State of Minnesota bans free online education [update: State relents under pressure]

reply to post by Maxmars


The war against power, knowledge is power. Therefor, knowledge must be quelled. Typical.

Here's a thought. Put the internet courses on a server that's outside the US. State of MN has no authority outside of the borders of the US.

2nd thought. Do the same above but charge the smallest amount of money possible to break even. Or a penny a course. Why?

US Constitution. Article 1 sec. 10.

No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

This would have the effect of making the Minnesota law unconstitutional. Chances are they never got the federal government approval for these taxes. And even if they did then they would have to make the case that the taxes are reasonable and at cost. And give the balance to the federal government.

although I realize that the credits and cetificates that you get from these free online courses will probably never carry as much weight as a degree from a accredited college, sometimes, ones goals might just need the knowledge, and not the degree...

to ban them is just outrageous in my opinion.

especially when the average student is graduating from college with over $20,000 of debt!!
especially when our workforce is so unable to compete for the jobs that we need to have filled.
especially when there are so many on food stamps and our social programs are ballooning at record levels.
and...
especially when the colleges are doing this on their own accord and were doing this before sites like coursera came into being.

and...especially since this would be a very good step in education and would save us a heck of alot of money in the long run!!!

ya, let those who have the money for it have their universities...
but at least give those who don't have the money access to the knowledge without the large sum of debt that well, is probably like our mortgages were and are being sold three times over to different people on the wall street gambling table!!!

heck, they gonna try to ban microsoft next, they have courses free online to help you learn how to use their software...
osha has free course online...
goodwill does...
it's the best possible use for the internet in my opinion!!!

oh well, I will continue to use them, regardless of what laws one state of the union decides to conjure up!!

here are some of the ones I've run across in my hunt for knowledge...

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www.saylor.org...

www.schoox.com...

www.oshatrain.org...

library.universalclass.com...

alison.com...

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and now that I am unemployed... I will be spending as much time on them as I am looking for my next job!!!

there is no reason why education should be so costly, it is hurting the economy, hurting the nation.

maybe instead of minnesota griping about there being a free alternative, they should think of ways to reduce that cost instead of allowing the tuition to be hiked up even higher the next time around!!!

For all those who missed it:

UPDATE, Oct. 19, 7:07 p.m.: Common sense has indeed prevailed! Minnesota has decided to stop enforcing an outdated law that had led to Coursera telling the state's residents they weren't allowed to take its free online classes. For more, see my follow-up post here.

www.slate.com...

To continue the philosophical discussion of the merits of on-line learning, I would say that accreditation is accreditation, but some institutions are more credible than others. If I were an employer seeking someone to fill a web design position, for example, I might be inclined to favor an applicant from the outside who had a degree from an established institution. On the other hand, if a long time employee were to show that they had learned the necessary skills on-line, I might choose to promote him or her rather than look outside the "family." All learning is good learning.

In Minnesota, it seems that, the ONLY educational institution is the University of Minnesota. If they can't get their hands in it, then it does not exist as a venue for higher learning.

Hey, we're Minnesota and WE DON'T NEED NO EDUCATION.

I don't think they can do this under the free speech clause .... if they do issue a certificate then it would not be viable in Minn. Frankly this is just bullsh....

what no free speech to teach the ignoramuses something? I wonder if this is more about limiting the information which is taught to people therefore limiting their knowledge to the "state" line?

Why is it that members here love to keep adding on, when this was proved to not be true? How many posts saying this story is false does it take?

Well, as a Minnesotan, I would like to see them stop me from getting a free education. I'd give them the middle finger and just keep on reading, they can't stop you...lol

I have to ask, what makes Minnesota so different from all the other states of America, and indeed, from the other NATIONS you know, like the UK, Spain, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, The Congo. You know, actual nations, rather than insignificant little streaks of crud like the individual state governments of each individual little piece of the USA? Perhaps it would be more sensible for Minnesota to realise the obviously outmoded rule that is being upheld probably should not be on its statute books, and stop being so godamned beefheaded.

When REAL governments, like those that actually have foriegn policies, and make choices for entire actual COUNTRIES, are allowing this website to teach people, it pretty much proves something pathetic when a meaningless, and internationally unimportant little state government refuses to get out of the way, especially when the only effect on its people of standing against it, is going to be negative.

This is easily enforced. The state will just file a lawsuit. It has unlimited money for such matters and the suit will simply crush the folks providing the information. While they are morally wrong, devoid of any human quality at all, I suggest they do it. I suggest they simply demonstrate their Orwellian true selves and take a stand against information. Tell the world that information is the devil, unless approved, licenses and taxed - then it is all fine.

This does not shock me, the Rockefeller/Carnagie control of eduction mandates this policy, as the system they created is not for betterment but for population control and employee creation. What shocks me as that it is such a morally untenable position that I can't imagine the person(s) who would actually say this in public, let alone write a law - these have to be the most awful people ever, anywhere.

This thread deserves a star and flag just because it pointed me in a direction I have been wanting to go for awhile. Google is definitely NOT my friend lol, so this thread has helped me greatly, Thank You

This is good PR for this site, I didnt know it existed before this news broke.

reply to post by DJW001


Indeed this thread's days are numbered now...at least Slate was kind enough to update their info, I didn't see anything of the sort on the Register article or Wired.

It's a relief that common sense did prevail in the end, I'll admit even I chuckled when I read the part about how residents may "take the Coursera courses...outside of the state of Minnesota" LOL

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by Maxmars

 

Uh, erm, folks, have any of you bothered to read the Slate link? It's been updated: Minnesota is no longer enforcing this out-dated law. Besides which, this law was meant to protect people from substandard education programs that cost money; it was written before there was a notion that free, online education would be provided.

So move along, ATS'ers, there's nothing to see here or wring one's hands about -- besides the fact that ATS'ers love to pile-on on some issue without bothering to check the facts of the matter.

That said, just tried to go to coursera's website, but the page fails to load, i.e. the site is either overloaded or not working, but in any case I am not impressed by couresera so far.

edit on 20-10-2012 by MrInquisitive because: (no reason given)

Well, I just accessed their website and signed up for 4 courses! Awesome.

Originally posted by Dishonored
There used to be a time when "education" was a hobby. Something those with extra free time on their hand did. The first school in America was put in place simply to teach kids how to read the King James Bible. Now "education" is all but required to even live a normal life in this country. There is no freedom because you must become a slave before you can be free. If you don't understand what I'm saying, then please, kindly, go waste 4 year and around $100,000 at your local university, graduate, and work at Walmart.

Education is not the solution. It never has been. It never will be.

I have never read something so ignorant and pointless. By the way, there are high paying jobs at Walmart.

Originally posted by Dishonored
Education is not the solution. It never has been. It never will be.

Then how did you learn how to type, spell and form sentences? Were you born with that knowledge?

I think what you meant to say was that the way the modern education system is set up, is not the solution. But that all depends on what you want that education to do for you. The smartest people I know, know what they want and know how to get it. The one's who go to the colleges where you have to pay an arm and a leg for a degree, graduate in debt in order to increase their chances of earning a 6 figure income, well......let's just say that they will be very lucky to get that income these days.

These are the people who don't do their "homework" as it were and don't realize that the fields they're paying $40,000 for, or whatever, to get into is more than likely going to see quite a few changes in the 4 to 6 years it takes to graduate. The career fields that pay off are going to be recession proof, like the medical field and retail for example. Everybody gets sick and everybody needs to shop for at least the basics. In that case, I can see wanting to go through the process to get a degree. But if what you want to do is very hit and miss in this country, I think it's foolish to pay out that kind of money when there's no guarantee of a return.

And the people who are in those fields who want to hire new graduates, they need to realize this as well. Not only that it's unrealistic to expect someone to pay out thousands of dollars when there's no guarantee of employment, but also that just because they spent all that money, that it didn't give those new graduates any kind of special knowledge that free online courses or community colleges can't give. The bottom line is this: whether you pay $50,000 or $5,000 for an education, there is no guarantee that you're going to get a return on your investment. Ask any businessman out there and he or she will tell you that doing something like that is simply not a good business decision.

If a free education is not what you need to do for yourself, at least choose the lessor of two evils and don't give yourself an astronomical amount of debt that you don't know if you can pay off. Especially if you're going for a business degree. Any employer who has their eyes open will see what you did and question your intelligence. They almost have to if they want a guaranteed return on their investment.

www.npr.org...

By coincidence I have recently started a thread pointing to free online education, including Coursera.

One man's (mine) hope for a better world seems to be a thorn in the side for another.
With all the crap and lies you can find on the Internet, it really begs the question why they chose to attack a brilliant website like Coursera. Good they were forced to backpedal. Thanks go out to those who fought for sanity.

Ah yes, the Truth, when found, can never be 'debated' for stands on it's own merit; naturally, as it should.

so a library is free but this is illegal? How logical. The people who ban such things are the ones with the most need of education