New Leaked Audio; Romney: Tell your employees how to vote

well that explains all the letters from employers making wild claims about not being able to afford them all of a sudden if they vote for O...

Romney is such bad candidate, that he should not only be disqualified, but charges filed for fraud.

It is one thing to use dirty tactics, and a whole other ball game when you subvert the democratic process entirely to CHEAT LIE and STEAL an election from a democratic country.

He didn't even give us time to evaluate his position before disqualifying himself in most people's mind for tactics like this. He could have been a genius, saint, and GOD himself, but he had to play REALLY DIRTY, like CORPORATE AMERICA dirty, which is the only game he knows....so he is just a waste of votes, take some of them and cost the election to someone else.

If he is made president, people won't just RIOT, over food stamps and other such nonsense. the country will lose all remaining faith in the election process and the seeds of deep distrust in government will be planted, more so than now already.

As much as I don't like either candidate. Maybe we should vote in the person who will do enough damage to push the majority of people over the edge.

In a crazy world, maybe we need to act crazy to beat them at their own game

Unions NEVER tell their members how to vote. Also I have some pixie dust and a unicorn sitting next to me.

Originally posted by 3chainz

Originally posted by solidguy
Fortunately reminding people they have 1st amendment rights is not illegal in the United States of America.

Yes, this has nothing to do with ethics, just the 1rst amendment.

What is unethical. He told them to pass along to their employees what candidate they feel is best for business. He didn't them to vote for him. It's good advice, Democrats grasp at any small straw they can find.

Can Unions tell their members who to support? Funny how Democrats are alright with that.

There's a vast difference between me looking at, say, my son and saying "I think you should vote for this person." and me saying "I just want to let you know that if this candidate wins, I might have to throw you out of the house. Vote for whoever you want of course, just know about that being thrown out thing. Not that I'm trying to influence you or anything."

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide

There's a vast difference between me looking at, say, my son and saying "I think you should vote for this person." and me saying "I just want to let you know that if this candidate wins, I might have to throw you out of the house. Vote for whoever you want of course, just know about that being thrown out thing. Not that I'm trying to influence you or anything."

~Heff

What is the difference in telling your son if Candidate X wins you will probably lose your house, and a business owner telling their employees if Candidate Y wins I will probably have to close my doors.

Also why is it ok for Unions to do it, but not owners?

reply to post by Hefficide




I wonder how many family's have had that "Parent" lay an ultimatum out like that?

Makes you wonder, hey?

Love the analogy.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

What is the difference in telling your son if Candidate X wins you will probably lose your house, and a business owner telling their employees if Candidate Y wins I will probably have to close my doors.

Where is the logic in this statement? Facts to back it up? It is fear mongering based totally upon supposition. What if the entire country votes for Romney - and then Romney says "Now that I am in office, I've had a look at the big picture, and it is necessary for the nation to drop the Bush tax cuts."?

Are these business owners going to say "Shucks. Well promises are promises - so no matter how bad it gets, you ALL have jobs!"

Of course not.

Economic indicators all show recovery. Businesses are making money. In fact, they're loving it because we are all so brainwashed, now, into believing the doom and gloom that we don't even question the outrageous price gouging that we're seeing. We've got artificial hyper inflation - all to pad the margins and pay the stockholders.

The entire concept that Romney will be vastly different than Obama is a smokescreen and nothing more.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Also why is it ok for Unions to do it, but not owners?

Can you source a modern case where unions threatened the employment of their members based upon the results of a Presidential race? Where a union said "If candidate x wins, some of you might lose your jobs"?

~Heff

reply to post by 3chainz


The entire argument is based on the assumption and insinuation that employees would be easily led or easily scared.

It's not like somebody would be following you into the voting booth with a baseball bat either.

I would say most American employees will vote for who they think is best anyway.

Many union workers do... In fact, I bet many union workers (or former) will be voting for Romney !!

Sure some would "go along with the program" on the surface but will vote their hearts one way or the other.

Besides, maybe Romney Will save some jobs with new policies.

Originally posted by Hefficide


Can you source a modern case where unions threatened the employment of their members based upon the results of a Presidential race? Where a union said "If candidate x wins, some of you might lose your jobs"?

~Heff

Really cant find anything on that. The closest thing I remember is this.

Members of the Wisconsin State Employees Union, AFSCME Council 24, have begun circulating letters to businesses in southeast Wisconsin, warning that they will face a boycott if they don't support collective bargaining for public employee unions.

The letters ask businesses to express that support by displaying union signs in their windows.

"Failure to do so will leave us no choice but (to) do a public boycott of your business," the letter says. "And sorry, neutral means 'no' to those who work for the largest employer in the area and are union members."

Union threatens boycott of any business that doesn't show support


This had "Politics" and "Job Loss", as well as lost revenue, all in one. Its strong armed tactics, in MHO.

Originally posted by Hefficide

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

What is the difference in telling your son if Candidate X wins you will probably lose your house, and a business owner telling their employees if Candidate Y wins I will probably have to close my doors.

Where is the logic in this statement? Facts to back it up? It is fear mongering based totally upon supposition. What if the entire country votes for Romney - and then Romney says "Now that I am in office, I've had a look at the big picture, and it is necessary for the nation to drop the Bush tax cuts."?

Are these business owners going to say "Shucks. Well promises are promises - so no matter how bad it gets, you ALL have jobs!"

Of course not.

Economic indicators all show recovery. Businesses are making money. In fact, they're loving it because we are all so brainwashed, now, into believing the doom and gloom that we don't even question the outrageous price gouging that we're seeing. We've got artificial hyper inflation - all to pad the margins and pay the stockholders.

The entire concept that Romney will be vastly different than Obama is a smokescreen and nothing more.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Also why is it ok for Unions to do it, but not owners?

Can you source a modern case where unions threatened the employment of their members based upon the results of a Presidential race? Where a union said "If candidate x wins, some of you might lose your jobs"?

~Heff

Unions have one function. Employment. A union endorsing a candidate is by default that union saying that candidate will be best for the employees. If they are endorsing candidates for other reasons then that's appalling.

reply to post by sonnny1


I was actually going to link to that, but I felt no need as by their very nature Union endorsements are about telling the employee what is good for his employment. My job Union should not be telling me to vote for someone unless it helps me in work related issues. That is the sole purpose of the union. They have no business telling me what is correct in moral matters.

Originally posted by Hefficide
Economic indicators all show recovery. Businesses are making money. In fact, they're loving it because we are all so brainwashed, now, into believing the doom and gloom that we don't even question the outrageous price gouging that we're seeing. We've got artificial hyper inflation - all to pad the margins and pay the stockholders.

Then they should all be wanting Obama to stay so they can rake in more money, and they should tell their employees that. If they will lose all this money if Romney wins then they will endorse Obama, as it should be. Romney didn't say endorse me, in fact he went out of his way to say they should speak up even if they like Obama. The only fear mongering in this post is from your side of the aisle my friend.

Originally posted by 3chainz

Secret recordings have not been kind to Romney. The presidential candidate just began recovering from secretly recorded video in a Boca Raton $50,000 per plate fundraiser, where Romney was caught insulting 47% of voters and wishing he could capitalize on a more authentically Mexican father. Immediately following the release, he began suffering backlash, even among his own party members.

Now, he’s caught on audio asking business owners to tell employees who to vote for, urging them to tell their subordinates how their jobs might be affected by voting against company interests.

“I hope you make it very clear to your employees what you believe is in the best interest of your enterprise and therefore their job and their future in the upcoming elections. And whether you agree with me or you agree with President Obama, or whatever your political view, I hope — I hope you pass those along to your employees. Nothing illegal about you talking to your employees about what you believe is best for the business, because I think that will figure into their election decision, their voting decision and of course doing that with your family and your kids as well.”

www.examiner.com...

You know, just, pretty much insinuate your employees how to vote if they want to keep their job. Fear monger as much as possible, just lightly extort them.. It isn't illegal as long as you use the right words. Let them know how how important you are as a "job creator" and that they should know their place and worship you. It's not like consumers don't create jobs...ONLY you o "job creator", your opinion is the one that matters.

It's a shame peasants have a right to vote anyway. So what if they are hungry and have to live off food stamps, I'm not trying to pay them a living wage. They can go dumpster dive or whatever...social programs need to get cut anyway, I need more corporate welfare.

edit on 18-10-2012 by 3chainz because: (no reason given)

I believe this comes down to credibility, and ethics. If Mr. Romney is unwilling to ask for support in that way publicly, he shouldnt be doing it at private fundraisers for the ultra rich. If you cant say it to the average american person without worry of judgement, its probably unethical.

The premise of the OP has a very basic flaw.

Here in America, we use something called a secret ballot.

That means that you are alone when you vote.

There is no one there to verify which candidate you voted for in an election. The purpose of this is to prevent voters from casting a ballot under duress, as in an employer telling their employees who to vote for in an election.

How can an employer force an employee to vote for a particular candidate?

What Romney was doing was campaigning, and Obama does the same thing.

ETA: I believe there probably more than a few 'Solyndra' type (although solvent) companies that rely on government loans and funding telling their employees how they should vote, and that is okay too.

reply to post by SamLuv


We have already shown both parties do this, and there is nothing wrong with it. Obama supporters are grasping at straws here. We would be better off as a nation if we all engaged each other about politics on election years, instead many people go to the polls with no knowledge at all.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


To the contrary, I have yet to see any examples of this from the Democratic party. Sonny provided links to a local union threatening to boycott local businesses that did not support the union. That is not the same thing at all. This is voter intimidation, on a national scale, by prominent businessmen, and now we have the Republican Presidential candidate holding the smoking gun.

Empty rhetoric is not going to cut it on this. The tactic of the RNC is plain for all to see - well those who aren't consumed with party based allegiances at least. Comparing this to some local union boycott is like defending a serial killer by saying "Well, we've all lost our tempers before - so even Steven...."

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

To the contrary, I have yet to see any examples of this from the Democratic party. Sonny provided links to a local union threatening to boycott local businesses that did not support the union. That is not the same thing at all. This is voter intimidation, on a national scale, by prominent businessmen, and now we have the Republican Presidential candidate holding the smoking gun.

Empty rhetoric is not going to cut it on this. The tactic of the RNC is plain for all to see - well those who aren't consumed with party based allegiances at least. Comparing this to some local union boycott is like defending a serial killer by saying "Well, we've all lost our tempers before - so even Steven...."

~Heff

Unions threatening businesses is voter intimidation. This is simply Romney telling employers to talk to employees. Tell me, what does Romney suggest they say that is intimidation?

As I already told you, by their VERY NATURE, unions telling members to vote a certain way are telling them their job is more secure if they do so. I'm sorry you don't get it. Unless you think the union wants to elect the candidate that will hurt the workers jobs, is that what you are suggesting?

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Unions threatening businesses is voter intimidation. This is simply Romney telling employers to talk to employees. Tell me, what does Romney suggest they say that is intimidation?

Red herring. If I go and tell my neighbor to cut his yard or else, I am technically "intimidating a voter" but that is not the same thing as voter intimidation. Sonny's example union ( the only one that Sonny could find, and which has been offered by anyone thus far ) was extorting business practices - not votes.

Now if the union had put out signs saying "Vote for Obama or we may not do further business with you" that would apply. As it happens, it does not. Apples and oranges. Red herring. False association, whatever you wish to call it.

The employers who have sent these letters out ( the Koch Brothers and a resort owner in Florida, as I am currently aware of ) are indirectly threatening their employees with possible unemployment if the current President is reelected.

Now, what would happen if I were to approach that same neighbor about his lawn and I were to say "You know, if your lawn doesn't get mowed - bad things might happen to you. I am not telling you to mow your lawn. I am just stating, in general, that a bad thing could happen..."

I would likely find myself in jail, with terroristic threat charges pending.

The RNC is actively engaging in large scale terroristic threat.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

As I already told you, by their VERY NATURE, unions telling members to vote a certain way are telling them their job is more secure if they do so. I'm sorry you don't get it. Unless you think the union wants to elect the candidate that will hurt the workers jobs, is that what you are suggesting?

Yes, you have told me this. I suspect you will keep telling me, and others as well. Unfortunately you are not substantiating any of it. Mitt Romney is ON TAPE making these suggestions. Can you please provide me with any proof, whatsoever, of the DNC using this same tactic, on any level? Can you source a single letter from any employer that says "If Obama is not reelected, you may find yourself unemployed?"

My prediction? You'll skirt that question by saying something like "No businesses want Obama, so that will not ever happen."

I await the evidence.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


So they have to put out signs? Telling the businesses verbally isn't intimidation? Well then it's good thing Romney told these businesses and didn't use signs. Phew. We should just drop it. You will never admit your hypocrisy.

Show me where Romney is asking the businesses to tell their employees to vote for him, and I will look for the evidence you asked. Where did Romney tell them to say "If Romney is not elected, you may find yourself unemployed".

I will wait for it, although I suppose you will just skirt the issue.