Vatican release information on masons. Power struggle?

Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by JoshNorton

 

I kind of get the gist that going to a lodge would enhance your understanding and teach the word in a easily accessible way, so if there are no secrets, if someone is asking, can you teach what you learn at the lodge outside? So non masons can learn, or must you join, to gain the knowledge/understanding? Out of interest like, I mean, could you have a student who is not a mason?

Why waste the effort on someone not even willing to go to the lodge?

Isn't showing up worth something? I can work from home everyday if i so choose. But showing up....that means something, doesn't it? Like a display of commitment?

You don't always talk with your mouth. Sometimes your actions have a louder voice.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I was just going to edit and say something along them lines. No need. I understand, Thankyou Texan.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by JoshNorton

 

I kind of get the gist that going to a lodge would enhance your understanding and teach the word in a easily accessible way, so if there are no secrets, if someone is asking, can you teach what you learn at the lodge outside? So non masons can learn, or must you join, to gain the knowledge/understanding? Out of interest like, I mean, could you have a student who is not a mason?

Why waste the effort on someone not even willing to go to the lodge?

Isn't showing up worth something? I can work from home everyday if i so choose. But showing up....that means something, doesn't it? Like a display of commitment?

You don't always talk with your mouth. Sometimes your actions have a louder voice.

Than this comes right back to the fact that there are indeed some "secrets" which are kept from the uninitiated.... and not everything can be found in books or in the public domain. I don't think it helps to have such contradictory explanations.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Than this comes right back to the fact that there are indeed some "secrets" which are kept from the uninitiated.... and not everything can be found in books or in the public domain. I don't think it helps to have such contradictory explanations.

No, I still maintain that they're not secret. But there is a difference between reading something and experiencing it first hand, and unless you go through the degrees yourself in a lodge, the book-knowledge will still be lacking something.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

The "knowledge" is not kept from anyone. Find a lodge. Join. Then teach your own children.

Here's something I've said once before: I don't need to be a rocket scientist to learn rocket science.

And that's the sad part really; a certain segment wants everything served-up to them on a platter by those who've taken the time and shown the interest to do the work themselves. Freemasonry is but one way to be a better man, a better citizen, etc.; nobody within the Craft has ever claimed it's the only way.

If you can do it by yourself or within your own Faith, bully for you; you're better than most are

Fitz

reply to post by JoshNorton


Why should you have to go through a lodge to learn it, swear an oath, and pledge a legiance? Why can it not be taught to those seeking without them giving up their free will? If you can't share when others ask and have to point them to a lodge, your being controlled, no?

Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by JoshNorton

 

Out of interest like, I mean, could you have a student who is not a mason?

No. That's not how it works. That said, if joining to educate yourself seems too intimidating then perhaps it isn't for you anyway

Fitz

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

But i was interested enough to find out what it was all about. And once i started reading a little, doing a little research, i discovered that all the secrets were common sense, if you took the time to think about it. Just put your ego aside and be a better person.

Good luck on that 'putting your ego aside' thing especially in this day and age. But yes, you're right; on the main it is common sense and for the most part, it revolves around lessons that we've all been taught since we were able to walk.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Then I figured that they were kept "secret" was simply because nothing is more frustrating than having someone whine about being thirsty, but not taking a drink of the water you offer them. Maddening, to be honest. In my experience as a manager, i quickly had to learn to quit trying so hard to save employees that didn't want saving. It wasn't like I was keeping how to be a better employee secret from them. They just had to show up to work to find out.

Same with masonism. It isn't a secret. You just have to go find out.

Agreed. [niggle] It's Masonry[/niggle]

Fitz

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


I call it "Masonism" because "masonry" is what I have on my house.

reply to post by Wifibrains


The Vatican guard the door to occult knowledge. Occult, as in 'hidden', usually deep philosophical issues and the very beginnings of science using those philosophies. The Freemasons have studied that knowledge for centuries. It was during that time that the Roman Catholics decided they didn't want to give the people that kind of power, for whatever reason.

Originally posted by Zakkor
reply to post by Wifibrains

 

The Vatican guard the door to occult knowledge. Occult, as in 'hidden', usually deep philosophical issues and the very beginnings of science using those philosophies. The Freemasons have studied that knowledge for centuries. It was during that time that the Roman Catholics decided they didn't want to give the people that kind of power, for whatever reason.

It works.

We are not deserving of this power. If everyone has it we are all equal and there is no power as such.

Originally posted by Zakkor
The Vatican guard the door to occult knowledge. Occult, as in 'hidden', usually deep philosophical issues and the very beginnings of science using those philosophies. The Freemasons have studied that knowledge for centuries. It was during that time that the Roman Catholics decided they didn't want to give the people that kind of power, for whatever reason.

Nah, the way I see it, Freemasonry teaches that all men who believe in God should treat each other as equal brothers, regardless of their specific faith. It's in the Vatican's best financial interest to say that the only way to heaven is through them. So Freemasonry (the idea of equality) goes against the Vatican's interests, so it should be persecuted and made to look evil.

reply to post by Wifibrains

The article does list many things done by the Church (such as the Papal Bulls) against Freemasonry, but I don't know who runs the website. The intolerant, the unjust, the tyrannical, the fascist, and the oppressive have always opposed Freemasonry.

Most of the article is filled with the Papal Bulls and nasty, unsubstantiated propaganda. I don't know how the Catholic Church can put out this crap when lying is a sin.

Some of their facts are little out of date, misconstrued, or just wrong.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

How are Freemasons corrupt like the Catholic Church?

reply to post by Wifibrains

We don't care about "exposing" the Catholic Church. It is them who has a problem with us, not the other way around. We allow Catholics to join and I know a handful who have.

reply to post by Wifibrains

What's wrong with secrecy?

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

These awkward handshakes show nothing Masonic nor does giving an awkward handshake show if someone is a Mason. This is an illogical assertion.

reply to post by JoshNorton

Hell Brother, they can find it online for free now.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” Jiddu Krishnamurti

Originally posted by Fineousstitch
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” Jiddu Krishnamurti

Great quote. Along the lines of my favorite Franklin quote, "Where there is liberty, that is my country."

Masonic lodges are as innocuous as your local cathedral, which their progenitors likely erected~

The fallacy here in assuming they (Masons) have no secrets based on local lodges happenings is like saying the Church has no secrets because my local steeple is filled with good people...
There are secrets within the pinnacle, which we as attendants on this site will never have access to - anymore than we would get by attending a sunday church and asking the parishioner to open their vaults.

Actually this thread is not about the possibility of certain organizations good/misdeeds...indeed we are talking about the release of documents, their potential truth value and purpose - which in all outcomes is to balance power!

∞LOVE
mayallsoulsbefree∞

Honestly, threads such as these belie the inherent laziness of those who live to lob unfounded assertions at groups they're too lazy to actually investigate. Too many come repeating the same lies and half-truths that have been thoroughly debunked time and time and time again. If you honestly believe that Freemasonry has some inherently evil intentions at its core jealously guarded by a cabal, FFS join to expose them to the harsh light of day! It isn't as if it's difficult or expensive.

Put in the time, rise to the point you believe the true secrets are held. Gather these secrets up unto yourself and then by all means broadcast them hither and nigh to prove Freemasonry to be as corrupt as you now as a fearless InvestiGoogler surmise it to be. You'd be doing the Craft and the world in general a great favour.

But you know what? It won't happen! Why not? Because tl;dr is their watchword. Because if conspiracy theorists are too lazy to use the search function on a site dedicated to conspiracy theories and avail themselves of the knowledge easily found, does anyone really think that they'll put in the decade or so of effort to rise in the various degrees, maybe join the officer rotation in a lodge and sit in the East and eventually become a Past Master?


Forget it! It's too much like work!

Fitz

I think the above poster was just adding his opinion and trying to bring the thread back on topic, and that was, is the Vatican trying to tarnish the masons, Or are they just releasing secrets?

My opinion is that the information released is more to do with the illuminati, but I have heard in other conspiracey theories the the illuminati is a circle inside the Freemasons, outsiders, Freemasons, will know nothing of it unless invited, so good Freemasons are actualy masking the dark core, which is money and power hungry.

It's a conspiracey I know but this document "officially" (if its from the Vatican) publicly ties the two.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


To reiterate - a single Masonic lodge represents all of Masonry, little more than a single Mason represents the entire lodge.
This is not a matter of good merit and achieving levels (nor is it due diligence in internet searches) as there are secrets which only few are selected to be exposed to and this based not on level, or degree at all.
Additionally, no mention was ever made in above post regarding such secrets being malicious - these are societies which do good in their community and are immersed in esoterica...surely there is but 1 secret...but we will never know?

∞LOVE
mayallsoulsbefree∞

My turn !

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