Is It Really So Hard To Believe In God If You Already Believe In The “Unbelievable”?

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posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 09:09 PM
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This has confused me over and over. Some of the most vicious arguments ever to cross the pages here at ATS have been about the existence of God or any deity from any religion or faith. It also brings out what often becomes the worst and most offensive dialogue regardless which side you find yourself on.

Personally, I have no problem accepting there is simply always going to be things in this amazing universe we can never expect to comprehend. For me, I can easily reconcile my limited understanding with the “mysteries of God”. I’m Ok that I can never understand things like the nature of time, if time or space has a beginning or an end, or where the matter came from before the big bang and what existed before then (yes, I can even accept that as a possibility and STILL believe in God). So, then I can also accept that He may have included ghosts, UFOs, flying pigs, or whatever He chose in His creation.

In college, I wrote a paper attempting to reconcile Science and God. I began by positing that God’s time doesn’t have to be the same as ours, and enlisted Einstein’s theory of relativity, special theory of relativity, and specifically, time dilation. This meant that if the train, so to speak, that God is on is running at a different pace, then 3 billion years for us could have been 6 days to Him.

I am just asking if it is such a big leap from believing in the incredible, the unexplainable, the conspiracies, and all the other issues and topics that drive a great site like ATS to believing in God? Is it contradictory to vehemently argue a case for other societal implausible constructs, but unequivocally deny that God can be real as well?

At least as just a possibility?

I wanted to post this thread because of something I have heard many times growing up. In short, the question is asked what do I have to lose if I’m wrong, but if God is real, then what do the deniers have to lose in comparison?

I respectfully request sincere input and that posts be civil. I accept anyone’s right to believe differently than I do, but I should not be expected to extend that courtesy when not returned in kind.

Thanks in advance.




posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by samstone11
 



I am just asking if it is such a big leap from believing in the incredible, the unexplainable, the conspiracies, and all the other issues and topics that drive a great site like ATS to believing in God?


It's one thing to invite my mind to ponder eternity, a first cause, a prime mover.... it's something entirely different to ask it to believe he is a he, dislikes certain people, prefers less skin on particular body parts, etc.

The opposition, at least from me, is the horrible dogmatic beliefs that often envelope an otherwise fantastic idea to explore.



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 09:17 PM
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Just posting to bookmark, il be back tomorrow, its 3.15 here.



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 09:23 PM
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Great post, and your thoughts reflect my own on the subject. What I have noticed about the most vocal and ardent anti-theists, is that their opposition to the idea of "God" doesn't come from a place of logic, as ultimately the best one can do with our present understanding of the universe is to label yourself an agnostic. Instead, their positions come from an emotional place, and they tend to make emotional appeals to make their point by singling out human activities through the lens of religion. For instance, the old "how many people has religion killed" argument.

Additionally, their arguments tend to center around suffering in the world, and how it's incomprehensible that any God could allow such things as Cancer to exist. Both of these arguments have a shared flaw in that they have nothing to do with whether or not there was (or is) an intelligent source behind the origins of the universe. Suffering in the world or the nature of religion and how it impacts society is largely irrelevant to the question of whether or not there is a "God". Instead, they are reflections of our own nature, and completely independent of the question of the origins of the universe.

I myself, have a Christian outlook, and I do not find that cosmological evolution is incompatible with my spiritual beliefs. Unfortunately, people who share that idea tend to be the minority.

Anyways, refreshing to see someone who can think outside the box on such issues. I agree with you for the most part.



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 



What I have noticed about the most vocal and ardent anti-theists, is that their opposition to the idea of "God" doesn't come from a place of logic, as ultimately the best one can do with our present understanding of the universe is to label yourself an agnostic.


Someone can believe in God and be anti-theist. The distinction is very important, and will help you understand the real nature of some peoples opposition (including mine).

One can use logic to deduce God (Creator, Prime Mover, whathaveyou) likely is true, that person can use the same faculty of mind to deduce theism (the belief system built around God) is likely not true.



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 09:34 PM
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An excellent question!

Most beliefs come either through experience, or what one is told throughout their lives. One person's impossible may be another's reality.

Like many UFO abduction cases. Whether someone has been abducted and tested or whatever may happen in a situation like that, for some of those people, I have no doubt they believe it is real. Sure some stories may be pure fiction. Though a lot of science fiction less than a century ago is an everyday occurrence today and is considered "normal"

I didn't experience it, then again, I haven't experienced any event in the exact same way as any of the 7+ billion people inhabiting the planet today. Not counting people who are not here with us today.

I really don't think any of us can even begin to understand, let alone describe the answers to some of the questions we have today. Its my personal belief one day we will. Whether it is during this life, or possibly an afterlife I don't know. Just gotta have faith.

Maybe belief in an afterlife makes a "real" reality for yourself after you pass on.



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by samstone11
 

You've put a lot into that thread, good for you. May I just offer a general opinion?

The great division in the world seems to be based on the answer to the demand "Choose this day whom you will serve. (Joshua 24) Some choose God, the rest choose themselves. You can see it here on ATS. There are people who say "Do as you will shall be the whole of the law." (Some add, as long as it does no hurt.) You can see it in those who say "I don't believe in God, but I can be a good person. The emphasis is always on the "I."

Worshipping yourself is probably the one religion most likely to make one happy in this world, but it's not true, and it's not lasting. Nonetheless, it can be fun, and a boost to the ego, to believe that one is the pinnacle of creation.

A basic reason why people fight to reject a belief in God is, that if they accept Him, then they are no longer the Top Dog, they have to bow down to someone other than themselves. This is a huge blow to the ego, and the reason why Pride is considered the most fundamental of sins.

It's hard for them to believe in God because they have a vested interest in not believing in Him. They would be forced to give up their comfortable view of the world and step out into the adventure of reality, a reality that involves fighting against a powerful enemy who needs to be defeated in each man's heart.


P.s. I've noticed that there is objection to various "forms" or rituals of organized religion. That's not all that relevant. The question is "Who are you serving?" If God, then wouldn't you want to find out as much as you can about Him (used as a convenient pronoun)? Find the truth, and as you learn more, you can serve better. Check what's in your heart. The forms aren't the key, the truth is.
edit on 19-10-2012 by charles1952 because: add P.s.



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 09:37 PM
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foward a person to their death bed and ask them what they knew about life. Well i wont be surprised if they say nothing except that i dont want to leave it. So admission of nothing, is admission that they were perplexed by its mystery. So the answer has to be No.
edit on 19-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 10:24 PM
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Why does it matter?

in all probability if there is a god he most definitely hates the religion

I believe in higher powers and creation but Im sure a god would look upon us as we do insects. with disgust and hatred



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by lobotomizemecapin
 



but Im sure a god would look upon us as we do insects. with disgust and hatred


You look at insects with hatred?....

not indifference?...



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 



What I have noticed about the most vocal and ardent anti-theists, is that their opposition to the idea of "God" doesn't come from a place of logic, as ultimately the best one can do with our present understanding of the universe is to label yourself an agnostic.


Someone can believe in God and be anti-theist. The distinction is very important, and will help you understand the real nature of some peoples opposition (including mine).

One can use logic to deduce God (Creator, Prime Mover, whathaveyou) likely is true, that person can use the same faculty of mind to deduce theism (the belief system built around God) is likely not true.



How else would you have me classify the neo-atheist? It's one thing to have issues with religion. It becomes ridiculous when you use said issues as an argument for atheism.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


I said anti-theism not atheism. I used that wording with intent. Someone being against theism and not necessarily against the belief in a creator god.

That was my whole point. That there is a distinction between the belief in God, and the belief in religious doctrine. Since the philosophical arguments for the existence of God are non-sequitur to the affirmation of said doctrine. That leap is faith based. Ask a Muslim why they believe in God. You might get some sound reasons. Now ask said person why they believe Islam represents the mind of God more than Christianity and you will get a faith-based response. Similarly if you ask a Catholic why he/she believes Mormonism is not the true teaching of our Creator.

It's the faith in theism I take issue with, not the belief in God.

From the wiki:

In a more specific sense, theism is a doctrine concerning the nature of a monotheistic God and God's relationship to the universe

Belief without reason, especially on a matter like this, to me is a travesty with grave consequence.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 05:05 AM
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People believe the unbelieveable all the time. They believe the thoughts they have about yesterday and the thoughts they have about tomorrow. They believe the thoughts they have about other people and the thoughts they have about themselves.

Humans have words and concepts, and these words and concepts are abstractions away from what is true. Humans rely on words. Most humans cannot experience reality without laying words on top of what is experienced. So they experience listening to a story made of words.

The story made of words is written all over what is real. This moment appears wordlessly and as soon as there is a word placed upon it the deception begins.

God can only be known when the words stop and the silence is uncovered.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 05:11 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





deception begins.


I understand everything you are saying although deception is not the best descriptor a better one is the misplacing of spirit.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 05:27 AM
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reply to post by AthlonSavage
 


Spirit seems to hide when there are words and thoughts because the attention goes to the belief in what is said.
However, spirit never goes anywhere.

Is it ever obscured?
youtu.be...



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I'll listen to Vid. I have been practicing the Now and something has happened. I have become aware of things like an injection of knowledge instantly and sometimes painfully into my body, like a ripple waves of energy. I learnt the spirit is the connection to the whole. We as humans can move our point of consciousness and align it perfectly with the spirit or not. Its something i learnt the waves ripples moved my point and this became a apparent truth to me.

The mirror which reflects the normal human form of consciouness is dictated by were the point of consciouness is moved to, and for the normal it resides and sits unmoved until something traumatic pushes its alignment to a new point.

edit on 20-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 05:38 AM
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reply to post by AthlonSavage
 


There is no 'connection' to the whole.
The whole is whole.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I didnt mean connection in a literal sense. I meant an aligment on consciousness to the source.


It takes my force of will to hold my focus on the now. The strength im receiving from this is incredible. It slike being plugged into a wall socket.
edit on 20-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


It takes my force of will to hold my focus on the now. The strength im receiving from this is incredible. It slike being plugged into a wall socket.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 06:22 AM
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reply to post by AthlonSavage
 


Presence is all.
You are the presence. All appears in presence.





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