Fukushima Unit 4 sinking, structure on verge of complete collapse

reply to post by happykat39


I edited that within a couple of minute, I figured they could have ten trucks going in a day. I forgot to enter that into the post when I wrote it originally You must have read it right after I wrote it, I changed it after finding I had forgot to enter that part.

Just my two cents....but if anyone would like to see what is happening there....I have a large number of photos from that facility and shot in the last 45 days. This includes the work done to shore up and stabilize Unit 4 as well as the regular and fairly steady work at literally disassembling, one piece at a time.

It's not downplaying the long term of the crisis and so much is unknown. Little things...like where the reactor core piles are at the moment. Are they even still inside the buildings? Above Grade? Umm.. Everyone really HOPES so but hope is a fickle thing to trust. Anyway.... Here is Fuku in September in full color..

(Oh...and there are people working around those buildings. I have NO IDEA where anyone got the idea the grounds of the facility were THAT radioactive. It's bad...it's not doomsday bad, at least, it's not at the moment It's apparently a pretty busy work site. )

Debris Removal Operations - Unit 3 / Includes overhead of Spent Fuel Pool

Current Status Report - Sept 2012 / Includes photos of completed reconstruction for South wall, Unit 4

Removal of RPV Lid - Unit 4 - Sept 2012

Here are some older sets for comparison and general views.
Unit 4 Overview photos - July 2012

Fukushima Overall - Various times across 2012

Why cant "They" build a concrete dome, split it in to 4 segments, add some runners under the pieces and push said segments together over the reactor? This should reduce the radiation enough so they can then lead line the dome or use some other wonder material to add extra shielding. Guess this does nothing regarding the reactor melting into the ground and then into the water table. But still they need to act! I suppose any structure built over the reactor would also sink.

reply to post by rickymouse


Yes, it is obvious that I quoted and replied to your post almost as soon as you first put it up. And if they could remove ten rods a day that would make the timetable much better and make it more likely they could remove the rods before anything else happens. My question is; are they actually removing the rods at that rate???

I actually made the top end sub-assemblies for the fuel rod canisters for the EBR 2 fast breeder reactor in Idaho. The canisters were hexagonal and I know that special lifting equipment was needed to hold the rods and orient them properly for insertion and removal. Side note - When you make something that goes into the core of a reactor the paperwork is a bloody nightmare. They must have a similar setup for the Fukushima rods. But is it still usable or did they have to build a new setup to remove them after the accident and is the new equipment, if built, as efficient as the old.

So far the only thing I have seen is that the removal is "on track". But just what does that mean?

But no matter how fast they are working they are still in a race against time and the fickle finger of fate.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Hey, thanks for the great pictures. You seem to know a lot about this incident so what are the chances they will have the rods removed in a reasonable time?

reply to post by JrDavis


Oh, I wasn't in anyway recommending "giving up". I was speaking about whether from the backside (grouting techniques) the mitigation can take place. If the subsidence is seen as something that has no predicted "end in sight", then something else is going to have to be done. I guess they could set up a cement silo and a high-pressure pumping station and just do an "endless grout job"...lol, might actually work. Point is, I don't know what the predictions are on the subsidence we're discussing here. Has anyone seen any modeled predictions on whether this is thought to be temporary or what???

reply to post by andy06shake


The problem is that the BOTTOM is falling out which will lead to loss of cooling fluids. A dome is not going to help. Concrete won't hold up to the intense heat we're talking about if there is a meltdown. Instead you'll just have a mushroom puff of radioactive crap when the pressure builds in the dome and it fails.

The BOTTOM has to be reinforced to contain the cooling water.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


Well, actually, yes they can grout without "getting to" the basement. They just directionally drill from a distance until they can run high-pressure iron to pump through. Then they perform the grout job from a distance. This is not technically impossible.

Originally posted by letseeit7
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

How do you know all this ? For the record the Japanese got screwed with the worst designed reactors . Not all plants have the same set up ! And I can tell you for sure we dont have the same set up here in the US . I rarely log into ATS as it has become like youtube and its just back and forth banter . Where is your proof , oh yah well where is yours , and so on . I will only post once and I WILL NOT reply again . I work for the military at a nuclear shipyard . I have constant training for handling nuclear material , also for decon . We monitor levels everyday here and have seen such a slight increase in levels , not enough too become chicken little like most people . Relax Japans radiation disaster is not going to end the world , so please stop with the doom and gloom . The only people that are going to suffer are the Japanese , to them it will be like chernoble , I am sure I spelled that wrong so make sure someone points that out ! It helps to take away my credability . Now don't get me wrong what has happened there is pretty bad and I feel sorry for them . But it will not stop me from going there to support the washington on the next avail . That's that big aircraft carrier in case you did'nt know . The internet has plenty of real info on this subject if you just do some research from CREDIBLE sources , not the tinfoil hat army , as you find on these sites . Not to offend but some of the post and comments are just assnine . Well its late and I work in the early A.M. good luck and goodnight . P.S. The solution to pollution is dillution , it's a navy saying

here are a couple threads and links i have been monitoring, along with my own rain swipes i have been doing for many months now.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

pissinontheroses.blogspot.com...

fukushima-diary.com...

i implore you to not let the lack of msm news coverage deter you from know the truth yourself. this is for anyone who is interested in up to the minute accurate, well as accurate as we can get, reports from Fukushima.

i appreciate yours and anyone's optimistic viewpoint and no i'm not a fear monger nor a doom and gloom person, but on the other hand i'm not a doormat and refuse to candy coat the situation.

Originally posted by Valhall
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

Well, actually, yes they can grout without "getting to" the basement. They just directionally drill from a distance until they can run high-pressure iron to pump through. Then they perform the grout job from a distance. This is not technically impossible.

the RAD levels would make any equipment or people used expire rather quickly and you seem like a knowledgeable person so i would ask that you do some in depth research on the situation and perhaps people like you can figure this thing out. btw you can't grout a molten radioactive fire ball, it just doesn't work from my research findings i have read.

P.S.

i'm really not a doom and gloom person but on the other hand i'm not going to lie to people just to make the situation sound better, we have tepco, Japanese government and our own government to do that.

some fresh readings i got from a rain swipe this morning here in Pennsylvania, background- 23-34 CPM rains swipe 150-162 CPM which as we can sadly see is 6 times background and in many places considered radioactive waste at those levels.

i think it's inherently wrong to lie to people just so they don't do whatever you think they may as this seems to be rampant with this situation.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

Okay, first off, drilling can take place from a tremendous distance...so I think you and I are not talking about the same set-up.

Second, the grouting job would not take place at the point of a "molten fireball". That's what is trying to be prevented, right? The containment is still intact. The grout job takes place BENEATH the ground. Under high pressure you literally hydraulically lift the foundation and simultaneously place cement into the space you create. It's been done under major skyscrapers in metropolitan areas.

The point being, I do firmly believe there is technology out there to ATTEMPT a fix under the reactor BEFORE a meltdown occurs. After the meltdown I don't know what you do...run I guess.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


And on P.S. your comment about lying to people wasn't aimed at me, was it? I'm not trying to lie about anything. I'm just setting here brainstorming about the technology that could be used to try to prevent what sounds like something that would leave a rather wide-reaching permanent scar.

Is that okay?

reply to post by Valhall


that's just it, "they" have no idea what they would be drilling into. they have no idea if the meltdown is contained or a hundred feet down already. the pressure release of contaminated material would be tremendous if they would hit such a thing. i think it's the not knowing part that deters them from such a task. i do applaud any and all thinkers on this issue because i know damn well tepco wont be fixing this mess.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


Well, can you tell me, because based on your comment, I'm now confused. I thought the containment was still intact and the concern is that this rapid GROUND subsidence under the containment is leading to fears (legitimate) that the stresses will cause a breech in the floor of the containment, drain the cooling water, and lead to a meltdown.

You are talking like the containment has already drained and the meltdown has occurred (or is occurring). Which is it??? Do you know?

reply to post by Valhall


the fear is not in it breaching containment, it is in the entire structure collapsing and exposing the core. they have no idea whats happening in the basement or in the soil under the reactor. the fact that it is sinking lends merit to the theory that some of the meltdown has in fact reached deep into the ground under the reactor.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


Okay, gotcha. If that is the case...whole new ball game. In fact, game over. I'm not sure what you do then...I'm back to run.

I hope they are wrong. Because if this is a matter of ground subsidence and the containment is still intact, there is a chance to prevent the meltdown. If it has drained and melted into the ground...it's Hail Mary time. Only I'm not sure which way we throw the ball anymore.

Thank you for the discussion.

reply to post by Valhall


YVW it's all i can do from my home in the US is to at least share the real data we have on fukushima, at least then people know where they stand and possibly a solution may be found. i think the way our world leaders are treating this situation is a gross tragedy in and of itself. if they quit lying and got everyone on board perhaps we could fix this mess and or at least buy some time until we can.

it's gut wrenching to see how much BS political time is spent on other issues real and fake, verses a very real one we currently have. what are they thinking? it's beyond me amigo.

My belief from about day 2...

A corporation should not be trusted to solve this issue. The best nuclear and engineering people in the world should have be brought into the situation to formulate and execute a plan. It has been allowed to deteriorate to a point where there may be no solution with a reasonable end result. Seems more like a crap shoot by Tepco with them blinded by a gambler's infinite optimism.

Originally posted by Arken
14,225 fuel rods. Is this is the number of the atomic apocalypse? If Unit 4 collapse, not only Japan ruins, but the entire world will also face serious damages.

According to the Secretary of former Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan, the ground beneath Unit 4 has already sunk by about 31.5 inches since the disaster, and this sinking has taken place unevenly. If the ground continues to sink, which it is expected to, or if another earthquake of even as low as a magnitude six occurs in the region, the entire structure could collapse, which would fully drain the cooling pool and cause a catastrophic meltdown.

Extremely disturbing Arken, it is as if many feel if they ignore whats going on over there it will go away. Many are not acknowledging the long term global effects this is and will continue to have on the population/above ground species of EA*RTH and other animal life. And until taken care of with a massive global effort it seems the species may have to pay for this well those who cannot hide in deep penetrating cells underground. I hope the people of Japan who can avoid that region have already. And pray for those stuck financially who cannot evacuate that some type of intervention assistance occurs getting them away from there before it begins its acceleration phase melt down process if that in the future. It seems unless some higher technology is applied to this mess the EA*RTH may be about to take a loss due to contamination in that region smh. Arken thanks for the update

NAMASTE*******

[color=gold]Instead of concrete dome I think a heavy freeze over of the below ground and above ground would help. Within the freeze process neutralizing agents / materials (metal flakes or something like that) are applied to ice ground and over ground to speed up decontamination of the nuclear materials and exposed contaminated materials so in the end it will look like an ice ball island above ground below the ocean and within the ground.. this will slow the atmospheric / oceanic nuclear exposure going on, giving the scientist of EA*RTH more time to combat against it (together/globally) freeze and later even dissect frozen parts and remove or destroy. Trying to present technology that EA*RTH should be able to use.