Is It Really So Hard To Believe In God If You Already Believe In The “Unbelievable”?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

If it is found that there is no 'you' - who's to worry about anything.
When there is no worry - there is love.

This is the truth. I am being diligent focusing on the now and not trying to conceptulize and think about the past or future. Its now, the reality is the moment. The magic is filling the moment with love. Its easy just need to recalibrate myself, make myself simplier. A simple farmer working in field of Now.

reply to post by samstone11


Ah, great post. All good posts should get one thinking.

Here is my humble thought:

Mankind knows only an infintestimal amount of knowledge about his surroundings, the universe--even about the human body. In short, we are still in kindgergarten. And that is not to say we've haven't made great leaps in technology and health and science---but it is but a tiny fraction of all that there is to know.

The problem with science is its ego-driven propensity to think it has all the answers.

The truth about who we are and where we come from is certain to seem fantastical to us at this stage in our evolution, just as TV's and phones might have seemed to someone in the 1700's.

Anything is possible. I believe the truth is so much bigger, so much more beautiful and substantive than we can ever imagine.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I know this is going to come off wrong, I apologize it's not my intent. Just wanting to understand.

So you're saying you believe the Christian Bible to be the infallible Word of God. That it truthfully, accurately, represents the thoughts and wishes of the creator of all of existence.... because you were able to get out of a dark place in your life and you feel much better now?

Surely people of other religions have made this claim.

reply to post by samstone11


I think the title is all that is needed for a solid argument.
+S

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I know this is going to come off wrong, I apologize it's not my intent. Just wanting to understand.

So you're saying you believe the Christian Bible to be the infallible Word of God. That it truthfully, accurately, represents the thoughts and wishes of the creator of all of existence.... because you were able to get out of a dark place in your life and you feel much better now?

Surely people of other religions have made this claim.

More to it than that. Like i said before i called on the names of other gods and not a damn thing ever happened, but when i called on the name of Jesus i was delivered just like the scriptures said and it was instantly. This is what i believe and this is what happened. Maybe someday you will understand, but i doubt you will ever understand me. I had suffered child abuse from the age of 3 to 17 when i ran away and for 14 more years all i ever knew was hate and anger. I lived in a literal hell in every sense of the word, never knowing love, never knowing forgiveness and just 1 name. Not Thor, not Zeus, not mother Earth, not the good witch of the north. Calling on the names of lies did nothing, but the name of Jesus did. Jesus saves people, sitting on motel room beds about to blow their brains all over the wall, i was one of them. One name gave me life, and gave me hope, brought me taught me how to forgive and how to love, and it was Jesus.

Every single one of us has a story to tell. Some of us have some painful stories.....

I understand the love for Jesus....... but I will never understand the religion that "claims" to follow Jesus teachings.

Jesus is not a religion. Jesus did not create a religion. Sadly, being a "Christian" does not mean anything to the creator. All of mankind are his children.... he doesn't play favorites no matter what you have been taught.

The videos I posted on the prior page are really good in regards to teaching your brain another way to view "God" and "Jesus".

The brainwashing has got to stop... we have got to begin thinking for our self and understand that which we are. Once this is done, I have hope we can all get along better and wars will halt.

I think religion is mans attempt to make the rules. I have found everything I need out of the Bible. I have friends who became Great Men in the eyes of others with their ministries. I have seen these people in their vilest as well.I believe the idea of 'churches' came into being with the Apostles, and not in the intent Jesus wished. He said.. "where two or more are gathered in My name I am there also" He also said "Love your brother as yourself". With these two key elements, the latter being the most important that He said, in my mind it would mean that people coming together would be what we know as a church. And "Love your Brother as Yourself" would bring sharing and help distributed to all in need, and a solidarity of like minds. Unity of body and mind. Those willing to believe in and follow the teachings of Jesus. All the religions we have at present are divisional in precepts. In antiquity, a lot was covered with the cloak of religion and evil was able to flourish under the guise of being one of Gods children, a believer in Jesus or God, yet actions hidden would prove otherwise. It bestowed acceptance for those trying to use it for gain and appear pious and gain CONfidence. Hucksters found it a valuable disguise, and still to today it is used as a disguise.

It's not for me to evangelize, I have my given tasks, and there will always be those who scoff even till their last breath.
As your title suggests ****"Is It Really So Hard To Believe In God If You Already Believe In The “Unbelievable”?***
The more you believe in God, the less those mysteries will appeal to you, and you will discern their deceptions. The first two pages here were..... uh... La La Land and of no real direction, and no real value. I suppose we all search 'out there' some, until we find. God is not 'apart' from everybody, He is easy to find. It's the people that are apart from God.
When you thirst for the Living Water, you will surely find it .............. Be Blessed

reply to post by samstone11


im a definite non-believer, and what i have trouble with, is people of religous belief who believe primarily out of fear of what would happen to them if they dont beleive and it turns out there is some form of higher power. also, i think im a good person, i have strong morals and i try to treat others with respect, and i have deep empathy and compassion for those who suffer, and i hear a lot of religeous people saying how can you have good morals if you dont believe in god, and what i take that for is that they are saying that if they didnt beleive in god they would steal, rape and kill or whatever because what consequences are there if there is no god?

also, if there truly is a god, and he is as benevolent as he is described, i feel that if you lived a good life that you would be forgiven for not believing, would he really be so shallow if he were to exist? i dont think so

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I know this is going to come off wrong, I apologize it's not my intent. Just wanting to understand.

So you're saying you believe the Christian Bible to be the infallible Word of God. That it truthfully, accurately, represents the thoughts and wishes of the creator of all of existence.... because you were able to get out of a dark place in your life and you feel much better now?

Surely people of other religions have made this claim.

I'd like to answer that.. the Bible we have today is kind of inaccurate, it has been somewhat contaminated, I think we can all agree, but the 'Books of the Bible, books like those written by Josephus, the Dead Sea Scrolls and other authors in antiquity bear witness and corroborate each other and overlap. Probably the most correct form exists in the Gutenberg Bible, and perhaps there are translation inaccuracies in it as well. BUT there are enough manuscripts (thousands) in existence that we can find the truth if we search. Including the Apocrypha as well.

Originally posted by Plotus

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I know this is going to come off wrong, I apologize it's not my intent. Just wanting to understand.

So you're saying you believe the Christian Bible to be the infallible Word of God. That it truthfully, accurately, represents the thoughts and wishes of the creator of all of existence.... because you were able to get out of a dark place in your life and you feel much better now?

Surely people of other religions have made this claim.

I'd like to answer that.. the Bible we have today is kind of inaccurate, it has been somewhat contaminated, I think we can all agree, but the 'Books of the Bible, books like those written by Josephus, the Dead Sea Scrolls and other authors in antiquity bear witness and corroborate each other and overlap. Probably the most correct form exists in the Gutenberg Bible, and perhaps there are translation inaccuracies in it as well. BUT there are enough manuscripts (thousands) in existence that we can find the truth if we search. Including the Apocrypha as well.

Great words spoken above and I totally agree. There are many puzzle pieces but when careful one may build upon it and see the whole picture.

I want to know it all!

The simplest answer is often the right one, you know?

The only think we are absolutly sure of, is that no one knows the truth and that there is no evidence of an intelligent creator.

There are many who claim to know, but of coarse, they don't.

Feelings and beliefs, whether for or against the idea of a god, are just that. Even if the feeling is so strong, the person BELIEVES there could be no doubt.

The only valid position is that of an agnostic, whether theist or atheist.

reply to post by charles1952




"A basic reason why people fight to reject a belief in God is, that if they accept Him, then they are no longer the Top Dog, they have to bow down to someone other than themselves. This is a huge blow to the ego, and the reason why Pride is considered the most fundamental of sins. "

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to understand. I don't believe in any gods. But I don't fight to reject a belief in god.
I just don't believe.

"It's hard for them to believe in God because they have a vested interest in not believing in Him. "

This isn't true at all. You are assuming that we have an interest in believing in a god, which then means we are somehow fighting ourselves to not believe it. Not to mention, you are referring to your Christian god, but would you make the same arguement if we were talking about a god of another religion?


"They would be forced to give up their comfortable view of the world and step out into the adventure of reality, "

I assure you, there is no comfort in seeing the realities of this world.

Of coarse, you are entitled to your belief system. But it would be nice if you would try to understand the people you claim to know everything about, without your personal bias.

reply to post by smilesmcgee

Dear smilesmcgee,

Thank you very much. I need to have my biases pointed out so I can deal with them, and I'm glad you took the time to do that for me. It's a never ending struggle, isn't it? Mind if I comment?

Not to mention, you are referring to your Christian god, but would you make the same arguement if we were talking about a god of another religion?

The distinction I was trying to make was between worshipping ourselves, our wills, our desires, and worshipping and serving God, His will and desires.

People never have perfect understanding. Some, isolated from what we call the modern world, may worship, oh, I don't know, trees? The Sun? Whatever. And if that is the best truth they have been exposed to, or can sense in their souls, then they are doing rightly. I'm not insisting on a Christian God.

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to understand. I don't believe in any gods. But I don't fight to reject a belief in god.
I just don't believe.

I'm confused by this, I'm hoping you can clear it up. The question of God is the fundamental question, isn't it? Our understanding of our lives, purposes, even reality, is tied up in how we answer those questions. A universe, and a people without a God is different, at root, from one which has some traditional style of a God in it.

If you are still trying to decide whether He exists or not, fine. As long as you are seriously working at it and holding yourself open to an answer, and not just saying "it's more convenient or pleasant for me to not believe." This is not a question of what we want, it's Herod's question through the Millenia, "What is Truth?" When we find the Truth, and reject it, we are doomed to ignorance and worse.

If you have found that God is not the Truth, then as a man you have a responsibility to enlighten others. Point out that this is the great deception of all time. If someone is believing a lie, how can you sit by and let them believe it without at least a considered attempt to help them?

This isn't true at all. You are assuming that we have an interest in believing in a god, which then means we are somehow fighting ourselves to not believe it.

Aren't you? Humanity, as far back as we can tell, has had beliefs in some form of the gods, be they crocodiles, stars, trees, spirits, something. Those who do not have a desire to believe in some form of God are a distinct minority. I might add, they are a fairly modern minority. Oh, there were Atheists in the past, but in our lifetimes we have seen entire countries attempt to impose Atheism, even by the killings of believers. Even then, believers come back, even if it means hiding to worship. They are serving Truth at the expense of their lives. Are we that strong?

I assure you, there is no comfort in seeing the realities of this world.

The "1952" in my name is my year of birth, I appreciate your assurance that things happen here that do not bring comfort. I agree. But notice the reaction some people have. "We only have to solve poverty, or prejudice, or ignorance, or whatever." The underlying idea is that "if we can only remake man so that he is like us, enlightened, then we will have no need of stories of Heaven, we will have created our own. Man and science will take their rightful places as ruler and controller of the Universe, and we can put away the nonsense of the gods."

I appreciate your interest in helping me clean out any errors I might be harboring. I think we might have more to discuss.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by samstone11

 

I am just asking if it is such a big leap from believing in the incredible, the unexplainable, the conspiracies, and all the other issues and topics that drive a great site like ATS to believing in God?

It's one thing to invite my mind to ponder eternity, a first cause, a prime mover.... it's something entirely different to ask it to believe he is a he, dislikes certain people, prefers less skin on particular body parts, etc.

The opposition, at least from me, is the horrible dogmatic beliefs that often envelope an otherwise fantastic idea to explore.

Exactly! It's some people's rigid views of what God is and isn't that usually blow my mind.

There are some incredible thoughts and insight here. Please continue, and thanks to all who have offered kind words and even well thought out disagreement. Forgive me for not being able to address all of the great comments individually, but please allow me to explain myself a little more.

It seems multiple comments deduced that Christianity could be based on the fear instilled by religious belief. I suggest that may be partially correct, and partially opposite of what I personally believe. I will explain after another quick thought. In addition, many posts have called attention to the difficulty in trying to fit so many round pegs into the square hole labeled “religion”.

It wasn’t until I discovered ATS that I realized there was a difference between my faith, denominations, religion, etc, etc. I have often been challenged directly or otherwise to defend, explain, or even outright abandon my personal convictions . I found I had to determine for myself what I will and will not believe, study it enough to understand why I believe it, and stay the course, again by faith. I also discovered, as I just mentioned, I have to have an open mind which allows me to comprehend other people’s views, but the core of my faith must remain solid. If I cannot keep a firm grasp on my beliefs, especially as important as I think they are, then I can’t even expect myself to be consistent on lesser issues in my life.

Several posts have mentioned that God is not provable, therefore they either reserve judgment or choose not to believe in Him. For me personally, I have to mention again that I don’t think it could be true “faith” if it were obvious and incontrovertible. This is MY way of life, and I have been taught that I need to try and help everyone I can come to know God. However, as promised before I appreciate the civil discourse we have had on the subject so far, and I still respect almost everyone (some have forfeited that consideration in the past) here whether they agree with me or not. Some people will never believe in UFOs, aliens, ghosts, or whatever even if indisputable proof was discovered. For the same reason—being human, free will--some of us will never believe in God. Just remember, a lot of folks who believe in those other things do so on faith, in anecdotal stories, or some type of faith as opposed to actual, personal, tangible proof.

Thank you for your courtesy, and let me leave this to explain my position:
“But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD”—JOSHUA 24:15, NIV.