Reincarnation, What do you believe?

In nature, everything recycles and migrates. A plant releases seeds into the air not to be absorbed into other plants, but to become other plants. Water gets evaporated and falls back to Earth as water, not fire and Legos. Why would your soul (or whatever feel comfortable calling it) be the exception in the natural flow of life? Reincarnation should be the default belief since it follows the year cycle and the life circle. Saying it just gets absorbed into its surroundings seems to be the hard-to-swallow theory.

reply to post by Cuervo


@ Cuervo

Good observation. I have read most of all posted here and I guess it all depends upon what a person believes logical. Most bibles explain this to me as the physical body being of a different substance than a spiritual body. A soul is a spiritual body. The physical body comprises the earthly elements and just as you have said, they eventually return to these earthly elements only to be recycled.

Terrestrial matter has many forms and substances such as water, earth, atmosphere, etc. Dirt retains its own substances and so does water even though the elements in the dirt and in the water do vary from one place to another. Living flesh have these same differences but when that flesh loses its spark of life it then reverts back into the substance from which it came. That spark of life is the key to our understanding and that understanding varies from one person to another.

It seems to me that biology does have a presentable handle on the terrestrial explanation but nothing on the spiritual aspect. This may because the spiritual aspect of this is not comprehended by our five senses. Most all of our evidence is in books or beliefs of others who lived before us and who put their ideas in these books that we reference. But that is not provable fact. At best that is individual beliefs.

In the Genesis account God made man in His image and after his likeness. Some ancients believe this as man having two distinct parts of existence. Those being the terrestrial substance which is the image and the spiritual substance as being the likeness. Christianity also verifies this belief in saying that -- "1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Now after all is said and done, it is the spiritual portion (soul) that we are concerned with in the subject of reincarnation. This is the portion of existence that we only guess and not have facts. The substance of soul is and probably will never be known by science but when examining spirit we therefore cannot compare terrestrial substance with spirit substance. That would be like comparing dirt with water. It takes dirt and water to create terrestrial life and dirt alone cannot create terrestrial life and neither can water alone do the same. The same is true with a human body. The human body takes terrestrial substance with spiritual substance to function as it is today just as a tree consists of water and dirt.

But then what makes the tree a tree? A tree consists of only terrestrial elements and is assigned its life form by the terrestrial elements. A terrestrial tree will not reincarnate any more that a terrestrial human will reincarnate. It takes that spiritual spark of life for a spirit to resurrect. It is not the terrestrial elements that resurrect but the spiritual elements that resurrect.

True Christianity does not teach reincarnation but does teach resurrection of the spirit. Reincarnation is actually re birth and resurrection is also re birth but is the meaning in your mind the same? No, it is not the same. Reincarnation is the rebirth of the flesh with the same consciousness but resurrection is the rebirth of the spirit with the same consciousness.

Christianity dictates that when the terrestrial body ceases to function that the celestial body leaves the terrestrial body and is contained in the spiritual substance as a conscious entity. This is not resurrection yet. The spiritual body is then judged as to be allowed to become a celestial entity. If the spiritual body meets the requirements of resurrection, it is then allowed into the celestial realm. That is called true resurrection. If the spiritual body does not meet the requirements of resurrection it is contained as a conscious spirit in the earth. In either case it is not eligible for reincarnation.

Now after all of this spiel, I haven't really explained a thing concerning reincarnation because it is a matter of the individual's belief. To believe that the earthly elements are simply recycled is not even common sense if you do not include the spark of life which is really the consciousness or spiritual entity of that same earthly body. In either case you must consider both.

Originally posted by sled735
Originally posted by badgerpit
reply to post by ascension211

 

We do retain it in our subconscious. This is how people recall past lives during hypnosis. But it would hold us back from learning the lessons we came for in this life if we could remember it. If we remembered everything from each past life consciously, we would have too much "baggage" to drag around. We would all be suicidal!

Thank you for your input. I was evaluating your perceptions evenly until I read this part of your descriptions. There are several points/observations that I would like to address.

First, I don't know much about the sub-conscious but if it is a true statement that the memory of our past lives is stored in this aspect of our mind/consciousness, then why is there no attempt by main stream sciences to retrieve this knowledge? Gaining the knowledge of all our pasts would greatly deepen our understanding of history and of life itself. I have not heard much, if any, research done to extract this information so how are you sure that such information is stored in the sub-conscious?

Second, you claim that knowing the information of the past would hold you back from learning the lessons of the present. This seems a misstep in logic to me. In this lifetime, after a man learns to walk and then has a tragic accident where he has to learn how to walk again; is he moving forward with his lessons by re-learning something that he already knew? Re-learning something that you have already learned hardly seems productive. If the body is just a vehicle for the spirit then the focus should be on the spirit and not the body. For instance, would you clean out all your memory every time you bought a car so you can only have memory of that new car experience and dispense of all memory from your previous car? No one in their right mind would agree to this because the car is not whats important, the driver is. Plus, remembering all of your experience of your previous cars only adds to your understanding of driving and vehicles in general. Can you imagine how it would be if you had to re-learn how to drive every time you were ready for a new car?

Your last point is what got me though, 'we would have too much "baggage" to drag around. We would all be suicidal!'. I think I understand what you were eluding to, but the idea does not stick with me. Are you suggesting that horrible experience of previous lives would haunt a present life? If so, I understand why you would think that, but perspective is a powerful tool if used correctly. I do not think that bad experience would retain its potency if it was known and understood that a spirit is eternal. A bad physical experience would fade into nothing when it is standing next to a spirit that has endured eternity. My point is that if 'knowledge is power' then losing memory does not benefit us.

We are programmed at an early age to focus all our attention on our physical selves, but our physical selves are not who we are. Our bodies are transport vehicles for our consciousness and deserves enough attention to be maintained but I feel our society has placed all levels of importance on them. All you have to do is walk by a magazine rack to understand my point.

reply to post by ascension211


whant my input on reincarnation? you might not like it thought! (check Raymond Drake books! about ancient astraunauts)

i think it's Soul raping at his best! What god does best, what is happening here on earth is being done to countless other carbon based planets!

Why one need to reincarnate? What properties a 3rd density body has! it is a battery! It catalyse Energy in using your EGO and multiply it by thousandfolds by transforming it into emotions!

Fear is a very strong traumatizing emotion. Wich leaves Trapped emotions! When you die, your soul carry all that "pain" (dark energy) and it's brought foward to God and his minions torturing your soul to it's last drop of Dark energy! Then they Format your soul and send it back on earth! Having no memory of your past life!


Formating isn't perfect! it leaves things here and there, (Corrupted data). Which makes you wonder what those images are sometime!

Why so many souls are angry and sad when they are new born? Because their soul still feels what just recently happened to them!

Earth is being used a Soul Farm by Dark entites to feed on our emotions! Either it be love or Fear!

Why are we being pulled by a light beam with joyful noise as we die? because, most people that live in fear would just let go in front of joyful music! (it's basic psychology). That light is a Spectral Tractor beam running at a frequency on which make you feel joyfull! (Ever known that Haarp can do such things, like make you pissed or calm or joyful!)

All that Fear, pain and suffering we gone throguht all of our life, we should return them the favour and use that dark energy against them!

See how much HATE that God can handle!

allright! rant over! much love... (yeah im sarcastic). (not the god love, but the real love)

Always love these threads.... Thanks OP.... I will tell ya what I think.

Briefly stating....

Im certain the human experience matters in this game. The human experience cannot always be shunned to the side while we await science to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what some of us already know.

Im certain reincarnation is a fact. We continue for all of eternity experiencing life. Just the way it is.

We merely transform and what makes me upset is the fact the ancients knew this. We have been dumbed down and I can sit here and tell ya..... all the lies can be followed back to Rome.

Don't believe me? Thats ok with me... no hard feelings.

Research for twenty years as I have and then let me know what your research turns up. It will be enough to write several thick books, Im sure.

reply to post by fight back


Have you ever watched Long Island Medium? lol

Im only asking because she has never said "Your loved one says their soul is being farmed, can you help them out"?

Im not saying you are wrong.... its an entertaining and quite spooky idea, just not so sure its really going on as you state.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by fight back

 

Have you ever watched Long Island Medium? lol

Im only asking because she has never said "Your loved one says their soul is being farmed, can you help them out"?

Im not saying you are wrong.... its an entertaining and quite spooky idea, just not so sure its really going on as you state.

What i beleive would really help on this world is that people learn to Know themselves as Well as they claim to Know "god".

idolatry has never made anything constructive in the long term!

I don't exactly believe in the common definition of Reincarnation - the belief that our souls get reborn into something else on this planet when we die. Or at least, I don't think that it is as clear cut as that.

My feelings are that when we die, our consciousness awakens on another plane and we continue to 'live' there (whether we realise it or not, I don't know).

I think the energy that my body created whilst it was alive here on earth is used by nature in various ways but I believe that I would not be aware of it because 'I' (my consciousness) am off in another dimension/on another plane beginning another journey.

To complicate matters though, I do believe that we are all one, so perhaps the feeling that some people get, that we have lived many lives, is because we actually have (in the sense that we are all connected and so we can tap into the collective consciousness and remember experiencing another life just as if it were our own ....)

...uh. Now I have brain ache

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by fight back

 

Have you ever watched Long Island Medium? lol

Im only asking because she has never said "Your loved one says their soul is being farmed, can you help them out"?

Im not saying you are wrong.... its an entertaining and quite spooky idea, just not so sure its really going on as you state.

i could not help but realise your avatar!.... look at the Halo over the angel head! Does that look like niburu the destroyer to you?

Why is it that god has a Gate of haven? to protect from who? Or to prevent who from Getting out of h-EA-ven.

Why is it that Angels are the only ones to have Halos over their head? Why god does not have any?

A ring, could this be the mark of the beast? Spiritual enslavment?

reply to post by fight back


That is a dark tale, but who is to say that the 'light at the end of the tunnel' that is reported over and over again by near death survivors isn't some sort of technology that we just don't understand (or have forgotten)?

If such a thing exists, would we need to re-examine our interpretations to what 'heaven' and 'God' mean to our society? Most likely. Considering the overall negative impact they both have had here, I can't think this is a bad thing to do anyways.

reply to post by badgerpit


Wow. That was nearly the most sober and non-emotionally charged defense of "resurrection vs reincarnation" that I've ever heard.

As you said, it comes down to personal belief. I see it as an "as above, so below" process that I feel imitates the cycle of the year while you see it as a linear process with a definite terminating point. The comforting thing to me is that both outcomes promise an immortal soul.

reply to post by ascension211


Great thread friend =] I am a huge believer in stuff like this, as soon as im past the 20 post limit my first thread is going to tackle all of this and the full extent of how man has distorted the truth of the scriptures.

I just wanted to say that i believe in the classic hindu, that we are reincarnated a certain amount of times until we unite with the lord and during these lives we ascend and descend depending on our need for growth, and i believe there must be a threshold between human and animal, because human is a whole mass of possibilities so it will be very specific and you may have to go through many animal lives and many human lives on top of that:

anyway, I think reincarnation could explain homosexuality and transexualism, as well as natural talent for things that some people have and some dont

for example

If you were a woman in your past life, and you were a bit of a slut, then you get reincarnated as a man, you'll probably have some latent femininity (campness) and love penis, or if you were a mans man, a proper steak & beer & football man, and got reincarnated as a woman? might either go lesbian or get a sex change huh?

and if you were jimi hendrix in a past life, then you might get born as one of those guys whos really good at guitar just naturally huh?


Just thought id pitch in =]

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by badgerpit

 

Wow. That was nearly the most sober and non-emotionally charged defense of "resurrection vs reincarnation" that I've ever heard.

As you said, it comes down to personal belief. I see it as an "as above, so below" process that I feel imitates the cycle of the year while you see it as a linear process with a definite terminating point. The comforting thing to me is that both outcomes promise an immortal soul.

Thanks! (I think) lol.

Just one note; I do not see things so neatly cut as a linear process with termination points. The fact is I just don't know and I am extremely comfortable with this notion because this leaves any and all other ideas open for me to explore as possible explanations to anything. That may sound like an easy exit to an argument but I ask that if what I just said is so easy, then why do most people have a tough time saying 'I...don't...know'.

There is an absurd amount of conviction to people's notions of truth out there. I do not think this is necessarily a good thing. As far as I am concerned, everything is possible until it is not possible.

reply to post by ascension211


This is all I can say for cerian...

Himmler did a set of experiments involving bringing corpses that were over a week old back to life. He succeeded, the result however was cornerstone for zombies. After the dead had been awakened he found that they had no conciousness, or recelection of their life. They were essentially empty vessels.

Now a long time before that Davinci had done experiments where he had weighed a human body before death then disected and weighed the parts of the human body after the person had passed. What he found was that there was no weight difference between the two. So he concluded that if there was a soul that it had to be wieghtless. Physics tells us that something that has no mass is also unaffected by time and space.

With that being said i'm not positive that reincarnation happens, but for the current "blueprint" of our souls, it would seem like the most appropriate way to keep the cycle of life going, instead of fabrcating a couple thousand souls a day, and finding a place to store them all for eternity.

What I had hoped to accomplish, by posting this thread topic, has been beyond my hopes. You have all given thought to this and responded with many different views. I appreciate all the different ideas posed and want to encourage more discussion on this matter because I think it benefits us all to have as much information as possible to make informed decisions about life and consciousness. The underlining desire is to not let fear of what we do not know control how we feel about each other. LOVE is the answer to conquering all. There are different levels of vibrational harmonic resonance that we will all achieve individually as well as collectively. I happen to believe we are reaching a point in our collective consciousness that is going to culminate in a greater vibrational harmonic resonance for us all. The Earth is a very small part of a much greater picture. Would you all accept that for truth?
We are in a solar system, rotating around a star, while Earth rotates on it's axis with a moon attached to it that effects it's magnetic energy 24 hours a day 365 a years, with several other celestial bodies connected to each other through an invisible energy (magnetic), all rotating around the SUN, in a galaxy with other solar systems and other planets, etc. Pure energy attached to each other, affected by each other, each with their own trials and tribulations to overcome, daily, monthly, yearly, etc. Sound like it is possible? Reduce the picture to your own individuality and do you see the point I am trying to get across? We all effect each other and our energy, levels change rapidly because we are also affected by the surrounding energy in our collective universe.

Reincarnation, is defined this way by this particular dictionary as being what they think it means:

1. the belief that on the death of the body the soul transmigrates to or is born again in another body 2. the incarnation or embodiment of a soul in a new body after it has left the old one at physical death 3. embodiment again in a new form, as of a principle or idea

Semantics, is defined this way by the same dictionary source:

1. the branch of linguistics that deals with the study of meaning, changes in meaning, and the principles that govern the relationship between sentences or words and their meanings 2. the study of the relationships between signs and symbols and what they represent 3. logic a. the study of interpretations of a formal theory b. the study of the relationship between the structure of a theory and its subject matter c. (of a formal theory) the principles that determine the truth or falsehood of sentences within the theory, and the references of its terms

I think there are many ways to say the same thing.


Maybe you can not be reincarnated if pure energy does not die. If it is recycled, did it really die. No. The reason we have this issue is because of the vessels we are in right now. They cease to operate and therefore we attached a word to it, death. We have rituals associated with it and feelings or emotions attached to it and different philosophies surrounding it. Why not call it rebirth, or dare I say ascension? If a plastic bottle gets recycled we think nothing of it because to us that is just a inanimate object we discard and think nothing of it, but even that plastic bottle has energy attached to it, everything we touch gets a part of our energy and when it is recycled becomes another form of energy with our energy still attached and gets passed along to another who attaches their energy to it, etc. This is why we have a greater responsibility to be aware of our own feelings and emotions and how we can affect others with free will and how they can affect us.

True love is very hard to find or have for others or even ourselves, but it starts with each individual. You can not have true love for another, if you do not have true love for yourself first. even though we are human in this existence we are souls first. We all have the ability to be aware of a higher power and a greater existence we are attached to. This is what gives me the ability to feel the way I do feel. Ego is what controls the world we inhabit now, Love is what controls our soul, our heart regulates and our brain contemplates while we do our part to utilize the abilities we all have to coexist.

Thank you all for indulging me, and take care. Much LOVE to all who have taken the time to read and participate and even those that did not.

Remember, we are all in this together regardless of how we perceive our existence. There is only one truth.


Sincerely,

Ascension211

Reply to badgerpit,

First, I don't know much about the sub-conscious but if it is a true statement that the memory of our past lives is stored in this aspect of our mind/consciousness, then why is there no attempt by main stream sciences to retrieve this knowledge?

Maybe because the main stream sciences are too closed-minded to consider this? It would "rock their world" to prove the body has a real soul that continues after death? I don't know why they don't study it. That is a question they need to answer, but I have read several books where people have been taken back during hypnosis to recall their past lives by very intelligent psychiatrists.
One GREAT study was done by Dr. Brian Weiss, M.D. He wrote a book "Many Lives, Many Masters" that contain his reports.

Many Lives, Many Masters is the true story of a prominent psychiatrist, his young patient, and the past-life therapy that changed both their lives. As a traditional psychotherapist, Dr. Brian Weiss, M.D., graduating Phi Beta Kappa, magna cum laude, from Columbia University and Yale Medical School, spent years in the disciplined study of the human psychology, training his mind to think as a scientist and a physician. He held steadfastly to conservatism in his profession, distrusting anything that could not be proved by traditional scientific method. But when he met his 27-year old patient, Catherine, in 1980, who came to his office seeking help for her anxiety, panic attacks, and phobias, he was taken aback at what unfolded in the therapy sessions that followed, which jolted him out of his conventional ways of thought and psychiatry. For the first time, he came face-to-face with the concept of reincarnation and the many tenets of Hinduism, which, as he says in the last chapter of the book, “I thought only Hindus… practiced.”

Second, you claim that knowing the information of the past would hold you back from learning the lessons of the present. This seems a misstep in logic to me. In this lifetime, after a man learns to walk and then has a tragic accident where he has to learn how to walk again; is he moving forward with his lessons by re-learning something that he already knew? Re-learning something that you have already learned hardly seems productive.

The lesson in your example is not about learning a lesson of the physical type, but a lesson for the spirit.
I'm sure we have all seen stories where someone loses a body part, then goes on to defeat this handicap by showing they don't need that body part to live a normal life.
For example, there was a story not long ago about a man losing his leg, then running in a marathon with his artificial leg. He was an "inspiration" to many who don't even have any physical handicaps! His lesson was learning how to overcome this physical challenge.... and he did, while inspiring others to do the same.

Your last point is what got me though, 'we would have too much "baggage" to drag around. We would all be suicidal!'. I think I understand what you were eluding to, but the idea does not stick with me. Are you suggesting that horrible experience of previous lives would haunt a present life? If so, I understand why you would think that, but perspective is a powerful tool if used correctly. I do not think that bad experience would retain its potency if it was known and understood that a spirit is eternal. A bad physical experience would fade into nothing when it is standing next to a spirit that has endured eternity. My point is that if 'knowledge is power' then losing memory does not benefit us.

Let me give a personal example of "baggage"...
I was told during a reading once that I used to be a servant in a past live to the woman who is now my mother in this life. I had many issues with her in that past life because she treated me badly. I hated her in that life! So in order to forgive her and learn to love her, to balance that bad karma, she had to come back as my mother in this life so she could give me "motherly love", and I could learn to love her.
This would not have been possible if I had retained the memories of how she treated me in that past life.

We are programmed at an early age to focus all our attention on our physical selves, but our physical selves are not who we are. Our bodies are transport vehicles for our consciousness and deserves enough attention to be maintained but I feel our society has placed all levels of importance on them. All you have to do is walk by a magazine rack to understand my point.

I agree with you. I do see more and more attention being place on taking care of our spirit/soul now though than in previous years.
There have been more and more things being taught to help the spirit these days that were unheard of only a decade ago. They are even teaching meditative classes where I work to the "residents" there to train them how to control their anger issues. I see this increasing as time goes forward.

Originally posted by fight back

Why is it that god has a Gate of haven? to protect from who? Or to prevent who from Getting out of h-EA-ven.

It is to keep the evil souls OUT, not to prevent the pure souls from escaping.... not to think they would want to.
But this would be the explanation for those who go along with the Christian religious beliefs. I see the "gate" as symbolism.

Why is it that Angels are the only ones to have Halos over their head? Why god does not have any?

I have read the halo affect is seen when the third eye chakra merges with the crown chakra.
www.google.com...
Who's to say God does not have a halo? To my knowledge no one has seen God because his brightness would
kill us (in human form).

A ring, could this be the mark of the beast? Spiritual enslavment?

Ha! I don't think so! Dig deeper.

i believe that when you die(all animals not just humans) the energy that makes you who you are, soul, life line, core energy w/e you want to call it, shoots out towards the world, galaxy, universes, and carrying with it all your memories dna make up, thoughts, art ,inventions, feelings, they all get shot out to newborns across the universe so that ideas will never die and LIFE not just humans can continue to evolve.

i dont think you can ever come back as "who you were" for that person would be made up of the environments that sourounded their(your) life, but maybe if enough of the particles land in the same host, maybe just maybe a half of you might form, but would still be totally different, ie if a male then a female ect ect.

Ascend? Where is your evidence the human race is any more decent or moral than it was thousands of years ago? People are getting more and more cutthroat and competitive and indifferent to each other when I look around me. Something is missing in your analysis.

Originally posted by tinhattribunal
reply to post by NiNjABackflip

 

There is nothing besides some stories in ancient texts where this seems to be the case.

just because the modern texts have edited this out doesn't change the facts ... souls are real and eternal.

Pics or it never happened ...

Originally posted by tinhattribunal
reply to post by NiNjABackflip

 

There is nothing besides some stories in ancient texts where this seems to be the case.

just because the modern texts have edited this out doesn't change the facts ... souls are real and eternal.

What facts are you talking about may I ask? The fact that you will believe anything you're told as long as it fits with your religiosity?