"You shouldn't take medicine for mental illness"...

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posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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I realize that some people might think that psychiatry is some sort of conspiracy, but some of us can't be cured by happy thoughts, sunshine, vegetables and meditation. All that stuff might help, actually I think it does help but for some of us it's not going to do it alone.

I wonder if these people realize how hard it is to stay on meds. It does not help to be told that we don't need the medicine or that the medicine is bad. So many times I thought, "Hey, I feel good. I don't need these medicines, I'm cured!" So I'd stop taking all of my meds and I would feel okay for a few days and then it begins again...

Hearing voices coming from running water, voices coming from strangers in the store telling me terrible things I won't post here because they are triggering, disembodied voices talking to each other about me - my past - what I'm doing, feeling bugs crawling under my skin and in my joints, my family is trying to kill me, the people on the TV have no heads, I can hear Morse code from electricity, everything's in slow motion, everything's sped up. I'm not real. I'm dead. Nothing is real.

A big part of my ability to stay in the "real world" has been medicine. I have no doubt that some people can be stable without medication and I'm very happy for them, but please don't tell me that none of us really need the medicine or that the medicines are always bad because you've read a book or a website or because the person that does your nails said so. Please don't tell me that we choose to have mental illness either because even I'm not crazy enough to choose being a pariah.

We're all entitled to our opinions but sometimes even well meaning advice has the potential to help get someone seriously sick or even worse, dead.




posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by Miri08
 


I think what upsets me most about all of these armchair ATS doctors are that they also believe in "holistic" forms of medicine. Hol-Lis-Tic... I don't think they know what that word means.

Somatic actions can be medicine.
Food can be medicine.
Meditation can be medicine.
And...
MEDICINE CAN BE MEDICINE.

These are the same people who tell smokers that all they have to do is "chew on carrots" and they can quit just because they may have quit their 2-smokes-a-day habit that way. Many of these people will say they cured their illness without medication even though they were never diagnosed in the first place.

Holistic healing means considering all cures and treatments.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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Those people forget that we used to just kill mentally ill people or they would die on their own.

Or that it took a cumulation of 2000 years worth of trial and error science to even realize what medicine was.

I don't think they understand the tolerance or dedication it took to get to this point.
There is a reason we even have these medications developed in the first place.




posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 

Thank you!!! That's well stated. I consider myself to be pretty open minded and I'm all for trying a variety of things to help a person. I personally find that meditation helps me quite a lot, same with trying to think positive - so what if I have to use medication so that I don't have to live in a hospital? Is that such a terrible thing?


At least it feels good to complain about it lol.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by yourmaker
 


This is very true and even though there is still a stigma I thank my lucky stars that I'm living in this "time frame." Sometimes I want to tell them, "Ok take my medicine away if you're so against it but you have to live with me." I bet they give me my medicine back pretty quickly...



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by Miri08
 


Miri08,

I completely agree with your post. Mental illness has such a huge stigma about it, like we should be able to simply "get over it." Or, some folks assume taking a pill automatically "fixes" you.

Been on depression and anxiety meds most of my life. Right now I'm in a downward spiral again. I've been taking my meds, been exercising and eating right, it's just something that happens about every three or four years. I know what's in store for me, a tough year of re-finding myself. It hurts and hurts and hurts. But this pain will pass. I have faith and hope that it will.

Just know there are folks here who get it. We understand the pressure, the pain, the solitude, the confusion you are going through. We've heard the pep talks from people who just don't get it. We know how you feel, we re behind you and beside you. You are not alone.

Hugs to you.
smylee



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by Miri08
 

think about this, these "disturbances" are coming from criminals, spiritual criminals. there are non-human beings interferring with our realm, who are relentless and operate in their own interest. ask them, ask yourself, do they have reasons, justified reasons ? what is their intention and plan ?



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Thank you so much and I'm sorry to read that you are starting to have some troubles again. I'm glad that you have hope though. I do too and likewise, I am here for you if you need me and I know many others are too. It's just frustrating when some people tell you how to cure yourself when it's obvious they have no idea whatsoever and it worries me that some people will take that advice and then end up in a bad way.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by Miri08
 


I think that what many of these armchair psychiatrists don't understand is that when it comes to mental illness each case is individual and unique. There is no such thing as an "across the board" treatment for any particular illness. Yes, in some cases a more wholistic course of treatment performs wonders, but that is just not possible for everyone. Their "cousin's neighbor Bob" the bi-polar guy is not the same as my "Aunt Sue" the bi-polar lady. Maybe Bob responds to dietary supplements and a change of menu but Aunt Sue does not. Maybe Sue only gets any positive results from a combination of medication and exercise.

The only way these people's opinions are going to change is if they stop and realize that each and every person is unique and therefore their treatments have to be unique as well.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Miri08
 


I wouldnt for a second suggest you don't need your medication or that you're being fooled into believeing you require medication when in fact you don't anymore than I'd tell my girlfriend that she's needlessly medicating because her depression and anxiety aren't real when clearly after 8 years I know that it is.Likewise I wouldnt pay much attention if someone told me I didnt require steriods and treatment for asthma.

It is undoubtedly true that many people suffer from real,genuine debilitating mental illness and their medication is what helps them to function day to day.

It is also true though that the levels of people on longterm treatment for mental health issues has increased dramatically.

20 years ago I barely knew anyone either diagnosed or being treated for mental health problems.Now easily half the people I know are on some form of long term medication.Thats some increase !!!

You could say that detecting mental health has improved dramatically in the last 2 decades or you could suggest that the definition and scope of mental illness has widened to include emotional lows brought on by life which though can be tough are nonetheless part of the fabric of life.Sometimes it appears that mood stabilising/enhancing is reason enough for medication these days.

I would suggest that I know countless people who have gone to the doctor and 'played' the mental illness/anxiety card to get medication but more importantly signed off unfit to work and inceased benefits.I could do it myself but I'm too proud/honest to take that route.

The point is when normal but lazy folk are able to be diagnosed and treated for mental health issues that are feigned then surely that suggests the bar for qualifying has now been set too low.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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It used to be that the mentally ill were euthanized or locked away and lobotomized. Now, they just try to dump a handful of pills down their throats in the hopes that they will be able to feign the image of sanity.

Yet, there is no cure. And who knows what the exact cause for this mental degradation could be. If we could figure THAT out, we could stop the problem at the source.

Have we, as a species, begun to implode? Is our little hive starting to decay from the inside out?



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Miri08
 


Explanation: Uhmmm?


How about having some self dicipline and self control without the need to take medication!


Voices just say stuff and seeing stuff doesn't make you do anything unless you lack self dicipline and control.

PLEASE STOP ACTING OUT OF FEAR!

So what if the person serving you news has no head ... don't you want to know the news?

So what if the voice says your worthless ... don't you know better?

So what if your family is trying to kill you ... can't you call the cops with accurate evidence?

Personal Disclosure: I am legally insane and on medication ... however the principle noted above remains.

edit on 21-10-2012 by OmegaLogos because: Edited to fix spelling.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


Mr OL playing devils advocate ♥
The truth is, quite a few mental illnesses PREVENT people from having the discipline and control to ignore voices coming from the faucet. So while I do appreciate you (as always), its a point of view - its relative to "you", or anyone else it might work for, but people are different - brains are different.
If you don't believe me, go spend a week with someone who's full blown, unmedicated, schizophrenic.


 

Dear OP,
Screw them, and count your blessings - I wish there was a medication that worked for me, but so far the side effects are worse than the disease.
And while I DO AGREE that there are bad people involved in the industry of diagnosis and medication, who have only tangible/monetary intentions to benefit themselves..... the end in some cases, absolutely justify the means.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Miri08
 


Anything can be medicine... not just something in a bottle.

Also, I think most prescribed medicines do more harm than good, because they're over diagnosed... they're often given to people who don't need them. Same reason why 95% of people who take meds for ADD or ADHD aren't helped with the illness... well, that, and because ADD and ADHD aren't really disorders, so much as just hyper active character traits.

It's different if someone has something serious and incurable, like severe multiple personality disorder, or a combination of manic depressive and anxiety disorders. I have a few close friends like that. Those people, who can't seem to function or find their own balance, may need medication to get through every day life.

Some people need the medication, while others can do without it, even though they have lazy (or paid off) doctors who feed them pills and shuffle them out of their care rather than digging deeper and finding other ways for them to fix themselves.

The gray area is determining which people are which, and which disorders are legitimate.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Miri08
I realize that some people might think that psychiatry is some sort of conspiracy, but some of us can't be cured by happy thoughts, sunshine, vegetables and meditation. All that stuff might help, actually I think it does help but for some of us it's not going to do it alone.

I wonder if these people realize how hard it is to stay on meds. It does not help to be told that we don't need the medicine or that the medicine is bad. So many times I thought, "Hey, I feel good. I don't need these medicines, I'm cured!" So I'd stop taking all of my meds and I would feel okay for a few days and then it begins again...

Hearing voices coming from running water, voices coming from strangers in the store telling me terrible things I won't post here because they are triggering, disembodied voices talking to each other about me - my past - what I'm doing, feeling bugs crawling under my skin and in my joints, my family is trying to kill me, the people on the TV have no heads, I can hear Morse code from electricity, everything's in slow motion, everything's sped up. I'm not real. I'm dead. Nothing is real.

A big part of my ability to stay in the "real world" has been medicine. I have no doubt that some people can be stable without medication and I'm very happy for them, but please don't tell me that none of us really need the medicine or that the medicines are always bad because you've read a book or a website or because the person that does your nails said so. Please don't tell me that we choose to have mental illness either because even I'm not crazy enough to choose being a pariah.

We're all entitled to our opinions but sometimes even well meaning advice has the potential to help get someone seriously sick or even worse, dead.


I'm not sure how relevant this will be to you but another user brought this to my attention in a thread I goofed up, it talks about niacin being used to treat schizophrenia, and how high doses of vitamin B3 can be sued to treat mental disorders. Much better than taking some of those anti-psychotics that cause more problems, it's at least worth checking out.
credit for link Justbackawayslowly : articles.mercola.com...



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by Miri08
 

Psychiatry is, to an extent, a conspiracy. However.....whens the last time youve seen me tell people to not take their meds? Never. Thats for them to decide. I personally have not taken any long term prescription drugs in trn years. I was at one point on prozac, paxil at another...no freakin clue why. I do have tourettes syndrome.....it is technically a mental illness......but not the crazy kind. took drugs for years for it....not sure they ever helped. Im to a point now where most of my friends have no idea. And no dont vocalize words........thats a very rare thing. Oh yea and i have adhd. But thats not a mental illness, i am who i am and thats how it is....

But some people are totallllly off their rocker. Ive seen drugs help them. My step sister is one of these people.

One thing i never understood though....why do anti depressants exist? Maybe if tptb stopped making life suck soo much......



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by Forevever
 


I'm sorry you haven't found anything that's really helped - I do know that the side effects can be terrible, no denying that. It took years and years before I finally got on the right ones for me now. (sometimes I still have to have things adjusted) I can also agree that some psychiatrists are shady but some really do care and it's not just about a paycheck for the good ones. Sometimes it's very hard to find a good one! Most of my stuff started around 9 years old (it wasn't called schizo affective until later though) but schizophrenia and other mental illness does run in my biological family.

---
I want to thank everyone that replied to the thread. It was nice to vent (sometimes you just have to complain a little to feel better lol)



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 02:39 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

In my opinion this issue gets clouded and difficult to navigate for a few reasons... mostly due to people tending to want to paint with broad brush strokes.

Doctors, in my estimation, do tend to have a bad habit of automatically writing prescriptions these days. In my experience, the average general practitioner ( regular old Doc ) has fallen prey to the concept of mass production. Mine has an office that has to have 20-30 individual treatment rooms in it. Rooms that are always in rotation, and a waiting room that is full-up all of the time. I don't know how many patients he sees per day, but I do know it's way, way, way too many.

I think this leads many doctors to look for the quick fix. The easy answer. The five minute solution. Write a prescription, collect the office visit fee, move on the next room, rinse and repeat.

Unfortunately this results in a lot of people getting unnecessary medications rather than proper treatment.

The other broad brush stroke is the term "mental illness" and the unfathomable amount of misinformation about the subject.. even within the medical field. If you ever see a mental health patient in an ER... watch. Chances are, that patient is being ignored and will remain untreated until the doctors can hand the patient off. Even with things as simple as a panic attack or a person in emotional shock ( death in the family, ended relationship, etc ).

The reality is that things that they can fix with a pill - they rarely will. Things they can't fix with pills? They tend to throw pills at those problems. Why it is this way, I do not fully know. But it is reality.

Does a kid, slapped with a diagnoses of ADHD need meds? I have personally known a few kids on meds for this whose only real problem was lazy and disinterested parents... parents who wanted an "Instant angel - just add drugs". I have also seen a few kids who seriously needed meds but whose parents were hell bent upon them not getting "hooked" or "labeled"

The whole system is a mess.

For me, medication makes all the difference in the world - even if others cannot really see it. Without medication I am not that much different at all, externally. But internally I suffer and feel unbelievable physical and emotional pain, non stop. It is like living in Hell. With meds, I feel much less pain. At least less enough that I can focus, cope, and have some level of happiness and peace.

Those who would dispute my statement and call me "weak" or infer addiction, simply don't know the truth or understand what they're even saying. So I tend to dismiss it.

Some people on meds do not need them. Some people without meds do. And some of us are eternally grateful that we endured long enough to find the right meds. A journey that, in and of itself, took 26 years - in my case - and can be a very difficult road.

In summary... To make any all inclusive, general, blanket statements about mental health, efficacy or validity of medications, or whether or not they should be used - is folly. It's not a universal thing, it is an individual thing.

~Heff

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Yes, that's all very true. I do think that sometimes they don't know what to do and they just throw meds at people. Also the part about mentally ill in the ER. I do worry about young kids getting medicated and over medicated.

Also I can understand the part about the meds working on the inside even though externally people might not be able to tell. I'm not cured by any means - I'm stable or in other words I can live with myself and I want to live and also I am at a point now that I can recognize what's real and what's in my head.

Yes the problem really is making blanket assumptions and I suppose it's not just with mental illness, it can be with everything. I sometimes jump to generalizing things and people and have been working hard to get my self out of that mindset. Frankly, it can be very hard to do.



posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 05:17 AM
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Originally posted by Miri08
I realize that some people might think that psychiatry is some sort of conspiracy, but some of us can't be cured by happy thoughts, sunshine, vegetables and meditation. All that stuff might help, actually I think it does help but for some of us it's not going to do it alone.

I wonder if these people realize how hard it is to stay on meds. It does not help to be told that we don't need the medicine or that the medicine is bad. So many times I thought, "Hey, I feel good. I don't need these medicines, I'm cured!" So I'd stop taking all of my meds and I would feel okay for a few days and then it begins again...

Hearing voices coming from running water, voices coming from strangers in the store telling me terrible things I won't post here because they are triggering, disembodied voices talking to each other about me - my past - what I'm doing, feeling bugs crawling under my skin and in my joints, my family is trying to kill me, the people on the TV have no heads, I can hear Morse code from electricity, everything's in slow motion, everything's sped up. I'm not real. I'm dead. Nothing is real.

A big part of my ability to stay in the "real world" has been medicine. I have no doubt that some people can be stable without medication and I'm very happy for them, but please don't tell me that none of us really need the medicine or that the medicines are always bad because you've read a book or a website or because the person that does your nails said so. Please don't tell me that we choose to have mental illness either because even I'm not crazy enough to choose being a pariah.

We're all entitled to our opinions but sometimes even well meaning advice has the potential to help get someone seriously sick or even worse, dead.


I can appreciate your post coming from someone who has himself been diagnosed with one of the worst mental disorders. However I do feel you made some broad generalizations in your post. I am a firm believer that in some cases medication is in fact the best method. But keep in mind the number of these various "mental illness" labels increases at an astounding rate. Why?

For one we as humans love to label and name things we do not understand, it gives a warm feeling inside because we delude our self into believing just because we have "named" something we understand it. Also it gives those that have not been diagnosed with a "mental illness" the quite absurd notion that they are "sane".

Think about this for a moment. The DSM , The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders grows yearly at an ever increasing rate. The size of this thing is getting ridiculous compared to where it was only a few years ago.

Take for instance the most popular of these diagnoses Bi-Polar disorder. There is not one single test out there that offers any viable proof that people diagnosed with said disorder have a unbalanced level of serotonin in their brain. Yet somehow this has been integrating into our society to a point where we do not even question it. It has now become a "truth" we accept without one viable shed of evidence. We now diagnose children as young as 4 with this disorder, something these kids will ingest for God knows how long into their evolving bodies.

Back to the DSM.

Another reason this book of diagnoses keeps growing is because of the money factor. Pharmaceutical companies that make medications for these new disorders put patents on the ingredients. After so long a generic medication is then allowed to enter the market at a lower cost to the customer. When this happens, those companies profiting no longer make the cash they were.

What happens next is a new pill is introduced with a slight variant on some form of mental illness. The pharmaceutical companies then pay doctors to support/prescribe/diagnose people with the NEW disorder or medication. This medication will be a cash cow until the time come when the generic version is allowed to enter the market.

There is even a post on ATS along the lines of "I am Bi-Polar ask me questions". It is easy for them to sell us these various "labels" because we adopt them into our sense of self so easily.

I understand it is easy for psychiatry to prescribe a pill and send people out the door. Heck it is cheaper than having actual one on one conversation with another human being and trying to talk about our problems, but I don't believe that is an excuse for what psychiatry has morphed into.

Watch the news and you will see many commercials for anti depressants right after the evening news where they fill your mind with the saddest and most tragic stories they can find. The pharmaceutical industry is a billion dollar beast easily, yet funding for state mental health programs gets cut every year.

Just food for thought OP. And for someone who suffers from such a serious mental health disorder ATS is not a place conducive to healing.
edit on 22-10-2012 by AwakeANDreaming because: (no reason given)





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