Bringing Schrödinger's Cat to Life - All the mysteries of Quantum Mechanics in one thought experie

page: 1
3
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 02:50 AM
link   

“I am sorry that I ever had anything to do with quantum theory,” Erwin Schrödinger reportedly complained to a colleague. The Austrian physicist was not lamenting the fate of his now famous cat, which he figuratively placed in a box with a vial of poison in 1935. Rather he was commenting on the strange implications of quantum mechanics, the science behind electrons, atoms, photons and other things submicroscopic. With his feline, Schrödinger attempted to illustrate the problem: according to quantum mechanics, particles jump from point to point, occupy several places at once and seem to communicate faster than the speed of light. So why don’t cats—or baseballs or planets or people, for that matter—do the same things? After all, they are made of atoms. Instead they obey the predictable, classical laws quantified by Isaac Newton. When does the quantum world give way to the physics of everyday life? “That’s one of the $64,000 questions,” chuckles David Pritchard of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.


The main article which can be found here for free for a short time. Its got like 7 pages so keep reading. Its decent stuff for scientific american. Full of good info.
www.scientificamerican.com...



For those who have no idea who Schrodinger was, or his cat please watch this nice video.




posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 03:18 AM
link   
reply to post by ubeenhad
 


Dear ubeenhad,

That is the beauty of quantum physics, we can test it, verify it and it violates all the laws that we believe are base in physics and that we see in action. The real question is not when does it go from quantum to general; but, what causes that change. Then as we research the double slit experiment, we find that the thing that causes it to change is the fact that we observe it, consciousness.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 03:23 AM
link   
reply to post by ubeenhad
 


Scientific American is one of my printed subscriptions. For a casual magazine it's pretty rad.

Thanks for the post I will give it a read soon



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 03:25 AM
link   

Originally posted by AQuestion


Yup. What is it that collapses the wave function?
Measurement problem.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 04:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by ubeenhad

Originally posted by AQuestion


Yup. What is it that collapses the wave function?
Measurement problem.


Dear ubeenhad,

Sure why not, a science that does not work. Sure, all the experiments we have done at a quantum level are wrong. I am not even discussing their multi-universe answer. I think what you are saying is that nothing we measure at a quantum or subatomic level is accurate, there are problems with that. If it meets all the requirements for being a full fledged theory, then, are you rejecting scientific method or the answers? If you reject the scientific method then you are no different from anyone else that believe in a myth that does not have to be supported by evidence.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 11:51 AM
link   

Originally posted by AQuestion

Sure why not, a science that does not work. Sure, all the experiments we have done at a quantum level are wrong. I am not even discussing their multi-universe answer. I think what you are saying is that nothing we measure at a quantum or subatomic level is accurate, there are problems with that. If it meets all the requirements for being a full fledged theory, then, are you rejecting scientific method or the answers? If you reject the scientific method then you are no different from anyone else that believe in a myth that does not have to be supported by evidence.


The experiments at the quantum level are wrong? Can you elaborate on this bold, and very untrue claim.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 01:35 PM
link   
I think Schrodinger's Cat tells us that objective reality doesn't exist.

The Cat as well as the Observer who opens the box are holographic projections of quantum states. So the cat or the human doesn't go into a state of superposition, they already are in a state of superposition. Because we're dealing with classical projections of quantum state, we can't see the interference pattern between states.

So the wave function of the radioactive material projects the classical states of an observer-live cat and an observer-dead cat.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 04:02 PM
link   
reply to post by ubeenhad
 


Dear ubeenhad,

You stated that there was a measurement error, I am trying to understand if you agree or disagree with what has been witnessed at the quantum level.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 04:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by ubeenhad
 


Dear ubeenhad,

You stated that there was a measurement error, I am trying to understand if you agree or disagree with what has been witnessed at the quantum level.


The measurment problem is the name for a fundemental/semi-logical contradiction in Quantum Mechanics. In the easiest form to understand, look at the double slit experiment. We do not know what collapses the wave function exactly, whether its the photon or other particle interacting with the 'wavicle' that collapses the wave function when we try to look at which path the photon is actually going through.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 05:02 PM
link   
reply to post by ubeenhad
 


Dear ubeenhad,

Okay, then we are back to the beginning. When we witness quantum entanglement or some of the other counter-intuitive things that occur on the subatomic level, we need to have an answer for why. We either accept that what we are witnessing is accurately being observed or we do not. If we do not then we begin having a problem with the scientific method. We can duplicate the double slit experiment and get the same result, that is the scientific method and the experiment shows that merely observing a thing can change the outcome. There could be another force at work; but, it has not been observed. So, how do we explain what we have measured and observed when we do the double slit experiment?



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 05:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by AQuestion
When we witness quantum entanglement or some of the other counter-intuitive things that occur on the subatomic level, we need to have an answer for why.


Says Who?
'Why' is a human thing.
Cause and effect is not.
Why and cause are not the same thing.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 06:06 PM
link   
reply to post by ubeenhad
 


Dear ubeenhad,

Why includes cause and effect, it is the question of how things occur and sometimes there is purpose and intent. If you wish me to word my question differently I can. What is it that causes the outcome of the double slit experiment to change just because it is being observed?



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 06:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by ubeenhad
 


Dear ubeenhad,

Why includes cause and effect, it is the question of how things occur and sometimes there is purpose and intent. If you wish me to word my question differently I can. What is it that causes the outcome of the double slit experiment to change just because it is being observed?


Thats the measurement problem.
Its just the way it is.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 06:36 PM
link   
reply to post by ubeenhad
 


The video you posted was kinda cool.,.,.,.,the last few seconds of the video talking about Einstein's idea,, the guy said that it was a stupid idea.,., i think its a smart alecy great idea..,., to show that when something happens,, it happens,,, when it doesnt,,, it doesnt,,.,.
because up until that point, the experiment might as well be.,.,.,

there is a room with no windows,..,,. and a person sitting in the room,,,, we are outside the room,,,, we do not no if the person in the room is hungry or not.,..,,. we slide a tray of food in the room and plan to wait 20 minutes,.,.,., while we are outside the room,.,. the person on the inside is either eating or not..,,., we have no way of knowing until we look.,,.,.,.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 06:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by ubeenhad
 


Dear ubeenhad,

Why includes cause and effect, it is the question of how things occur and sometimes there is purpose and intent. If you wish me to word my question differently I can. What is it that causes the outcome of the double slit experiment to change just because it is being observed?


according to my minimal understanding.,,.,.

the instruments used to image/sense/detect such small scale quanta as photons,,,, interact with the photons,, because of their process of detection,,, thus changing the outcome of the experiment when trying to observe...thus heralded "the measurement problem"
edit on 20-10-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 08:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by ubeenhad
 


Dear ubeenhad,

Why includes cause and effect, it is the question of how things occur and sometimes there is purpose and intent. If you wish me to word my question differently I can. What is it that causes the outcome of the double slit experiment to change just because it is being observed?


according to my minimal understanding.,,.,.

the instruments used to image/sense/detect such small scale quanta as photons,,,, interact with the photons,, because of their process of detection,,, thus changing the outcome of the experiment when trying to observe...thus heralded "the measurement problem"
edit on 20-10-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)


Thats exactly right.
Only uncertainty says that its deeper than just our measuring capabilities. Because of the nature of space, the actual particle has a confusion of were its located.
edit on 20-10-2012 by ubeenhad because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 09:18 PM
link   
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Dear ImaGungi,

In other words you don't believe it is possible to measure accurately at the sub atomic level. Wow, they sure wasted billions and billions of dollars to build CERN and the Large Hadron Collider to measure things on a sub atomic level. I must therefore assume that both you and ubeenhad believe spending all that money was a waste of time and that all of the people involved don't understand science. I could be wrong of course, there are many things I do not know; but, I am going to think very poorly of the scientific community if they keep building these machines when they cannot possibly work.



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 12:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Dear ImaGungi,

In other words you don't believe it is possible to measure accurately at the sub atomic level. Wow, they sure wasted billions and billions of dollars to build CERN and the Large Hadron Collider to measure things on a sub atomic level. I must therefore assume that both you and ubeenhad believe spending all that money was a waste of time and that all of the people involved don't understand science. I could be wrong of course, there are many things I do not know; but, I am going to think very poorly of the scientific community if they keep building these machines when they cannot possibly work.


i was under the impression it was significant in regards to the double slit experiment,,, not knowing what slit the photon will travel through,, and by detecting which one, or both slits it goes through,,,will effect what the photon does,, this is the concept of wave - particle duality ,,, and it occurs when they try to zoom in on one photon going through two slits,,, and the act of "observation" close ranges changes the final result,,, as to when they did not have an instrument close to the slits,, detecting close range what the photon will do,.,.,,. I tihnk i have seen it explained as to say,,, the detecter technology in order to work must interact some hose with the photon and this is what throws the end result off,..,., I dont know where people got the idea that a person look at it makes it move differently...... but if you can show me a reputable source I will think more about it..



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 01:23 AM
link   
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Dear ImaFungi,

LOL. You managed to not answer anything I asked you. Why did we spend billions to create machines that cannot do their job? Are you smarter than all of those physicists because I am not, are they all just thieves?



posted on Oct, 21 2012 @ 01:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Dear ImaFungi,

LOL. You managed to not answer anything I asked you. Why did we spend billions to create machines that cannot do their job? Are you smarter than all of those physicists because I am not, are they all just thieves?


what we were talking about didnt have anything to do with the particle accelerator i dont think...

I think they are good at plotting what they perceive,,, I dont think they totally and fully understand the implications or what exactly it is they are looking at,,, and I think sometimes they may prescribe or infer behavior or meanings that are not accurate to events that occur with particles, anti, virtual and all,, in a measurement situation,, vacuums,,, particle accelerator



new topics
 
3
<<   2 >>

log in

join