Children to be taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' in Australian schools project

Originally posted by AussieDingus
Due to what others have told me,I would consider myself as a reasonable person, but I think these anti-bullying programs are nothing more than a knee jerk reaction so that politicians and the media can say that they have addressed the issue. And as a reasonable person, I know enough to know that usually the "bullies" have domestic or internal problems of their own and use bullying as a form of blocking out their own problems. Rather then addressing the bullying side of it, we should be focusing on why so many peole that are "bullies" seem to have these domestic and/or internal problems. More often than not, "bullies" tend to come from broken homes, where there is a lack of care, love and education.

Thats what I think. The government can organise as many programs as they want, but when it comes down to it, the bullies have to go back to that negative, non-caring, abusive, even spoilt world and that is the issue. I understand there is nothing wrong with bringing the issue to the spotlight, but I also think its a dead end unless the initial source of the problem is addressed. It starts with their lifestyles.

We can come up with the cure for bullying, but isn't it better to focus on the prevention of bullies becoming bullies in the first place. And another reasonable person once told me that 'prevention is better than cure' !

Some things cannot be prevented and this is one of those issues unless people start interfering in peoples personal lives.

I actually remember reading in the Daily Telegraph [Australian hack newspaper], an article saying that bullying was actually good for building up the character of those being bullied. The article specifically used the example of red heads being called "ranga's" and how most red heads surveyed had strong character and used the bullying they had recieved as the reason for such a strong character.

Some may, but as the likes of Phage and a couple of others have pointed out, there is an issue about homophobic abuse and even kids who are not homophobic are not taking it very well when it is directed at them. There is a problem, kids are thinking and committing suicide so it does need to be addressed one way or the other.

This article was from about 18 months ago, yet the same newspaper will now have front page stories on bullying. But i guess the point they were making with red heads was that its only bullying if you allow it to get to you, but if you can turn that bullying into building your own confidence and character, then is it really bullying if you don't allow it to affect you negatively ?

Some people can use it to their advantage. Others cant. Its the same as getting to the initial problem of bullying. You can create all the programs you want, you will not stop bullying.. Some kids may use bullying to their advantage, others will become depressed and commit suicide if it affects them bad.

You could use cancer as an example. Some people are diagnosed and beat it. Others aren't so lucky.

Darkstormy, after going through this thread I believe my opinion may of changed. It may be better for gay kids to get information from a third party such as the internet because I feel if the issue was brought into the spotlight in schools it would be a topic on more kids mind opening it up as a topic for more ridicule and more possible bullying . Perhaps the government wants to make it seem llike it is taking action but in reality there wouldn't be much follow up and bullying would be instigated more or remain at the same level.

Perhaps it is an issue that isn't appropriate to be discussed around children, if kids are struggling they should talk to a neutral party and get the right info privately.

I know we had an anti bullying week in my school that wasn't much help, I guess bullying is something that most students will deal with but unfortunately gay kids can't just grow out of it.

Also throughout this thread I've perhaps been too sensative, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
What are your thoughts?

Originally posted by vendettent
Perhaps it is an issue that isn't appropriate to be discussed around children, if kids are struggling they should talk to a neutral party and get the right info privately.

I think the ones who are bullied should be entitled to get advice from anyone... The ones doing the bullying need to be taught its unacceptable and if it comes down to it, singled out themselves. But while that may fix a few incidents, its still not fixing the issue overall.

As for the bully week at school etc, I never had that sort of stuff when I was at school. Some kids may take note, others wont. Its just the way kids are and also brought up. I think it comes more down to the lifestyles at home, but is it worth invading peoples privacy to get rid of the issue?

The government can jabber om all the want. I even seen a "homophobic bullying at work advert" for the first time tonight. Will that work? Of course not.. people will see that and mock it to the cows come home just because they can.

About the thread, I may of been a bit misled by the concept also. But this is my take. When it comes to bullying, zero tolerance. As for the other stuff, I'm not homophobic, I am a parent and any parent has the right to question what there children are being taught.

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Originally posted by AussieDingus


Some things cannot be prevented and this is one of those issues unless people start interfering in peoples personal lives.




You could use cancer as an example. Some people are diagnosed and beat it. Others aren't so lucky.

edit on 26-10-2012 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)

All things can be prevented to a point where its only a minor event at worst, compared to having to start programs to counter the growing problem. And if a large number of bullies come from broken homes and lifestyles, then there should be every right to interfere in their private lives, because the outcome of their private lives is affecting other peoples lives, so any claim of privacy goes out the window when you start affecting other peoples privacy. A large part of the problem is that everyone today thinks they have the right to have a child, and then bring a child into this world without the proper love and care. But when that love and care isn't there, we end up with more and more bullies, and more and more need for bullying programs and media attention. But if we address the first real issue, its people with the mentality that they have the right to have a child. But having a child is not a right, its a privilage, and if people can't meet some sort of basic minimum requirement then they should not be allowed to bring a child into this world, regardless of what the civil rights advocates will say. If we address that issue, knowing that many, if not most bullies come from these environments, then you have to address the enviroment that leads to this.

Most people on this site will acknowledge that society today needs a major overhaul, yet for that to happen we have to start taking steps that would lead to that overhaul. And if we look at it from the bigger picture point of view, then yes there will be some people unhappy that they didn't meet the basic minimum requirements and can't have a child, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and in the long run society as a whole will be better off for it. But if we continue on the way we are, we will only get more bullies, and we will only get more knee jerk bullying programs. The bullying programs are nothing more than a version of the terroist act, its a piece of paper that will never stop a terrorist, or a bully. But for some reason, we all feel safer inside knowing its there, but are we really any safer ?????

And yes, I could of used cancer as an example. But if you look close enough at the cancer cases you may be refering to, you'll probably find that those who "beat" their cancer may of had an early diagnoses and got on top of it before the cancer spread to vital organs. Those who didn't "beat" it may of left it too late to be diagnosed and may of not given themselves the best chance of "beating" cancer. And who is to say that those who have "beaten" cancer won't go into relapse ? Therefore, a lot of "beating" cancer could come down to timing of diagnoses. We then have to look even further into what causes cancer, just like with bullying and address those issues. In many cases, cancer is also reflective of ones lifestyle, not all cases, but many. So are people prepared to change their lifstyle which in many cases would prevent the cancer from occuring ? And while we are looking further into it, we can also look further into natural cures for cancer that apparently exist, but get suppressed by Pharma companies so we keep buying the newest and latest miracle cancer drug. If we have these natural cures, then the answer to cancer is sitting right in our own hands and we can't even see it, and questions of why some people die of cancer while others don't won't need to be asked, ot at least not on the scale in which we have to ask it !

Instead of having bullying programs, why don't we have more parenting programs, as most bullies are a result of poor parenting, But if we had a basic minimum requiremnt for potential parents, then would we need parenting progams to begin with, or bullying programs ?

But most people today don't want to give up their lifestyle, so the bullying, and the cancer will only continue until we look at the original source of the problem, and address that problem. We can keep wasting time and money buying band aids, or we can address the problem and have no need to get band aids in the first place.

Prevention is better than cure, and the band aid mentality is no different to a definition of insanity......................'to do the same thing over and over again, but expect a different outcome each time'.

This insanity has to stop !

From a study done by Kinsey estimated that nearly 46% of the male population had engaged in both heterosexual and homosexual activities, or "reacted to" persons of both sexes, at least once.
30% had received fellatio from another man.
And this was from 1948 and 1953 Studies

Innate bisexuality, or predisposition to bisexuality, is an idea introduced by Sigmund Freud, based on work by his associate Wilhelm Fliess. According to this theory, all humans are born bisexual but through psychological development, which includes both external and internal factors, become monosexual while the bisexuality remains in a latent state.

reply to post by ANNED

Kinsey? Ick.
Freud's ideas about sexuality? No. Just no.

Originally posted by AussieDingus
All things can be prevented to a point where its only a minor event at worst, compared to having to start programs to counter the growing problem. And if a large number of bullies come from broken homes and lifestyles, then there should be every right to interfere in their private lives, because the outcome of their private lives is affecting other peoples lives, so any claim of privacy goes out the window when you start affecting other peoples privacy.

Its not just about kids coming from broken homes and lifestyles. What about the spoilt brats who get everything they want? Are they being brought up wrong also? There are many different elements to the issue, not just kids being brought uip in abusive, non caring families.

A large part of the problem is that everyone today thinks they have the right to have a child, and then bring a child into this world without the proper love and care. But when that love and care isn't there, we end up with more and more bullies, and more and more need for bullying programs and media attention. But if we address the first real issue, its people with the mentality that they have the right to have a child.

Everyone is entitled to have children.. But answer me this. If this was an issue, why would the government encourage people (Including teenagers who only see $ Signs) to have children by giving them large amounts of money when the child is born? A lot of people have simply had children in Australia because of the government incentives that are given once the child is born. I know a couple personally.

But having a child is not a right, its a privilage, and if people can't meet some sort of basic minimum requirement then they should not be allowed to bring a child into this world, regardless of what the civil rights advocates will say. If we address that issue, knowing that many, if not most bullies come from these environments, then you have to address the enviroment that leads to this.

Again, the government encourages people to have children by giving them ridiculous amounts of money whether they are going to be good or bad parents. Some will use that money to fund gambling, alcohol addictions or at least, nothing to do with their babies needs..

Originally posted by AussieDingus
And yes, I could of used cancer as an example. But if you look close enough at the cancer cases you may be refering to, you'll probably find that those who "beat" their cancer may of had an early diagnoses and got on top of it before the cancer spread to vital organs. Those who didn't "beat" it may of left it too late to be diagnosed and may of not given themselves the best chance of "beating" cancer. And who is to say that those who have "beaten" cancer won't go into relapse ?

Its just an example. Don't look to much into it.

Instead of having bullying programs, why don't we have more parenting programs, as most bullies are a result of poor parenting, But if we had a basic minimum requiremnt for potential parents, then would we need parenting progams to begin with, or bullying programs ?

But most people today don't want to give up their lifestyle, so the bullying, and the cancer will only continue until we look at the original source of the problem, and address that problem. We can keep wasting time and money buying band aids, or we can address the problem and have no need to get band aids in the first place.

If you want the original source of the problem, point your finger at the very mob trying to fix the problem. The government may push this topic on everyone, they have simply contributed to the issue themselves also whether they agree or not. Maybe its all their fault and no-one elses?

Prevention is better than cure, and the band aid mentality is no different to a definition of insanity......................'to do the same thing over and over again, but expect a different outcome each time'.

This insanity has to stop !

Are we going to ban alcohol? Find a way to stop parents becoming drug/alcohol addicts and abusive? What about telling rich parents to stop giving their children everything they ask for? The issue is going to be around for a long time whether we try to address it or not.

reply to post by vendettent


sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better.
when this comes in there probably will be ridiculing and bullying and so on..
but that's just the dying throes of an ugly mindset
before too long it will be accepted that all humans are equal humans [shockhorror]
and it will be those who try to allege otherwise
cause worthless divides on meaningless lines
who will be looked down on

reply to post by DarknStormy


I'm well aware that bullies also come from kids being spoilt brats and i made mention of this when i said bullies come from broken homes, and also from homes without the proper love and care. Spoiling a kid IMO, is not providing proper love and care, as giving kids whatever they ask for is not teaching them life skills, and doesn't teach them the merit in working hard for what you want. But as i've been pointing out all along, this is a preventable thing. And just because a parent,or parents, can afford to spoil their kids doesn't mean that they are good parents, or even that they should of been allowed to become a parent to begin with. And if we had a basic minimum requirement for potential parents, then just because they had money wouldn't mean that they automaticaly qualify for the minimum requirements, and this would only help reduce the amount of spoilt brats, and bullies in society. Yet again,we can either keep coming up with band aid solutions, or we can start addressing the real causes.

And i'm sorry, but everyone does NOT have the right to breed, and while people have this mentality, the problems that we are discussing here will only get worse. Having a child is a privilage, not a right, and you only have to look around the world at how many bad parents there are, and the results their breeding has produced, for proof of what thinking having a child as a right has produced. Its hypocracy to say that we can't interfere in peoples personal lives by deciding who can or can't have a child, while then complaining about the behaviour and raising of children, and expecting bullying programs to have any affect. To fix any problem, you have to address the core reason of the problem, even if it takes some tough love and some tough calls to get to the core problem, then so be it, as the long term benefits will far outweigh the complaints of those who don't know the difference between a right and a privilage.

I'll do my best to answer your question about why the Government would pay a baby bonus. Well firstly, the Government knows that the average person in society is dumbed down that much, that offering a few thousand dollars to have a child will seem like an attractive offer. This would suggest their intelligence isn't all that high, and they then have a child just to get the baby bonus. Yet most logical thinking people will know just how much it cost to raise a child, and that the baby bonus would probably be spent within the first 6 months of the child being born. Yet someone lacking in logic will not see this and still be attracted to the offer. Yet if we had a basic minimum requirement for potentail parents, one could argue that the people with mentalities like this would more than likely be the people failing the basic requirements, and not having a child, and not contributing to the bullying problem. The Government wants a nation of dumbed down parents, having dumbed down children. It just makes it easier to have a nation that has just enough intelligence to operate a machine, but not enough intelligence to question why they are doing it for most of their lives, and for minimum wage. Governments see a nation as a business, not a country. So what better way of increasing the workforce that adds to the profit of the business, then by throwing peanuts [baby bonus] at monkey's [people who think its their right to breed]. And when you see Governments such as the Australian Government saying with one hand that we need a Carbon tax due to our carbon footprint, while then with the other hand saying that we need a baby bonus to increase our population [workforce], you'll see the stupidity involved by saying, we have too many footprints so we need a Carbon tax, but here's a baby bonus to add to the footprints. But yet again, as a society we do nothing about this, yet then wonder why we have to put bullying programs in place. If we address the core problem, then the programs wouldn't have a reason to exist. People can deny this all they want, but until it is addressed, the problem will only get worse, and the need for programs will only increase. Do we address the real problem, or do we keep going for the band aids ???

Your final paragraph actually proves my point. You say that having a child is a right, yet then complain that people will have a child due to the Government throwing a few thousand dollars at them, but then spending that money on things like gambling or drug addiction...........................so as i've been saying all along, would those people of become parents with a basic minimum requirement for potential parents ? If you have a child just to get a baby bonus that you then spend on gambling or drugs, then you're more than likely the type of person who would fail the basic requirements test and not add to the problem.

Prevention, or cure ??????????

Hmm...I think it's good that they're teaching children homo- and bi- sexuality isn't abnormal. Really, no one sexuality is 'normal' any more than another. Just because homo- or bi-sexuality is the minority doesn't mean it's any less 'normal' or natural.

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Originally posted by AussieDingus
And yes, I could of used cancer as an example. But if you look close enough at the cancer cases you may be refering to, you'll probably find that those who "beat" their cancer may of had an early diagnoses and got on top of it before the cancer spread to vital organs. Those who didn't "beat" it may of left it too late to be diagnosed and may of not given themselves the best chance of "beating" cancer. And who is to say that those who have "beaten" cancer won't go into relapse ?

Its just an example. Don't look to much into it.

Instead of having bullying programs, why don't we have more parenting programs, as most bullies are a result of poor parenting, But if we had a basic minimum requiremnt for potential parents, then would we need parenting progams to begin with, or bullying programs ?

But most people today don't want to give up their lifestyle, so the bullying, and the cancer will only continue until we look at the original source of the problem, and address that problem. We can keep wasting time and money buying band aids, or we can address the problem and have no need to get band aids in the first place.

If you want the original source of the problem, point your finger at the very mob trying to fix the problem. The government may push this topic on everyone, they have simply contributed to the issue themselves also whether they agree or not. Maybe its all their fault and no-one elses?

Prevention is better than cure, and the band aid mentality is no different to a definition of insanity......................'to do the same thing over and over again, but expect a different outcome each time'.

This insanity has to stop !

Are we going to ban alcohol? Find a way to stop parents becoming drug/alcohol addicts and abusive? What about telling rich parents to stop giving their children everything they ask for? The issue is going to be around for a long time whether we try to address it or not.

edit on 27-10-2012 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)

I'm not looking too much into it. You suggested cancer as an example. I replied to that example.

And the Government is not the original source of the problem, yes they do contribute to it, but the original source is the people having these children, but while this point keeps getting ignored, these people will keep having more of these kids, who will have more of those kids, and on and on, but as long as we have bullying programs to deal with the outcome of the original problem, then everyone feels warm and fuzzy insde.

As for banning alcohol, is banning alcohol going to stop people becoming alcoholics considering drugs are already illegal yet doesn't stop people from getting it and becoming addicted ? But is the alcohol and drug addiction problem due to childrens upbringings and parenting and the state of society today, where we gloriy alcohol and drug use in the movies, yet then have strict laws for its use ? It always seems to go back to square one no matter which way you look at it, and square one is the type of people breeding just because they think they have the right to breed. Just look at how many parents today look at the TV as a babysitter, and what are they watching on TV..............the gloryfying of alcohol and drugs. And here in Australia, what was the number one thing bought with the baby bonus when it was first introduced.............Plasma TV's. Back to square one !

As for rich parents giving their kids whatever they ask for, well that depends on what you teach them as you give it to them. A rich parent that just gives their kid whatever they ask for without explaining to them how lucky they are to have the life they have, and how unfortunate some others are, then they are also the type of parent that would more than likely fail the basic minimum requiremnt test, then there would be no kid to spoil, and no spoilt kid. And a basic minimum requirement test would be for all potential parents, whether rich or poor.

You are right that this issue wil be around for a long time, but i don't agree with whether we address it or not. That's a defeatist attitude where we just accept things for they way they are, but then want programs in place because we can't sort out the problems. To fix a problem, you have to address the problem, and if that involves some tough love, some hard lessons, or some disappointed people not able to have a child, then so be it because its all about the bigger long term picture, and if we don't try to fix the problem at its core, then the problem will always exist and only get worse. Remember that definition of insanity.........'to do the same thing over and over again, but expect a different outcome each time'. But until we change our approach, the insanity will only continue !

reply to post by AussieDingus

And i'm sorry, but everyone does NOT have the right to breed, and while people have this mentality, the problems that we are discussing here will only get worse. Having a child is a privilage, not a right, and you only have to look around the world at how many bad parents there are, and the results their breeding has produced, for proof of what thinking having a child as a right has produced.

No, its not a privilage. Who gave anyone the right to decide whether someone can reproduce or not regardless of there child being a bully or not? As much as some people may need a kick up the arse when it comes to parenting, everyone is entitled to reproduce if they choose to.

Its hypocracy to say that we can't interfere in peoples personal lives by deciding who can or can't have a child, while then complaining about the behaviour and raising of children, and expecting bullying programs to have any affect..

Bullying is not a reason to stop people from having children. Actually, who has the definition of a perfect parent? From both ends (Rich and Poor) we have the issue. Can you see successful people giving up their right to reproduce or accepting being told they can't?

I will answer you posts in parts, everytime I quote, it keeps deleting everything

reply to post by AussieDingus

I'll do my best to answer your question about why the Government would pay a baby bonus. Well firstly, the Government knows that the average person in society is dumbed down that much, that offering a few thousand dollars to have a child will seem like an attractive offer. This would suggest their intelligence isn't all that high, and they then have a child just to get the baby bonus.

Some people are literally stupid.. I have met a couple of people who have simply spat out kids for the baby bonus. Take into account teenagers who have flunked school, it is a perfect opportunity to get some money in their pockets. Others get the money and go on a party rampage. The whole concept of the baby bonus is ridiculous. If anyone had sense about them, they would have everything they need for the baby before it arrived remembering, the baby bonus is supposed to buy the vital things needed for a newborn.

The Government wants a nation of dumbed down parents, having dumbed down children. It just makes it easier to have a nation that has just enough intelligence to operate a machine, but not enough intelligence to question why they are doing it for most of their lives, and for minimum wage.

Exactly. So the government are contributing to the overall issue. By allowing morons to reproduce at will, they are pretty much getting their wish and also while this causes more problems, they are there to also save the country from issues like bullying and homophobia.

But yet again, as a society we do nothing about this, yet then wonder why we have to put bullying programs in place. If we address the core problem, then the programs wouldn't have a reason to exist. People can deny this all they want, but until it is addressed, the problem will only get worse, and the need for programs will only increase. Do we address the real problem, or do we keep going for the band aids ???

Heres the problem... While the governments are trying to address this problem, no doubt they will be creating another. The core problem is the small amount of people making and breaking laws. If we cannot address that problem, society will never move forward.

reply to post by AussieDingus

Your final paragraph actually proves my point. You say that having a child is a right, yet then complain that people will have a child due to the Government throwing a few thousand dollars at them, but then spending that money on things like gambling or drug addiction...........................

The problem is the government contributing to the problem. If they were not throwing thousands of dollars at people, some people simply wouldn't have children. By throwing money at people, you are influencing people to have children whether that decision is going to be in the best interest of the child or not.

so as i've been saying all along, would those people of become parents with a basic minimum requirement for potential parents? If you have a child just to get a baby bonus that you then spend on gambling or drugs, then you're more than likely the type of person who would fail the basic requirements test and not add to the problem.

But that is the problem to start with in some cases... Another problem is both parents working full-time jobs, another is parents simply letting their children run riot... So many issues can come bac to government policy, its unbelievable yet they would be the first to point the finger at you and your parenting.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


Oh please, I am pretty sure that it is being completely misunderstood. Many schools are teaching that homosexuality and heterosexuality are equal in normality, and many schools also teach LGBT related sex-ed.

This is probably something that's being misconstrued into something its not, and if it's not, that's a pretty crappy and degenerative school.

reply to post by DarknStormy


No it is not a right,yes it is a privilage. If having a child was a right, then every male would be fertile, and every woman would be able to concieve. The fact that this doesn't happen, proves that it is not a right, as a right is something that is open to all equally, but those who can have a child are fortunate and therefore privilaged to be able to have a child. Therefore it is a privilage, NOT a right. And while people continue to tell themselves that it is a right, then there will only be more adding to the problems.

You are completly missing my point about this. I'm not saying that i have the right to say who can, or who can't reproduce. I'm saying that anyone with any level of common sense can see that the way things are going are not for the betterment of society, and the fact that we need bullying programs is only further proof of society heading in the wrong direction. What i'm saying is, something drastic has to change, and if that change involves determining who can or can't breed for a period in time, not for ever, just a period of time until things show signs of imporvement, then that is what has to be done for the long term benefit of society. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, so if a few people miss out then bad luck. In the long run it will be for the better and long term gain is always better then short term pain. I also clearly made mention of having a basic minimum requirement test or check list several times, so your claims of people deciding who can and who can't breed are missing the point. We would all have a say in what was included in the requirements test, therefore if you then fail to meet the requirements, then you have no one to blame but yourself as you already knew what the requirements were. I also never said that failing the requirements would mean that you can never have a child, it just means that until you can pass or fullfill the requirements, then you don't qualify until you can meet them.

So there is no person deciding on who can or can't reproduce. It would be decided by all by what was in the basic miniumum requirements, which would be decided by the majority vote, just as most Democracies are apparently supposed to work. The requirements would then decide who can or who can't reproduce, and because it was decided on by the majority, then just like with all democracies, the minority gets to have a say, but the majority get their way !

Your quote of "Bullying is not a reason to stop people from having children" kind of misses the point of what i'm saying. Its not just that kids are bullying that is the problem, the bullying is just a result of the problem. The problem is people that probably should never be parents in the first place, bring a child into this world because they think its their right. that child doesn't recieve the proper love, care, education, life skills etc, that would help them grow as a person, they then grow up in a broken home, or in a spoilt rich home, they then pass on their frustrations to others and then we have this bullying epidemic sweeping across the western world, and all this need to have bullying programs. Yet do any of these programs actually target the parents, which are the root cause in the upbringing of most bullies, or spolit brats that we see ? Does a bullying program actually stop a bully from doing what a bully does, much like does the terrorist act actually stop a terrorist from doing what a terroirst does. And as i've been saying all along, its the problem you have to address and fix, not the outcome from the problem. Again, i will use the band aid example, do we keep going for the band aids, or do we address why the band aids are needed in the first place and take steps to reduce or even eliminate the need for band aids ?

The very mentality of thinking something is your right, instantly gets the average person to take for granted what their right is,BUT, when its classed as a privilage, then you are privilaged to have what you have recieved, and you will treat it better, love it more, and have IT'S best interest at heart. And its the mentality of thinking its a right to have a child thats actually part of the problem, which also needs to be addressed. Or, we can keep going on the way we are, which yet again falls under a definiton of insanity............"to do the same thing over and over, but expect a different outcome each time".

So, we can keep doing things the same old way, which is insane, or we can change the short term way we do things for the benefit of the long term future. But until we are prepared to try something different, then it will just the be the same results getting worse and worse, regardless of how many programs we can think of, or how many therapists we can find. Programs and therapists are just band aids, not the answer !

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by AussieDingus

 

I'll do my best to answer your question about why the Government would pay a baby bonus. Well firstly, the Government knows that the average person in society is dumbed down that much, that offering a few thousand dollars to have a child will seem like an attractive offer. This would suggest their intelligence isn't all that high, and they then have a child just to get the baby bonus.

Some people are literally stupid.. I have met a couple of people who have simply spat out kids for the baby bonus. Take into account teenagers who have flunked school, it is a perfect opportunity to get some money in their pockets. Others get the money and go on a party rampage. The whole concept of the baby bonus is ridiculous. If anyone had sense about them, they would have everything they need for the baby before it arrived remembering, the baby bonus is supposed to buy the vital things needed for a newborn.

The Government wants a nation of dumbed down parents, having dumbed down children. It just makes it easier to have a nation that has just enough intelligence to operate a machine, but not enough intelligence to question why they are doing it for most of their lives, and for minimum wage.

Exactly. So the government are contributing to the overall issue. By allowing morons to reproduce at will, they are pretty much getting their wish and also while this causes more problems, they are there to also save the country from issues like bullying and homophobia.

But yet again, as a society we do nothing about this, yet then wonder why we have to put bullying programs in place. If we address the core problem, then the programs wouldn't have a reason to exist. People can deny this all they want, but until it is addressed, the problem will only get worse, and the need for programs will only increase. Do we address the real problem, or do we keep going for the band aids ???

Heres the problem... While the governments are trying to address this problem, no doubt they will be creating another. The core problem is the small amount of people making and breaking laws. If we cannot address that problem, society will never move forward.

Before i start on this one, i'd like to make it clear this is not a personal attack against you in any way, its just that you seem to take expception to my suggestions, yet when give examples you actually prove the point i'm trying to make............................

Let me explain. You use an example of stupid people who pump out kids to get the baby bonus, yet you defend their right to have a child ???? Would a stupid person like this pass the basic minimum requirement............maybe, but probably not. So no child born, no issue to worry about.

You also say that the Government is contributing to the issue by throwing money at moron's to breed at will, yet you defend those moron's right to breed ??? Would a moron pass the basic minimum requirement...............maybe, but probably not. No child, no money being thrown, no issue to worry about.

As i earlier explained about the baby bonus, the government knows that dumb people will more than likely breed more dumb people,sorry but thats just the cold hard thruth of it and THEY know this. So they keep throwing money at the monkey's and sit back and watch all the little peanuts come running out. Then when the peanuts grow up causing trouble due to being raised by at least one monkey, the rest of us all jump up and down and demand programs be put in place, and discipline action being taken, yet those same people will then defend those monkeys right to breed ?????

Society can only ever move forward when we learn from past mistakes, address those mistakes, and make the necessary improvements, and if that means deciding in the short term who can and who can't breed, then thats what has to be done. We can sit around and blame the government all we want, but at the end of the day our system says that we vote in our government. So if we have a government thats making and breaking the laws, and we sit back and watch them do it for 4 years before lining up to do it all over again [remember that definition of insanity], then we have to accept some of the blame too, as we voted for them...............or so we're led to believe Lol

The core problem isn't government, its the stupid people and moron's [as you yourself referred to them as] breeding. And until we DO something about this, it will just go on and on only getting worse as we go. Band aids anyone ?

So do we try and prevent this from occuring in the future, or do we keep looking for the cures that have a history of achieving little to nothing ? Prevention is beter than cure !

Bullies grow up as low income adults (possible addictions) - parents need money - parents see an opportunity for short term pleasure and ignore long term consequences - baby goes into the oven - though parents despise their own parents they intentionally or unintentionally adopt similar parenting techniques - child grows up insecure and hating himself - child realizes if he puts others down it makes his #ty situation seem better - bully is born - cycle may or may not continue.

If a baby bonus is only nickles and dimes to the government couldn't they set in place a program that evaluates the individual totally then the possible parents write a test and if they pass they get right to conception certificate and baby bonus but if they fail (with results that show there isn't chance for change) they get the same amount of baby bonus on the condition that they get a vasectomy (is that right spelling?) or there tubes tied.
I don't know if that is a stupid idea or not, anyone want to share opinions?

The test would involve checking intelligence, psychological health, wealth, criminal record, neurological info then the parents take a test. That way they could get a basic idea of the probs conditions before they take a questions and answer test.

Even if someone fit to have a child and deliberately fails the test for the money it still helps with shrinking the population.

Well, teaching heterosexuality is not the norm is one way to control population growth I think the governments are using many forms of population control myself. This could all go bad in a little while with reductions in the genetic diversity pool. Kill off too many variations and noone will be able to have kids.