Children to be taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' in Australian schools project

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
Does your child attend a separate school, because if she/he does, it is your choice to not send them to a school that obviously has religion in its curriculum.

You say you want your children to be free and not force fed, yet you curse because she freely loves religion ?

They do not teach religion in schools unless it is a religious school..that is a CHOICE made by the parent..who is not a stranger.

My youngest is in primary school (Government funded) and they do teach religion regardless of what the parent wants.

When it comes the homosexuality issue what are we talking about, high school?

Originally posted by Rubicant13
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

 

My daughters I would love no matter what their orientation is, that's the point. I sure as hell would not make them feel in any way inferior in any regard for being so. My daughters are my world - nothing about any aspect of them will ever change that. I apologized to you because I didn't understand how you were tieing in pedophiles with people that are gay and their sexual orientation and how that has anything to do with this threads content as referenced in the opening article. Because it doesn't and bringing it up is absurd in my eyes. Maybe that tonight is beyond your comprehension for some reason? Think on this a moment. It may stop your head from spinning.

edit on 22-10-2012 by Rubicant13 because: (no reason given)

No this thread is about the state teaching that it is normal, and as natural for homosexuals to be that way as heterosexuality.

Again..the same scientific logic that is used to say that homosexuality is not a choice, but the way you are born..is the same scientific logic that is trying to to say pedophiles were born that way as well.

If you can't see the same "fighting for the way I was born" logic , and the same "you have no right to condemn my sexual preferences" thinking ..in many matters of sexuality, not just pedophilia , than what is absurd, is me trying to make you understand that I speak perfect sense , but you just can't see it right now.

I still love ya though, no matter how much you just can't see the crux of what I am getting at.

reply to post by lucid eyes

It wont be long before heterosexuality is considered a discriminatory hate-crime.

Good grief.

Do you really think that? That soon in Mankinds future heterosexuals will be treated with disdain and hate simply for having the natural sexual orientation of heterosexuality?!??

What a horrible crazy sci-fi idea! Hard to wrap the mind around! Being hated because of orientation!?? Oh wait......

Hopefully it won't come to that! Hopefully society will mature enough to not discriminate against any sexual orientation.

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
Does your child attend a separate school, because if she/he does, it is your choice to not send them to a school that obviously has religion in its curriculum.

You say you want your children to be free and not force fed, yet you curse because she freely loves religion ?

They do not teach religion in schools unless it is a religious school..that is a CHOICE made by the parent..who is not a stranger.

My youngest is in primary school (Government funded) and they do teach religion regardless of what the parent wants.

When it comes the homosexuality issue what are we talking about, high school?

edit on 22-10-2012 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)

I see..my apologies for not understanding fully .

I hope you and your child can have some interesting, and enlightening conversations on why she/he loves religion so much, and why you do not believe in such things.

I wish you both the best.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


That is so gay!

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
reply to post by magma

 

Oh Yeah....I have a pretty good idea.....and think it has been spelled out pretty well in this thread already by several others. I agree this is about a much more sinister agenda then just a campaign against bullying.

I read a story recently about a UK celeberty named Fabar I believe....but what really stood out to me was that he was very popular with the Royal Family, often a guest to the palace, he rubbed elbows with politicians and other elites and celeberties...what did a two bit entertainer have that would make him soo popular with these folks?

According to his Nephew he provided children for them to sexually abuse, and was a real "freak" himself. I have heard this theme occur more and more these days concerning powerful people and pedophilla...Same thing here in the US...so I have very big concerns about why there is such a big agenda to sexualize kids through schools and the media.

My research into these subjects and my "gut" Mommy instincts tell me this is wrong.

edit on 22-10-2012 by MountainLaurel because: (no reason given)

Trust those instincts! They are right on target. Wow.....that's seriously twisted, though, sadly, not surprising! Probably a true story, too. I remember one certain performer, whose name I won't type, that was abusing kids, and the parents sent the kids to his place. All for the "fame", I suppose. After a lot of attention, he fled to a country that is known for child sex trade. Another famous actor not too long back stated that he and many others were abused that way as kids, and that people would be shocked to learn just who in Hollywood was an abuser. Still no name list, sadly, but it's no accident that this is the people pushing the sexualization of the children.

Personally, I have speculated on why certain judges here seem to always give such a light sentence to pedos. I think some of the judges ARE pedos. We know they do group together online and in other ways (proven in police cases), so it would not surprise me that such could be judges, too. Then we have the government trying to take control of the children from the parents. Controlling even what they EAT these days. Teaching them immoral behavior, communist ideas, and so on. It's no accident, and it's very disturbing. Among the reasons my mommy instinct said to home school!

reply to post by WhisperingWinds


Well, keep thinking that anything that uses religious bias to condemn or make someone feel like they are less than anyone else is perfect sense, I however will not. Ever. Have fun with that. Done with this thread.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds


I don't hate religion... I disagree with the way it is taught to them. I have a completely different stand point on religion compared to what our children are taught. I don't want my kids to be bible preaching (quoting every god damn verse to get their point across) people.. There is more to it than just learning about Jesus.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Now you have pointed out my issue with this sort of teaching in the schools.

You think kids are being taught about that "sort" of thing? Do you have any personal knowledge of this?

I know what my eldest saw when she was in public schools. I know I have read reports, and talked to parents, about lessons in pretty graphic homosexual practices being discussed in assemblies. I know that teaching kids that something is "normal" makes them assume it's true. Teaching them that they "might be gay" if they are different can and will add confusion, and that does happen. yes, I talk to parents, hear from kids. I didn't see it in MY school, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen now. Did you watch that video link?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by LadyGreenEyesToo much of the "sex ed" teaching is assuming that these KIDS will be having sex, instead of teaching them that they are not ready.

It seems that you are assuming what is being taught but guess what? Some kids will be having sex no matter what they are told. Some will do so specifically because they have been told how bad it is.

Sure, some kids will, but more will if they are told it's acceptable. More will if the consequences of their actions are erased (though they can't really be). Free birth control, abortion on demand, and the idea that there is no real morality involved all tell kids to behave like animals. What if this was some other issue, say theft? Instead of teaching kids that stealing is wrong, suppose the schools taught them that it is all relative? That as long as they didn't get caught, or kill anyone, it wasn't really a problem? How about murder? At what point do we draw the line?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by LadyGreenEyesIt isn't simply homosexuality being promoted in the schools

I was with you up to this point. Why do you say homosexuality is being promoted in the schools? You have personal knowledge of this?

It's past time that all this sexual teaching is removed from the schools, and they are returned to the purported purpose of actual education.

Really? Oh wait, I forgot that you think biology and sexuality are two entirely separate things. I suppose you think that emotion has nothing to do with either of them too.


It isn't the job of the schools to teach sexuality. They are supposed to teach things like mathematics, history, language arts, science, and so forth. Not emotions and sexual practices. it's no wonder that our education system is such a complete failure these days.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by lucid eyes

 

It wont be long before heterosexuality is considered a discriminatory hate-crime.

Good grief.

Do you really think that? That soon in Mankinds future heterosexuals will be treated with disdain and hate simply for having the natural sexual orientation of heterosexuality?!??

What a horrible crazy sci-fi idea! Hard to wrap the mind around! Being hated because of orientation!??

Oh wait......

Hopefully it won't come to that! Hopefully society will mature enough to not discriminate against any sexual orientation.

I guess you missed the quote from Plato that someone posted, wherein he did just that:

"Homosexuality, is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce." - Plato

Seems like a pretty disdainful attitude towards non-homosexuals to me. It it happened then, it could happen now. Every hear that phrase, "History repeats itself."?

Originally posted by Rubicant13
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

 

Well, keep thinking that anything that uses religious bias to condemn or make someone feel like they are less than anyone else is perfect sense, I however will not. Ever. Have fun with that. Done with this thread.

Well...continuing to think that any of us who are saying we don't agree with homosexuality are saying that homosexuals are less than anyone of us, is pretty obtuse.

We are not condemning the human being, just disagreeing with the sexual behavior, much as I would disagree with the sexual behavior of people who "swap" partners for kicks, or other sexual "preferences" they may have.

God loves us all EQUALLY in my opinion, but it doesn't mean he condones all of our behaviors, and I certainly don't have to accept or condone the sexual behaviors of others to say I consider them a human being worthy of my love, or Gods love.

Have fun with that judgement , because I guarantee you rubicant, that someday someone will use that very same judgement on you because you don't agree with their "sexual behavior" with or without the religious bias being brought into it at all.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
The more they teach kids about sex ed, the more kids are having sex, and the higher the teen pregnancy rates.

www.teachersmedia.co.uk...

www.spiegel.de...

I'm not convinced on that one. In the UK, our sex ed programs aren't as robust as others on the continent, but our teen pregnancy and STI rates are astronomical in comparison. Not to mention the fact that we also have a higher age of consent threshold, (16 here, generally between 13-15 EU-wide.)

Looking at the stats here in the US, it seems pretty clear. The more "open-minded" people became about teen sex, and the more it was taught in schools, the higher the rates of teen sex and pregnancy. I am not familiar with the UK programs, though. Do you know what they actually teach? How long they have been doing so? What changes have come, and when? It's certainly worth a serious study, I believe, to see what affects such programs have. Of course, attention would have to be paid to other factors as well, such as economic status, cultural norms, and so forth. I do like the higher age of consent there. 13-15 in most of Europe? WOW! I didn't know that! I know a few places here, it is lower (decided state by state), but I wasn't aware of the European range.

Anyway, on the rates there; do you have any sources for a breakdown on those? Meaning by economics, ethnicity, religion, or whatever? If the rates are that high, there has to be a reason.

Just had a look... seems ours has gone down recently: news.uk.msn.com...

There has been quite a lot of talk about it in recent years; we don't have PSAs like you guys (outside of political party broadcasts, anyway) but there have been documentaries on how weak our sex-ed game is compared to the rest of Europe.

When I was at school, you got a week of sex-ed in Year 6 (last year of primary school). That consisted of biology and (non-sexual, funnily enough) relationships. Then, in Year 9, we touched on sex-education, but it was less state-sanctioned. It was essentially our Biology teacher saying, "You guys have to know this, so while we're doing reproduction, what the hey?" That was mainly to do with contraception and erm... urges. Apparently there was some sort of pact between the Science Dept. to give us some advice at least.

I left secondary school for uni about three-and-a-half years ago, so you can imagine how different things are, now that the rate has dropped by almost a tenth. My youngest brother says they go waaaaay more in depth now, but as you can imagine, we don't talk about it much further.

In any case, the EU is considerably less religious than the US, yet the pregnancy rates show this:

en.wikipedia.org...

So it's really nothing to do with religion. Any thoughts?

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

 

I don't hate religion... I disagree with the way it is taught to them. I have a completely different stand point on religion compared to what our children are taught. I don't want my kids to be bible preaching (quoting every god damn verse to get their point across) people.. There is more to it than just learning about Jesus.

Well, as a parent, you have every right to teach your children about religion as YOU see fit. Yes, there is more to it than that. Learning about Jesus isn't just reciting verses; it's supposed to be about a personal relationship. That's what I believe, in any case. I don't know where you are, that the kids are taught religion in a public school, but certainly you can talk to them at home as well. That said, I don't have any issue with using a quote to make a point, when appropriate, but yes, it can be done in the wrong way. I am Baptist, and have known people that annoyed me that way! All that aside, though, you are still their parent, and you have a lot of influence if you choose to use it. Whatever your beliefs, you have that right.

reply to post by decepticonLaura


Billy and his parents were judged because in that hypathetical situation, Billy wanted to "choke" his daughter...and had been taught that behavior by his parents, really? You have no problem with that? In that senario Billy was influenced by his parents to associate sexual pleasure with violence, lol, thank goodness in this case the parents weren't real, and clearly exposed thier child to things I would consider to be tramatic to Billy....even Phage said he would tell his daughter to stay away from him, and report his behavior.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to want to defend people enjoying "kinky" sex, and I'm aware that is subjective between the people involved....BUT... what does that have to do with sexualizing kids?

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


I'm in Australia and they do have someone come to the schools and teach them a bit about religion once a week or what ever it is these days. I am not a church practicing catholic. I have studied the bible on and of for the past 5 years and have come to the decision that the bible isn't meant to be taken literally even though it does have some very good values which may be used in ones life.

The book to me is meant to be studied. Not just read at face value causing people to become verse reciting mental cases who think its OK to walk around to peoples homes dropping of pamphlets and converting people. They remind me of electrical company representatives trying to persuade you to change electric companys.

I disagree with the overall teaching in churches and society. People need to use their own minds and come to their own conclusions. If you sit in church, listen to a priest tell you his version of the book, you are not learning anything.. And don't forget to drop some money in the tin also

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
Just had a look... seems ours has gone down recently: news.uk.msn.com...

There has been quite a lot of talk about it in recent years; we don't have PSAs like you guys (outside of political party broadcasts, anyway) but there have been documentaries on how weak our sex-ed game is compared to the rest of Europe.

When I was at school, you got a week of sex-ed in Year 6 (last year of primary school). That consisted of biology and (non-sexual, funnily enough) relationships. Then, in Year 9, we touched on sex-education, but it was less state-sanctioned. It was essentially our Biology teacher saying, "You guys have to know this, so while we're doing reproduction, what the hey?" That was mainly to do with contraception and erm... urges. Apparently there was some sort of pact between the Science Dept. to give us some advice at least.

I left secondary school for uni about three-and-a-half years ago, so you can imagine how different things are, now that the rate has dropped by almost a tenth. My youngest brother says they go waaaaay more in depth now, but as you can imagine, we don't talk about it much further.

In any case, the EU is considerably less religious than the US, yet the pregnancy rates show this:

en.wikipedia.org...

So it's really nothing to do with religion. Any thoughts?

edit on 22-10-2012 by ihavenoaccount because: (no reason given)

Interesting stats, and thank you. Nice to see the rates going down (here, too), but the abortion rates are disturbing. Yes, I am VERY pro-life. The idea of that large a percentage getting an abortion, and going through all that emotional trauma (and possible physical trauma) is terrible. Not to mention all the lost lives.

I am not sure, these days, that the US is very religious in a lot of places. While a lot of people consider themselves to be, it isn't like it was a few decades back. Sure the same is true of some European countries, too, though that doesn't seem to be the biggest factor. I would certainly place some of the blame on the media. I know here the kids are bombarded with sex in virtually everything. Commercials, programs geared for teens and kids, clothing, movies, books, and so forth. A lot of parents don't see any issue with that, either. Some actually encourage the kids to learn about sex at younger and younger ages. There is a movie called "Mean Girls" which shows a mother (only a little exaggerated, sadly) that is such a parent. Plus, the more aggressive sex ed programs here do, in my opinion, make things worse. I can compare when I was in school to when my eldest was, and the differences are pretty severe. In my day, the dress codes were pretty conservative. No shorts, no skirts too short, no halters, low cut shirts, etc. You were expected to dress decently. Her school, kids wore things I would not have worn to a nightclub in my younger days. In my day, you weren't allowed too close a contact with the opposite sex. Her school, they were allowing kids to neck in the hallways (or whatever they call it now). Literally. It was like the staff and teachers didn't care. More graphic and detailed sex ed, too. Now, while this one did behave in that regard, she wasn't an easy teen, and her later behavior hasn't always been the best. The teen at home now,who home schooled after 1'st grade? WAY different. Not at all obsessed with sex like a lot of guys that age are. Yes, he notices the girls. However, he isn't comfortable with heavy sex scenes in movies. He thinks porn is revolting (and I agree....and his dad does, too). I have a niece that home schooled as well, and she thinks all her "boy crazy" friends are nuts. She wants to focus on what she wants to do in life first. Says she isn't old enough to be worried about a guy. So it seems clear that what the kids learn (or don't) in school can make a difference. Maybe you are better off there with less aggressive programs! I would love to see a study wherein they sought the reasons for the reduced teen pregnancy rates. That said, the reduction in those rates in older women are disturbing (here, too). Lately, we are apparently not meeting replacement rates with pregnancies, and that isn't a good thing.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
I for one am sick and tired of seeing this agenda playing out. I'm not homophobic in any way whatsoever, I know gay people, but it is wrong to promote the idea that homosexuality is normal. We know it is not right, it is not natural. I may come across as contradictory with that but I honestly do not mind if someone is gay, but at the same time you cannot 'educate' children into thinking it is normal. We all know it is not normal and it almost certainly is not natural.

But it *is* normal and well documented in *many* species, including our own. Just because it doesn't lead to anything other than pleasure, doesn't mean it isn't "normal".

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I'm in Australia and they do have someone come to the schools and teach them a bit about religion once a week or what ever it is these days. I am not a church practicing catholic. I have studied the bible on and of for the past 5 years and have come to the decision that the bible isn't meant to be taken literally even though it does have some very good values which may be used in ones life.

The book to me is meant to be studied. Not just read at face value causing people to become verse reciting mental cases who think its OK to walk around to peoples homes dropping of pamphlets and converting people. They remind me of electrical company representatives trying to persuade you to change electric companys.

I disagree with the overall teaching in churches and society. People need to use their own minds and come to their own conclusions. If you sit in church, listen to a priest tell you his version of the book, you are not learning anything.. And don't forget to drop some money in the tin also

Well, I would have a problem with that myself, and we are a Christian family. Not Catholic, though, but that's a different issue. I don't have any problem with a private school teaching religion (as long as they aren't teaching violence, like some do), but that has no place in a public school! It is good that you are studying the Bible (in my opinion), and willing to consider it, but that is your choice. Should be the choice of you and your children, too. Best suggestion there is discuss it with them at home. Share what you believe, ask them what they believe, and let them know they have a right o decide themselves. I do accept the Bible as truth (not all literal - some is allegory, etc, but all accurate in one way or another) and I believe God gave us all the right to decide for ourselves, not to be brainwashed. My kids go to church, and enjoy it, and what they learn is God loves them. If the focus isn't there, it's in the wrong place, and love can't be forced. It should never be about the money, either!

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


Found some stats for the UK taken in 1990 and then another in 2000,I havn`t found any more recent surveys and not much here in Australia.

UK...

How many gay people are there in Britain?

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


Hmm... fair play. I have indeed seen 'Mean Girls', and yeah, the mum was fifty shades of over-the-top. I completely agree with you on the mass sexualisation of society. Although, I don't think it's to do with the eradication of traditional values per se (granted, I'm a liberal, irreligious, pro-choice egalitarian so I would say this lol) but really, I think the materialistic, commercial, overtly sexual world we live in is replacing the traditional Judeo-Christian West as the new status quo. It's easy to do this because women are still the sex objects, and men are still the relentless hunters. Why do I think this way, you might ask?

I graduated this summer. Some of the stuff I've heard and seen (I'm not completely chaste, but it's uni, there are actual reasons for going there) are heinous, filthy... debaucherous in nature. Backgrounds didn't matter; it was a jungle out there. The men, by and large, strove to conquer, and the women... they just had the decision of who to surrender to. Horrible, isn't it?

That being said, I still had several friends who, like me, had other aspirations and interests. We also came from diverse backgrounds, so there had to be something else that kept us largely disinterested in the free-for-all downtown in the nightclub district.

My Dad's an atheist, and has been since he was a teen. My Mum's... kind of a pantheist, like me. They gave me a rather comprehensive education about the birds and bees at the tender age of 11. They would be accepting if I suddenly said I fancied men. Nevertheless, they both told me where I could go if I got a girl pregnant. I'm 21 now, and they still say the same thing. So yes, sexualisation is a problem, but I think it's more about the media and entertainment sector, rather than the education sector. Europe, once again, is evidence of this.