ into your heart,so you can be born again.this is the only way to get to heavan.
where i start asking questions (specially to christians) is how did people get to heavan before jesus showed
up?!!!
do they have to rot in the ground until the rapture???
well,anyway,thats why your going to hell!
don't get me wrong. i love the book of genesis.it is a true magikal grimmoir.
it is full of kabbalistic,and symbolic imagery. and if any one out there practices gematria,there is a wealth of knowledge to be gained from this book!
the first few paragraphs basically explains the big bang theory!
don't let the christians fool you with their version of the garden of eden!
the whole bible is full of wisdom,if you know how to study it!
the book of job is another book that christians have a hard time explaining!
for me,i just wish they would add back all the other books of the bible they left out,because those books didn't 'fit' into the end result the romans wanted!
peace



The Lord rebuke you, Satan.





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