Children to be taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' in Australian schools project

Originally posted by LDYSS
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

We do not "know" that homosexuality is not normal. This is an opinion, and what are you basing that opinion on?

so.... you actually want more Jimmy Saville's out in the World??

This is what would happen to some of these boys when they get older and also some of these boys will get touched up by grown men thinking its normal!!

Get a grip on the situation.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Originally posted by LDYSS
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

We do not "know" that homosexuality is not normal. This is an opinion, and what are you basing that opinion on?

so.... you actually want more Jimmy Saville's out in the World??

This is what would happen to some of these boys when they get older and also some of these boys will get touched up by grown men thinking its normal!!

Get a grip on the situation.

As opposed to girls who get touched by grown men thinking it is normal??? Are you saying that it is preferable?

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by FlySolo
You would never see a hetero parade with guys pulling down their girlfriend's pants or have her expose her breasts like they do with the gay parades.

I just don't get it. They want to be equal but when they get their parade, they act like they're in the gay bar.

[/rant]

Ummm, have you ever been to Mardi Gras? Or anyplace during Spring Break? Lots of heteros doing some pretty nasty things in public.

Very good point...which illustrates the point, that we should all have the choice as to what sort of sexual behaviors we think are appropriate and healthy. ...and the state does not have the right to force feed their opinions on the matter in the educational systems.

Of course, we should all have the choice of whatever sexual behavior we think is appropriate for us - homosexually or heterosexually -- as long as we aren't breaking any laws or victimizing anyone. What's wrong with an education program telling kids this?

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


Or grown girls touching young boys for that matter

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Originally posted by LDYSS
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

We do not "know" that homosexuality is not normal. This is an opinion, and what are you basing that opinion on?

so.... you actually want more Jimmy Saville's out in the World??

This is what would happen to some of these boys when they get older and also some of these boys will get touched up by grown men thinking its normal!!

Get a grip on the situation.

Stupidest thing I have read all day...

"The greatness of any city can be judged by the way it treats its weakest member."
I like this quote. It's very timeless and awesome and paraphrased so many times. Is something that I think a lot of people can agree with and it's what I think of when I read this:

Originally posted by dontreally
In a democratic society, things don't work that way. DEAL with it.

Programming children to see things in Unchristian, or Unjewish ways, thereby undermining the child's (and families) personal beliefs, is an infringement on free thinking.

Telling people unchristian or unjewish ways is an infringement on free thinking? I would say censorship is an infringement on free thinking, but this? I see a lot of statements that ones sexuality doesn't belong in a list of reasons that people shouldn't be bullied. You will say that homosexuals shouldn't be bullied, but you don't want a child to be told that?

The belief that (whether philosophical or not) God created Earth then watched a person named Joseph and a woman named Eve having a chat with a talking snake before eating an apple has been protected for quite some time. I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful, I'm a little tired of being called bigoted against religious people... but what I've said is in no way any more offensive than many people's comments here about my sexuality. I don't believe religion to be any more 'factual' than persons here believe my sexuality is 'good'.

First, I am not morally obligated to make a homosexual kid feel better about his 'tendencies' [sic]
He could develop some self esteem and deal with it.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
homosexuals should open a school for homosexual kids... Would that work better? make them feel a bit more comfortable, equal?

Is this where we are? Dealing with difference with 'deal with it' ... is that 'tolerance?' Is that 'dealing with it'? No, it is fleeing from it.

I, personally, 'tolerate' religion being protected under anti-bullying guidelines. I don't believe religious people should be bullied, but like the religious people I sometimes think those policies try to place religion above being criticized but that's life. All sides have to deal with that 'protection'.

If I'm a Muslim, believing in the prophet Muhammad and perhaps the religion responsible for 9/11: protected. Ginger haired people, less than 1 - 2% of the population: protected. Fat people, discuss them all you like: protected. People in wheel chairs ... we plan entire buildings around them, less than 2 - 3% of the population ... protected.

My expression of sexuality is, in many ways, a form of free speech. The ability to discuss my experiences and the feelings within my body in an educational environment would have been invaluable to my development as a child. I don't want to get overly personal, but my parents weren't exactly there for me, and I wonder how many experiences as a child I missed trying to pretend to be one of you.

The majority hold the keys to my freedom and speech. It's the power and responsibility you hold as the majority of a democracy. I've tolerated persons wearing burqa's at my schools, sihks and their turbans and long hair, Muslims and their prayer times ... in my university life I've had students change exam times for their special holidays and feasts without complaint. Every Thursday a group of Christians set up outside my office and hand out fliers about their faith. I don't bother them.

I'm not asking people to give up faith or beliefs. I'm not asking to disband the family unit; I wish mine had stayed together. Not even asking you to give up the free rights to your opinions but please ensure that I have mine.
You're not forbidding a sexual act from being discussed, you're forbidding me and my personal experiences from being discussed for all purposes from advice to help to learning.

As a group many can't even agree what I am ... I'm a choice, I'm an illness, I'm a mutation, an aberration, a sin, a handicap in seek of cure, or you simply don't care ...

If I'm handicapped, let me be discussed and give me my access ramp. If I'm an illness, let me be till you find a cure. I'm pretty sure I'm not a choice and the rest of it is your opinion.

I wish I had time and space to explain better but this is such a complex topic. To me, if the religious are really worried ... then lets meet half way. Discuss dealing with different opinions appropriately and respectfully at work and school.

As for segregation ... this person makes me have hope one day we can all just get along:

Oh and to the mardi gras/buttless chaps people ... I assure you, if myself and my friends dress for a Saturday night and walk into a 'hetero' night club ... we're the ones whose underwear you can't see from 20 ft away in the dark. >.>

If fundamentalist Christians want to retain their right to bash homosexuals, then everybody sure as f*** has the right to bash Christians and their childish beliefs in magical beings as well as their inability to think logically or in general use their brains..

reply to post by kaylaluv

Of course, we should all have the choice of whatever sexual behavior we think is appropriate for us - homosexually or heterosexually -- as long as we aren't breaking any laws or victimizing anyone. What's wrong with an education program telling kids this?

Telling them that others have the right to do what is legally considered ok is one thing....but teaching them that sexual preferences are natural, and should be not deemed incorrect by others is another.

It is legal to have sex with animals in some countries...should I teach my children that it is ok, and they shouldn't judge that sexual preference ?

I certainly wouldn't teach them to hate these people or bully them..but would I be allowed to tell them that I believe it is NOT the way the creator intended for sex to be ?

There are many behaviors within sexuality that are deemed legal, that I personally believe are very dangerous to ones psychi. I would hate for the state to start reinforcing them as perfectly acceptable behavior within the classrooms of children.

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Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
Telling them that others have the right to do what is legally considered ok is one thing....but teaching them that sexual preferences are natural, and should be not deemed incorrect by others is another.

Wait, you have evidence on the contrary?

Originally posted by rhinoceros
If fundamentalist Christians want to retain their right to bash homosexuals, then everybody sure as f*** has the right to bash Christians and their childish beliefs in magical beings as well as their inability to think logically or in general use their brains..

I'm a Christian and I am not bashing homosexuals...I am disagreeing with their sexual preferences...as i disagree with the sexual preferences of many who are not homosexual.

They have a right to disagree with me...but tell me...where is your logic in saying that I can't have opinions on what is deemed appropriate in the sexual preferences of others...and I have the right to not have my children indoctrinated with someone elses beliefs.

I guess it's logic , that we should all just have a free for all regarding sexual values ?

I see far more bullying of people who will not accept that homosexuality is natural, and should not be deemed inappropriate sexual behavior , than the other way around. But it is quickly becoming accepted to ostracize someone for their beliefs , and call them rude names, by children and adults alike.

Children as well as adults are being bullied because of their religious beliefs , and ostracized, and made to feel "less than" or undereducated and stupid, but that is becoming widely accepted, and even encouraged by many...how sad.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds

Originally posted by rhinoceros
If fundamentalist Christians want to retain their right to bash homosexuals, then everybody sure as f*** has the right to bash Christians and their childish beliefs in magical beings as well as their inability to think logically or in general use their brains..

I'm a Christian and I am not bashing homosexuals...I am disagreeing with their sexual preferences...as i disagree with the sexual preferences of many who are not homosexual.

They have a right to disagree with me...but tell me...where is your logic in saying that I can't have opinions on the what is deemed appropriate in the sexual preferences of others...and I have the right to not have my children indoctrinated with someone elses beliefs.

I guess it's logic , that we should all just have a free for all regarding sexual values ?

I see far more bullying of people who will not accept that homosexuality is natural, and should not be deemed inappropriate sexual behavior , than the other way around. But it is quickly becoming accepted to ostracize someone for their beliefs , and call them rude names, by children and adults alike.

Children are bullied because of their religious beliefs , and ostracized, and made to feel "less than" or undereducated and stupid, but that is becoming widely accepted, and even encouraged by many...how sad.

edit on 22-10-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

People have always been bullied about homosexuality, maybe a taste of their own medicine (for the religious folk) wouldn't be such a bad thing.

reply to post by SerialVelocity

People have always been bullied about homosexuality, maybe a taste of their own medicine (for the religious folk) wouldn't be such a bad thing.

People have been bullied for many reasons through out time concerning the sexual practices of others . We are now coming to the awareness that premarital sex, and impregnation is not a reason to secretly send you children away, and force them to give up their children , many of whom were conceived in love .

I am an older person , and personally never saw anyone being bullied in school for homosexual acts that they were secretly having, though many knew about it. I sure saw a lot of these boys call other girls sluts and whores, because they happened to have sex, and get pregnant.

From my own personal experiences, I can say you are totally wrong, on who was bullied, and why, and by whom.

I have said before in this thread, and I will say it again I personally know gay people that I care about deeply, and admire greatly, but they know I simply don't agree with their sexuality ,as they don't agree with some of my concepts about sexuality.

Do I need to be called a bully, because I love them despite my disagreement ?

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by SerialVelocity

 

People have always been bullied about homosexuality, maybe a taste of their own medicine (for the religious folk) wouldn't be such a bad thing.

People have been bullied for many reasons through out time concerning the sexual practices of others . We are now coming to the awareness that premarital sex, and impregnation is not a reason to secretly send you children away, and force them to give up their children , many of whom were conceived in love .

I am an older person , and personally never saw anyone being bullied in school for homosexual acts that they were secretly having, though many knew about it. I sure saw a lot of these boys call other girls sluts and whores, because they happened to have sex, and get pregnant.

From my own personal experiences, I can say you are totally wrong, on who was bullied, and why, and by whom.

I have said before in this thread, and I will say it again I personally know gay people that I care about deeply, and admire greatly, but they know I simply don't agree with their sexuality ,as they don't agree with some of my concepts about sexuality.

Do I need to be called a bully, because I love them despite my disagreement ?

edit on 22-10-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

Well I never actually stated who did the bullying or why so I would like you to use some common sense and accept that gay people have been bullied for many, many years. I would like to say however that the bullying towards homosexuals usually comes from a certain direction and that is the church/religion. Oh and I also believe that the reason girls are called sluts and whores also stems from our patriarchal society and has deep roots within religion.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
"There is no such thing as right and wrong" is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever heard .

The only people that believe in objective morals are usually religious to some extent. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be rude about this in the least, but morals are a social construct and differ from culture to culture, which implies that there are no objective morals. I think people get so upset about the fact that morals differ across the world because deep down it makes them realize that if every culture has its own set of rules, then there probably isn't a sky daddy in the clouds who originally set the objective rules for humans that keep us safe, and that leads to the realization that the world is more or less random chaos.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Of course, we should all have the choice of whatever sexual behavior we think is appropriate for us - homosexually or heterosexually -- as long as we aren't breaking any laws or victimizing anyone. What's wrong with an education program telling kids this?

Telling them that others have the right to do what is legally considered ok is one thing....but teaching them that sexual preferences are natural, and should be not deemed incorrect by others is another.

It is legal to have sex with animals in some countries...should I teach my children that it is ok, and they shouldn't judge that sexual preference ?

I certainly wouldn't teach them to hate these people or bully them..but would I be allowed to tell them that I believe it is NOT the way the creator intended for sex to be ?

There are many behaviors within sexuality that are deemed legal, that I personally believe are very dangerous to ones psychi. I would hate for the state to start reinforcing them as perfectly acceptable behavior within the classrooms of children.

Having sex with animals is not legal where I come from, nor is it legal in Australia, so I don't think the Australian education program is telling kids it's ok to have sex with animals. Also, it's victimizing an animal, so.....not a good analogy, I'm afraid.

There are some people who think anything other than the missionary position is sinful, but I don't believe the Australian education program is going into detail on sexual acts or positions. I think they are leaving the details to the parents.

Again, if the Australian education program is all about demystifying homosexuality, by letting kids know that homosexuals aren't "monsters", and that a certain percentage of the population is and always has been homosexual -- it would really help those kids who are already feeling that they are homosexual (and feeling bad about it), and it would help the other kids be more understanding and less hostile towards these kids.

And I wish you would stop comparing homosexuality with things like pedophilia, bestiality, and other cruel, victimizing sex acts. Homosexuals are consenting adults who are capable of just as much love, nurturing and commitment as heterosexuals. Remember, homosexuals are about more than just the sex they have. They can, and do have lasting relationships with their partners. They can, and do raise children in loving, nurturing homes. The can, and do function in society as normally as anyone else does. I would want any school to tell my child this.

reply to post by SerialVelocity

Well I never actually stated who did the bullying or why so I would like you to use some common sense and accept that gay people have been bullied for many, many years.

Actually that is NOT true. Homosexuality had been secretly condoned and promoted within religious organizations for many years.

Why do you think there are so many priests who are homosexual ? Why do you think that there is such a problem with priests being attracted to young men ? It was promoted and condoned, and many that experienced it as alter boys went on to became priests, because it was accepted and condoned from within by many.

Many of the same priests were the same ones who stood at the pulpit on Sunday moralizing on premarital sex , and looking down on young girls who got pregnant, because after all it was the womens fault...men naturally have a sex drive, it is women who are required to say no, according to them. Yet the countless acts of homosexuality within the church and within families, was never addressed or preached about..and very RARELY was there any bullying done about it.

THAT IS FACT !!!

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by SerialVelocity

 

Well I never actually stated who did the bullying or why so I would like you to use some common sense and accept that gay people have been bullied for many, many years.

Actually that is NOT true. Homosexuality had been secretly condoned and promoted within religious organizations for many years.

Why do you think there are so many priests who are homosexual ? Why do you think that there is such a problem with priests being attracted to young men ? It was promoted and condoned, and those that experienced it as alter boys went on to became priests, because it was accepted and condoned from within by many.

Many of the same priests were the same ones who stood at the pulpit on Sunday moralizing on premarital sex , and looking down on young girls who got pregnant, because after all it was the womens fault...men naturally have a sex drive, it is women who are required to say no, according to them. Yet the countless acts of homosexuality within the church and within families, was never addressed or preached about..and very RARELY was there any bullying done about it.

THAT IS FACT !!!

edit on 22-10-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

Haha just because you shout that it is a fact with your caps lock on, doesn't make it a fact. Sorry.

Oh and are there 'so many' priests that are homosexual? I have heard about a few that touch little boys but I would class that as paedophilia (of the homosexual kind) and not pure homosexuality. I feel you are blurring the lines between the two again.

Originally posted by SerialVelocity

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by SerialVelocity

 

Well I never actually stated who did the bullying or why so I would like you to use some common sense and accept that gay people have been bullied for many, many years.

Actually that is NOT true. Homosexuality had been secretly condoned and promoted within religious organizations for many years.

Why do you think there are so many priests who are homosexual ? Why do you think that there is such a problem with priests being attracted to young men ? It was promoted and condoned, and those that experienced it as alter boys went on to became priests, because it was accepted and condoned from within by many.

Many of the same priests were the same ones who stood at the pulpit on Sunday moralizing on premarital sex , and looking down on young girls who got pregnant, because after all it was the womens fault...men naturally have a sex drive, it is women who are required to say no, according to them. Yet the countless acts of homosexuality within the church and within families, was never addressed or preached about..and very RARELY was there any bullying done about it.

THAT IS FACT !!!

edit on 22-10-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

Haha just because you shout that it is a fact with your caps lock on, doesn't make it a fact. Sorry.

Oh and are there 'so many' priests that are homosexual? I have heard about a few that touch little boys but I would class that as paedophilia (of the homosexual kind) and not pure homosexuality. I feel you are blurring the lines between the two again.

Oh really.. boys the age of 15 and up can be considered young men by some...just as young girls that age are considered young women by many.

They weren't touching just "little boys" , they were having homosexual relations amongst themselves who were already grown men.

I know of someone who works at a place for elderly priests , and she was told by a priest ,that many priests joined the priesthood, because it was considered taboo to be gay, so they went where it was secretly accepted condoned, and often promoted by many within the priesthood. Not saying by all within the priesthood, but by many.

So your facts that homosexuals have been bullied by the religious over time is not very accurate , I would go so far to say, that some within religious organizations of various denominations have secretly bullied those who spurred their homosexual sexual advances.

How many boys have been bullied in the school yard by other boys, because secretly they did NOT want to participate in homosexual activity ? That answer might surprise you as well. These boys may not have have outwardly been outed for not wanting to participate, but they sure felt the repercussions of bullying for not wanting to be a part of the "boyz club".

.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
I'm a Christian and I am not bashing homosexuals...I am disagreeing with their sexual preferences...as i disagree with the sexual preferences of many who are not homosexual.

They have a right to disagree with me...but tell me...where is your logic in saying that I can't have opinions on what is deemed appropriate in the sexual preferences of others...and I have the right to not have my children indoctrinated with someone elses beliefs.

You have the right to your opinions. However, your religious views should not dictate the school curriculum. I want my children to learn facts, not some old outdated ethics and customs of Middle Eastern tribes.