FACT Romney Pays 15% You Pay 30%

reply to post by sealing


How many millions have you given to charity and how many thousands of jobs have you created? Contributing to society does not start and end with how much of your money the IRS confiscates. That's a very shallow view of human nature and civilization.

Originally posted by mikellmikell
I have 2 businesses last year and paid about 3-4%. I don't go anywhere or do anything thats not tax deductable. Disney for 2 weeks spend $200 on a conference room for an hour and have a meeting. Bingo Thank You

so another american tax payer subsidized your disney vacation with your fraud.

i bet you're the kind of guy that doesn't want "your" money paying for healthcare.

these are the kind of loopholes and fraud that people like romney engage in and enjoy.

and that the rest of the working slaves have to sit by and subsidize without a single friggin voice in the whole of government standing up for them.

Someone just has to explain where these numbers keep coming from to suggest the Poor or middle Class pay more than the rich. It's absolutely false, provably so and by that...it's an outright LIE when told by those in power who absolutely KNOW better.

Distribution of Household income and taxes by Income group

to save everyone some time reading. I'll hit the highlights with one. The rest is in the above report with all the legalese to explain terms and definitions. It's pretty much what it looks like, if that helps though. The numbers are what the numbers are and spin works for subjective things. This isn't subjective. It's absolute and it's right there for anyone to read. How the spin keeps going...is one of those mysteries I'll never quite get.

Share of Federal Tax Liabilities by Income Group - Defined in % of liability per bracket.

Originally posted by sicksonezer0
I hear lots of whining op. So by what you are saying Mr. 'CEO' is when you make it big, you want to pay more taxes and out of the other side of your mouth you have a small business and because you haven't grown your business you are paying too much taxes?

I agree taxes should be lowered, buy you can't pick and choose who, as it is right now its unfair, but you want your cake and eat it too.

Taxes should be one rate for everyone.

It isnt about fair and unfair, its about what works. The total savings rate cant be too big, else too much money is drained out of the system and has to be infused by the central bank, which means inflation.

The less people manage to put away more and more money, the higher the saving rate becomes. If 1% accumulate like 90% of the wealth, they are going to put only a fraction of it back in the real economy.

An economy lives off many people having disposable income which they spend, unfortunately many people have no disposable income and even a lot of debt, while most of the money moves into hands whom do not spend it. The only acceptable cure for the disease is poison, firing up the printing press, which in turn means inflation, because measures that would part the very wealthy of a big chunk of their money, (not Romney, the people whom see Romneys wealth as small fries) would be seen as communist and anti freedom.

All valid points, at the same time people refuse to see the problems of a capitalist system, that allows for a high saving rate.

How many millions have you given to charity and how many thousands of jobs have you created? Contributing to society does not start and end with how much of your money the IRS confiscates. That's a very shallow view of human nature and civilization.

Very true, but if you own billions or even trillions, why risk it on some adventure, if you can just park it in the bank and rake in the Millions in percentage.

Think about it, if you tax capital at the same rate as labor then capital WILL LEAVE the USA. Your 30% is based on your labor(we have an excess of labor) and his 15% is based on capital...The US Dollar is hurting You hurt yourself by demanding Capital to pay 30%

Thats the mindset that needs to change. As long as its tax rate it sounds sexy, but how about buisness leaving central Europe and America, because in India and China are workers whom can be put to work under appaling conditions by repressive regimes? One can only hope the Chinese and Indians (not the redskins) will get fed up to see so much money pass them to end up in the pockets of shareholders, that they will start looking into unions too.

reply to post by randomname
You shouldn't talk about fraud. At least three of Mitt Romney's top "Super Pac" donors identified are fat cats in the "multi level marketing" (MLM) field. Those identified are the heads of NuSkin (Blake Roney and Steven Lund who each gave $1 million to fund a shell company) and Melaleuca and it's owner Frank VanderSloot.

Originally posted by Merinda

Thats the mindset that needs to change. As long as its tax rate it sounds sexy, but how about buisness leaving central Europe and America, because in India and China are workers whom can be put to work under appaling conditions by repressive regimes? One can only hope the Chinese and Indians (not the redskins) will get fed up to see so much money pass them to end up in the pockets of shareholders, that they will start looking into unions too.

edit on 18-10-2012 by Merinda because: (no reason given)

Actually this is a biased spin on what the problem is. It is the ridiculously low wages and abysmal conditions of the workers in China VERSUS the Unionized over-paid underproducing workers in America that shifted the corporations to move manufacturing to other countries.

If we're going to talk the real dirt about the issue, let's be honest on both sides. It wasn't JUST cheap labor in China, it was out-of-control wages due to Unions in America. A corporation won't stay in business if it can't compete.

why do people ignore that wealth can be created?

its not a finite resource like a basket of apples.

if the economy is working correctly wealth can be created. i dont care if 90% of the current wealth is in 1% of peoples hands. bill gates having 50 billion dollars of wealth is not stopping me from raising my own wealth. its not the same as one person taking 9 of the 10 apples in the basket and thats that, no more apples.


and its a sad sad world we live in when people dont understand the most basic of concepts such as simple math, or tax brackets. even if romney only paid 15% on income. if he ends up paying $5,000,000 in taxes and you pay $5,000. how do you come to the conclusion that he didnt pay a fair share? wtf is your definition of fair?

were doomed with this many people that think the way op does. doomed.

reply to post by pngxp

Great way to put it and it hits it right on, IMO! The Politicians whose whole business now seems to be to drive us against each other in class, race and status wars would convince people that this is a 0 sum situation and like you say, one man having money means another man must have lost some for that to happen.

It almost sounds logical enough to believe...if one has a TV understanding of economics, anyway. I guess that's the scary part of it, huh? The message is being eaten up and people are at each other's throats, thinking the ones with something STOLE it from others who lost in the process.

reply to post by sealing


Full of it.

I person making less than $100k per year is not paying 30% in taxes. If self-employed, and not very good at doing taxes, and counting the double SS an double MC tax, then maybe it gets close to 30%, but there is a cap on Social Security and Medicare tax, so after you reach the threshhold, the more you make the lower your percentage becomes automatically.

If you are a small business owner, playing multiple roles in your company, and having little net worth, but still paying 30% in income tax, then you need to invest in a good business manager and/or accountant. It will save you money to spend a little extra on hiring a professional.

The main difference between an ultra-success like Bain Capital, and a struggling business man with a good product but limited success lies in a few key decisions. Paying 30% in taxes is just poor business practice.

Originally posted by sealing
Fact: Romney pays 15% I pay 30%


I'm a small business owner.
Very small, like I'm CEO and Janitor.
I pay about 30% in taxes. (28.5)

No, you don't. You are playing the apples and oranges game. First, make sure you take out the "self employment tax" which is really social security. Is social security bad? That's another topic. The point is that it is not income taxes.

Secondly, the 28.5% is the MARGINAL tax rate. That means that the next dollar you earn is taxed at 28.5%. But that does not include teh standarde deduction, or any deductions and credits you may have on your return. My marginal tax rate is also 28.5%. But my ACTUAL tax rate is 17%. That's because income is taxed this way:

•10% on taxable income from $0 to $8,700, plus
•15% on taxable income over $8,700 to $35,350, plus
•25% on taxable income over $35,350 to $85,650, plus
•28% on taxable income over $85,650 to $178,650, plus
•33% on taxable income over $178,650 to $388,350, plus
•35% on taxable income over $388,350.

So right off the bat you are misunderstanding, perhaps willfully, how income taxes work.

Now, consider this. Romney's tax rate was 15%, but that represents millions of dollars. You and I paid in the thousands, but Romney paid exponentially more in income taxes than we did.

You get all upset because you are fixating on a percentage, a percentage that you don't even know for your own income. Why do you not think Romney is paying his "fair share"? What does "fair" mean to you. Romney paid several million dollars in taxes. You and I paid a few thousand in taxes. 47% of households paid no income taxes at all. We spent $1 trillion on welfare last year.

"Taxes" are YOUR MONEY being confiscated by the government and diverted to whatever program some special interest group lobbies for.