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Vatican release information on masons. Power struggle?

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posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 06:44 AM
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I just came a cross this, it has Pope Benedict XV, reigned as Pope from 3 September 1914 to 22 January 1922 is this released under vatican authority? I thought this to be very strange, Is there a struggle for power going on?

It sounds like the Vatican are trying to tarnish the masons, pot, kettle?


Modern Masonry was founded in London in 1717 when four small Masonic lodges united to become the Grand Lodge of England. Subsequently, in 1736, the first Masonic Lodge in Europe, the Grand Orient Lodge in Paris, was founded. Freemasonry known also as the Craft or the Brotherhood, was no longer a guild of operative stone masons who had built Europe's great Catholic cathedrals, It had become a collection of intellectuals who out of pride valued reason over faith which in turn led to a descent into the spiritual darkness of self-deification.


willingshepherds.org...

It's a pretty long article, is anyone able to confirm this came from the Vatican?

Peace, wifi
edit on 21-10-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 07:40 AM
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It had become a collection of intellectuals who out of pride valued reason over faith which in turn led to a descent into the spiritual darkness of self-deification.

They're both as prideful, corrupt, and idiotic as each other. This is like the presidential debates!



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


I agree, little men and their big ideas.

As times are a changing, and these factions struggle for control they will turn on and expose each other for what they really are, creating their own demise.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by Wifibrains
 



As times are a changing, and these factions struggle for control they will turn on and expose each other for what they really are, creating their own demise.

Ehhh.... we can only hope.

And in this world hope doesn't amount to much.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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I only wish I was good enough to judge that which I know not a damn thing about.

Slag away.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by Wifibrains
I just came a cross this, it has Pope Benedict XV, reigned as Pope from 3 September 1914 to 22 January 1922 is this released under vatican authority? I thought this to be very strange, Is there a struggle for power going on?

It sounds like the Vatican are trying to tarnish the masons, pot, kettle?


Modern Masonry was founded in London in 1717 when four small Masonic lodges united to become the Grand Lodge of England. Subsequently, in 1736, the first Masonic Lodge in Europe, the Grand Orient Lodge in Paris, was founded. Freemasonry known also as the Craft or the Brotherhood, was no longer a guild of operative stone masons who had built Europe's great Catholic cathedrals, It had become a collection of intellectuals who out of pride valued reason over faith which in turn led to a descent into the spiritual darkness of self-deification.


willingshepherds.org...

It's a pretty long article, is anyone able to confirm this came from the Vatican?

Peace, wifi
edit on 21-10-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)


I can't confirm it for fact but it sounds about par for the course for the Vatican.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


I mean no disrespect to you personally sir. You are more than your organisation. Hear it as a human not a freemason.

Question, if I may... Why the secrecy?
edit on 21-10-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by network dude
 


I mean no disrespect to you personally sir. You are more than your organisation. Hear it as a human not a freemason.

Question, if I may... Why the secrecy?
edit on 21-10-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)


Would you have understood how to calculate the slope intercept formula when you were in first grade learning addition? Do you accuse your teacher of secrecy for knowing that you would not grasp it in first grade, and just leaving it for a later lesson to be given when you have prepared your own intellect?

ETA: i am not a mason. I know a fair amount about esoterica, though. There is no real secret in masonry that I have found. The "secrets" relate more to the way the "program" works. Is it a secret if you are discussing circles with someone, and they choose to not discuss the 90 degree angle?
edit on 21-10-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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Erm, I'm not sure where that's coming from, are you saying they are my leaders, teachers? And I should not be questioning what they do and let them get on with leading and teaching me?

If you haven't noticed, society is morally impaired. Just so happens that leaders and teachers teach us more than we teach each other on the whole... Go figure



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Wifibrains
Erm, I'm not sure where that's coming from, are you saying they are my leaders, teachers? And I should not be questioning what they do and let them get on with leading and teaching me?

If you haven't noticed, society is morally impaired. Just so happens that leaders and teachers teach us more than we teach each other on the whole... Go figure


I didn't think I buried that in too much metaphor. Perhaps this is why you don't understand masonism....it is steeped in metaphor.

Let me simplify: you become a mason to learn a different viewpoint on being a human. You are taught this viewpoint via metaphors. And the system is built on a metaphor, as you cannot put the top row of bricks on a wall until you have built the wall beneath it.

This top row of bricks....you are calling them "secrets". They aren't secret....you just haven't built yourself to the point to get to them. Intellectually.

And no one ever says that the top row of bricks is hidden from view. They are just obscured a little. This is the "secrets" of masonism. They are there for you to see, in plain view. You just lack the perspective to get a really good look at them. Try building yourself up a bit and see if your perspective changes.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 09:12 AM
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Therefore, no matter what Masons claim about their good works or intentions, they cannot be believed. They are the Church's diabolical enemy.

Here's something that will make this thread great fun.
Note the classic masonic thumb-on-knuckle shake.
Seems like nearly every Pope has been his own "diabolical enemy".








edit on 21/10/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)
edit on 21/10/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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I did that already, I looked a certain symbols deeply and understood myself through certain simple geometric shapes, metaphorically looking at my being, actions and understanding. It doesn't awnser the questions as to why we are not taught these things at the earliest oppertunity, when very complex things can be explained and understood so easily. Not giving people knowledge can be seen as keeping people in the dark, Hmmmm, I love metaphors.

On the whole I understand, realising god cannot be taught, it would not be god, you have to find it from your own free will. This would be the only reason I could think of as keeping it secret and not teaching it to all, but place it in veiw for those seeking.



edit on 21-10-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by Wifibrains
I did that already, I looked a certain symbols deeply and understood myself through certain simple geometric shapes, metaphorically looking at my being, actions and understanding. It doesn't awnser the questions as to why we are not taught these things at the earliest oppertunity, when very complex things can be explained and understood so easily. Not giving people knowledge can be seen as keeping people in the dark, Hmmmm, I love metaphors.

On the whole I understand, realising god cannot be taught, it would not be god, you have to find it from your own free will. This would be the only reason I could think of as keeping it secret and not teaching it to all, but place it in veiw for those seeking.



edit on 21-10-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)


The "knowledge" is not kept from anyone. Find a lodge. Join. Then teach your own children.

Do you think it is the job of someone to save humanity? If so, then you need to go back and look at your shapes and geometry some more.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by Wifibrains
I did that already, I looked a certain symbols deeply and understood myself through certain simple geometric shapes, metaphorically looking at my being, actions and understanding. It doesn't awnser the questions as to why we are not taught these things at the earliest oppertunity, when very complex things can be explained and understood so easily. Not giving people knowledge can be seen as keeping people in the dark, Hmmmm, I love metaphors.

On the whole I understand, realising god cannot be taught, it would not be god, you have to find it from your own free will. This would be the only reason I could think of as keeping it secret and not teaching it to all, but place it in veiw for those seeking.



edit on 21-10-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)


You edited your response while i was typing. What you added....that seems to show you "get it". Pretty much put it in a nutshell right there. No need to look at any more shapes. LOL



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 



The "knowledge" is not kept from anyone. Find a lodge. Join. Then teach your own children.

Here's something I've said once before: I don't need to be a rocket scientist to learn rocket science.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Chaotic order just answered for me, lol. And you already said that's your stance in not so many words.

Peace,

Please no masons take offence at what I said, I meant the ideas they create as a brotherhood for bissness, not your thoughts.
I believe in unity and all that but secret societies unite by dividing themselves from society, creating seperation. Let's all play nicely together I say.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 



The "knowledge" is not kept from anyone. Find a lodge. Join. Then teach your own children.

Here's something I've said once before: I don't need to be a rocket scientist to learn rocket science.
And you don't need to be a Freemason to learn the lessons of Freemasonry. Duncan's Ritual has been in print for something like 300 years. You can walk into any mainstream bookstore and buy a copy, or read it for free online from dozens of sites. What you won't get from reading it, though, is the first-hand experience of going through the ritual.
edit on 2012.10.21 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by Wifibrains
Please no masons take offence at what I said, I meant the ideas they create as a brotherhood for bissness, not your thoughts.
I believe in unity and all that but secret societies unite by dividing themselves from society, creating seperation. Let's all play nicely together I say.
No, still not getting it, though you were pretty close a few posts above...

The very first question you're asked when you come into the lodge for the first time is "Is it of your own free will & accord you make the request?"

You can't teach something to someone who doesn't want to learn. There aren't any secrets. In fact, the knowledge has been out there for hundreds of years in a variety of forms, but if you don't get off your ass to pay attention to it, you will forever remain ignorant to it. The only way to make self-improvement is to want to.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


I kind of get the gist that going to a lodge would enhance your understanding and teach the word in a easily accessible way, so if there are no secrets, if someone is asking, can you teach what you learn at the lodge outside? So non masons can learn, or must you join, to gain the knowledge/understanding? Out of interest like, I mean, could you have a student who is not a mason?



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 



The "knowledge" is not kept from anyone. Find a lodge. Join. Then teach your own children.

Here's something I've said once before: I don't need to be a rocket scientist to learn rocket science.


Exactly.

I am not a mason. Never talked to a mason in person about masonism. I have talked to masons online, but not to any extent about their ideology (as i try to respect their desire to keep the "secrets" the way they are, for the reasons they do).

But i was interested enough to find out what it was all about. And once i started reading a little, doing a little research, i discovered that all the secrets were common sense, if you took the time to think about it. Just put your ego aside and be a better person.

Then I figured that they were kept "secret" was simply because nothing is more frustrating than having someone whine about being thirsty, but not taking a drink of the water you offer them. Maddening, to be honest. In my experience as a manager, i quickly had to learn to quit trying so hard to save employees that didn't want saving. It wasn't like I was keeping how to be a better employee secret from them. They just had to show up to work to find out.

Same with masonism. It isn't a secret. You just have to go find out.





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