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He's useless because he ISN'T HERE, unlike the plethora of people consistently misinterpreting, misrepresenting, or misleading followers into thinking, "Hey, we need to judge this group over here," or "hey, we were promised this so we'll sit here and do nothing while the world burns." He isn't here to correct anyone, and so we try to correct people instead, but no one listens because we're not him and they say, "If he has a problem, he can fix it when he comes," but they're the ones who think he'll come and we're just left scratching our heads because you can't argue with an idiot!
When Jesus gets here, he becomes relevant. But until then, WE are here, and so this world is OUR problem. Now, how do we plan to fix it? Any ideas?
So it's no use even discussing it. Why preach to a brick wall?
I get the impression that you think the "brick wall" is made up of the Christians.
Do you really think it's the non-Christians who want to CHANGE things? Do you think it's the majority of non-Christians who are setting the best example for people to live by? What reason do non-Christians have for setting the moral goal posts on this earth in order to turn it all around? Until the moral goal posts are set, nothing changes.
If it doesn't start with morals and principles, where does it start?
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Deetermined
I think you're missing the point here. There's this attitude thing going on. And I don't give a rat's dead corpse what Jesus said, the point is what's being done about it TODAY. It doesn't matter what's said, it's how people USE what's said.
Do you really think it's the non-Christians who want to CHANGE things?
Do you think it's the majority of non-Christians who are setting the best example for people to live by?
Originally posted by Snsoc
1.) Having Leadership that Loves Money
No minister wants to turn people off, because that would mean the cash stops rolling in. And the God business is a good one. Churches enjoy tax-exempt status AND they strongly encourage tithing (giving 10%) AND most of what gets donated does not make it to the poor or the lost. There’s a reason the pastor has a nicer house and car than most of his flock. The money is just flowing in.
Contrast this with Jesus, who:
Paid taxes (Matthew 17:14-27)
Encouraged others to pay their taxes (Matthew 22:15-21, Mark 12:17)
Didn’t even have a house (Matthew 8:20, Luke 9:58)
Commanded church leaders to NOT be lovers of money (1 Timothy 3:3)
Preached against wealth (Matthew 6:19, Mark 10:21, Luke 16:19-31)
Instructed that people should make up their own minds how much to give. (2 Corinthians 9:7)
I cannot overstress the significance of that last one. Tithing is an Old Covenant principle. It is the Old Law, and the New Testament is quite clear that we are not supposed to follow it, and that we are under a curse if we do. (Galatians 3:10) The New Testament mentions at least 38 times that we do not follow the Old Covenant. Yet go to any church for a few months and the pastor will have a series on “Biblical giving,” and by that he means “tithing.”
Think what would happen if every Christian sold what he or she had that was unnecessary and gave it to the poor? What if they were on their faces in church every Sunday, repenting for their lust, their anger, their hate and their pride? What if they stood up to Republicans and right-wingers and said, “No more money, no more votes. You’re through.” What if they quit every mega-church and met in simple, sparsely-decorated buildings? What if every minister had to get a day job, just like the Apostle Paul? What if Christians were known not for what they were against, but for having the answers for the lost when they finally had enough of their sin and came to church to see what it was all about? And when they did, what if they were greeted with open arms of love by people who knew that they themselves were sinners?
Well, we’d probably have something like what Jesus intended, wouldn’t we?
edit on 21-10-2012 by Snsoc because: (no reason given)
And you know why, Dee???? Because you were one of those "Christians" who wrote here on ATS: IT WILL NEVER CHANGE.
And I challenged you on it, saying, "That's right..Because there are people who say it will never change."
They say that, and then they wash their hands of it, and walk away, convinced that there's no reason to TRY to change things.
All I ask is that people reflect on the last 2,000 years and contemplate on why we haven't progressed any more than we have as a people during that time....and think realistically about it. That's all.