Five Things Christians Need to Stop Doing

reply to post by jmdewey60

That, I hope, is not what is supposed to represent "our shared values"

It pretty much does though.

"Israel and the United States are part of the great fellowship of democracies who speak the same language of freedom and justice, and the right of every person to live in peace. "

The shared language is the language of duplicity. Empty hollow words used only because they sound good and proper, yet the actual deeds of the word speakers empty the words of actual meaning.

Originally posted by PvtHudson
Why don't you apply any of these standards to Democrats?

Are the democrats running around preaching Christian this and Christian that like members of the GOP are doing?

reply to post by LittleByLittle

Maybe your view of society but not mine. I do not care if the religion called Christianety dies out totaly and is replaced by only Jesus teaching in nondualistic comments on the side for the people who cannot understand symbolism.

Preaching in parables was how Jesus prevented his enemies from gaining understanding and recieving salvation, namely the pharisees and sadducees. The word "christian" means "little christ" or "christlike" and while christendom wrecked the faith with their misrepresentation of God and persecution of the jews they should have been showing the light of Christ too, the light still finds a way to shine through the darkness so forgive and be merciful and let Jesus deal with his wayward sheep.

I just want to drop in and say kudos for starting off saying "I am a terrible Christian." I skimmed your post, and while I don't agree with all of your points in their entirety (for instance, while I think the early Christians placed a lot of emphasis on privatecharity, I wouldn't go so far as to describe them socialists, which usually involves state-sponsored means) I think you've got some good points.
It's hard not to respect someone who is willing to admit he or she doesn't have it all together, and you did that.

One of the best books you can possibly read is "When bad Christians happen to good people". It's not anti-Christian at all, and is written by a pastor. He cites himself as the worst Christian in may ways and addresses ways we all behave in ways that aren't examples of what we say we believe.

It really is a very, very good book and can really open your eyes to your own behavior as a Christian.

Here's the amazon page for it: www.amazon.com...

This is the introduction/disclaimer that he begins with:

I must begin with some words of disclosure. I am a hypocrite. I can be arrogant and selfish. I have been known to stretch, conceal, or slightly massage the truth. I am sometimes inconsiderate and insecure. I struggle with lust and impure thoughts. My ego often rages out of control, and I battle foolish pride. I can be lazy and foolhardy with my time. I get angry, petty, and ill-tempered. I am sarcastic and cynical.


I am a Christian.

These are reasons I stopped going to church, ( Well, except #1, I don't care who votes for who ), I also got VERY sick of someone who, only as a result of preaching, dresses better than me, drives a nicer car than me, lives in a better house than me, whose kids will never worry about going hungry or being able to afford a good education, telling ME I am going to Hell because I do not give enough.

This is what Church is like around here. Quite simply, the more money someone puts in the collection plate, the better they are treated.

"Where is the compassion for the sinner? Where is the Christian who weeps and agonizes for the lost? Where is the man or woman who has deep affection for his or her enemies and cries out to God daily that everyone he meets would be saved?" HERE. I stopped reading when you said he paid taxes because he did NOT pay taxes.

Good post by the OP.

I'd be willing to bet that there is no religion on earth that has not to a great extent become infested with time servers and feather bedders. It just seems to be the nature of things among human beings that whenever a nexus of power organizes itself, no matter how small, someone will try to take control of it and use it for another purpose than the one that caused it to come into existence in the first place.

I am a Buddhist myself and have lived in a meditation center for many years. I became a Buddhist because back in the 1970s I believed that our culture in the West, our specifically Christian culture, had become spiritually bankrupt. I could see good Christians around me, but they seemed to be navigating on faith alone, which to me at the time, was the equivalent of driving on fumes.

I wanted something radical, in the 1960s sense of the term, something that went to the root of spirituality and was built up from the basics, in an existential way. I was anti-authoritarian and anti-faith.

The Buddha's teaching was made for me. Essentially he was saying, "Here is what I did. Try it yourself and you be the judge if it is the correct path."

I did try it and became convinced that it is the correct path, but in doing so I also became aware of the social dynamics of Buddhism and how these social dynamics are no different in Buddhism than they are in any other religion.

All religions are prey to characteristics of human beings that are anything but admirable. All religions, as social organizations, assimilate these characteristics into themselves. There is no escape from this. No religion is immune to this disease, not even the most deconstructionist religion ever invented, Buddhism.

The individual alone can insure that he or she adheres to the core values of any given religion. Fellowship has many uses, chief among them comfort, but the onus of religious practice is always on the individual.

In Christianity it is you who will be judged by God, not your congregation that will defend a class action suit.

You mention that you yourself are a Christian. Your list also implies that your points are characteristics among Christians in general. I have noticed that those issues are the core characteristics of what is said to only be the minority, a group that I never, ever see the opposite of. Would you personally say that there is indeed no minority, and that your points are truly epidemic across all of Christianity's followers? I'm just curious.

These are some of the characteristics of some of the most vocal parts of the body of Christ-the parts that get noticed in the media, and that unsaved people respond to with negativity. Now that America is saturated with the Gospel, we've switched footing. Everywhere I go, everything I read or listen to seems to say: God wants you rich, he wants you to fight sin in your community, and he wants you to support the war. (Not an exact quote, but that's pretty much the gist of it.) If there is an opposition to this, it's awfully quiet. Maybe the Quakers or the Amish think like that, but part of being thoughtful and nuanced is that you're usually not loud about it (except, you know, my original post.)

If it's not the majority, then Christians should be ticked off at the vocal minority, who is giving very bad PR in their name. If the majority meets a lot of resistance when they invite their friends to church, maybe that's why

Dunno what Jesus you believe in but my Jesus died to forgive all sins once and for all except one, to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Nowhere in the bible does Jesus say or even hint he will take your salvation away, in fact he goes out of his way to state he will never leave or forsake you. Not just that but he also says there are none whom can take you out of his hand, that means not even you yourself have the power to take yourself from his hand. He desires mercy not sacrifice.[/quoted]


Man, I hope so, because I read stuff like Hebrews 6:4-8 and 10:26-31 and it sounds like you can lose it. I'm aware of the verses you are talking about, but there are others that seem to have a different doctrine. There must be a way to reconcile the two.

edit on 22-10-2012 by Snsoc because: improper formatting

reply to post by Snsoc


Once you have salvation you can't lose it. The second covenant was given as a gift, not in the way men give gifts who take away when you are undeserving. Remember mercy triumphs over judgement from the Epistle of James, so always be merciful to others and God will be merciful to you. Read Matthew 12:1-8. Remember when Jesus was here the only people he condemned to not have salvation were the pharisees, because of their lack of mercy and hypocrisy and their white washed ways to the point he said whores and tax collectors would get into to heaven before the pharisees would. He knows were broken and can do nothing without him, just trust him he won't fail you.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Dunno what Jesus you believe in but my Jesus died to forgive all sins once and for all except one, to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Nowhere in the bible does Jesus say or even hint he will take your salvation away, in fact he goes out of his way to state he will never leave or forsake you. Not just that but he also says there are none whom can take you out of his hand, that means not even you yourself have the power to take yourself from his hand.

Jesus was addressing a mixed multitude which included those who did not believe in him, and his enemies. What seems as a given to us today was not back then, that Jesus had received from God all power and authority to save us. He had to convince them who had never previously had to try to grasp that concept, so he was using descriptive, graphical terms to explain it.
From our point of view, already accepting his virtual god status, it is easy to project onto his saying to expand it a step further than was his intent at the time, into some philosophy of the permanence of our abiding in Jesus even when we rebel against him and the spirit of Christ that is his gift to us to overcome sin.

Well said.

I agree for the most part. The only thing I take any issue with, and not negatively, is the "confrontation of the sin".
I think it is a positive that churches don't kick out adulterers,for example, because I believe that neither the church, nor the government, have any place in our bedrooms.

But other than that...

I myself, am an atheist, but if every Christian (and okay, atheist... and everyone else) were as thoughful and as willing to live and let live, the world would be a far better place.

reply to post by borntowatch

Its like saying its a car though it has four legs, a tail and eats hay.

uh...

www.auto-power-girl.com...

I agree with all except 4 & 5. Number 1 is really a problem reaching epidemic proportions among every faith.

reply to post by Snsoc


Response #5
I couldn't agree more, all Christians should vote Libertarian. Christ broke the bondage and gave us freedom, why not enjoy that to the fullest and break the bondage of the two party system. Both sides are corrupt, and only want more power, more control, and more money.

#4
Again I agree, but it's not just Christians. What about smoking laws? Sure I bet there is Christian influence, but here in California I see more and more liberals legislating their own morality.

#3 and #2
These are a failure of church leadership. Christianity over the past 40 to 50 years [and during obvious times in the past] has been watered down to a feel good self-help positive message on Sunday mornings. If people really read the Bible and studied what Christ said then they would be humble, and love all people. Loving people does not mean promoting sin btw, but love must be used in all situations.

#1
This is just a failure plain and simple. However churches are non-profit and require a pretty large budget. I've worked in two small churches [between 40 to 80 people] and each had a budget of about 150k to 250k. When you only have 50+ people, it takes a lot of asking for money. Besides the Bible says we should give 10% of our income back to God, and most people don't do this, just like #2 and #3.
Those pastors you see on TV though, are quite money hungry. Any pastor that lives in a mansion should probably check his intentions.

reply to post by AnonymousMoose

Those pastors you see on TV though, are quite money hungry. Any pastor that lives in a mansion should probably check his intentions.

Those preachers you see on tv living in mansions are more than likely psuedos. The first few generations of christians lived in communal settings, they shared everything with eachother even their income and they would meet up every morning for prayer before leaving to minister and return at midday to eat together, they were just like a closely knit family. You rarely see that today. I can tell you one thing, Jesus ain't a democract or a republican, he's the King of kings and the government will be on his shoulders.

Originally posted by PvtHudson
Why don't you apply any of these standards to Democrats?

That's not how rhetoric works, that's why. It's always the other guy's fault completely.

reply to post by PvtHudson


Because Democrats don't feel the need to curb behavior for the sake of tradition.

Originally posted by buster2010

He is right though if Jesus did appear and start preaching what he did back then the GOP would brand him a socialist. Christians only use their faith when it's to their advantage.

You must have missed this Bible verse that the O.P. cited:

Instructed that people should make up their own minds how much to give. (2 Corinthians 9:7)

Jesus encouraged people to do this on their own without forcing them to do it.

I think the GOP has made it clear that this is something that the government shouldn't force upon the people in the way of taxes. It's about limiting government involvement in such things.