Let's stop spending money and paying taxes

What would happen if everyone stopped paying money to these corrupt corporations and stopped paying taxes to our corrupt war loving governments.

They would probably institute martial law. Force people into prison camps. And make an even more corrupt version of a country.

It would be a short while before they would have no capacity to enforce martial law.

Military is dumb,without scorched earth policy,there is always a place of refuge,even then they sometimes miss.

Good luck with getting those you are surrounded by to give up those luxuries they have become so addicted to.

I have been teling people for years to "Stop Feeding the Monster",and it will starve,but they don't hear.

reply to post by truthermantwo


We would win. Instantly. Within a day. The catch is we'd all have to do it. Not just 99%. But all.

~Heff

reply to post by truthermantwo


Everything our taxes pay for will collapse. Schools, hospitals, fire and emergency, the rubbish man, public transport etc etc.

Unless you're a hardcore survivalist or rich enough to buy/bribe yourself survival, you'll most likely end up dead or someone who is stronger/smarter than you's bitch.

Would be like living like our ancestors did 5000 years ago.

That's not winning..well it is if you're strong/fit/smart/skilled I guess, but most aren't...

Originally posted by AlphaHawk
reply to post by truthermantwo

 

Everything our taxes pay for will collapse. Schools, hospitals, fire and emergency, the rubbish man, public transport etc etc.

Unless you're a hardcore survivalist or rich enough to buy/bribe yourself survival, you'll most likely end up dead or someone who is stronger/smarter than you's bitch.

Would be like living like our ancestors did 5000 years ago.

That's not winning..well it is if you're strong/fit/smart/skilled I guess, but most aren't...

edit on 18-10-2012 by AlphaHawk because: (no reason given)

Pretty much. People want the same services, they just want them for free.

Heh. I said the same thing, and someone here told me the body count would match that of WWI. Only if everyone is selfish and misanthropic to the core. The key is everyone helping each other out, through hard times. I know it's a foreign concept that's very difficult to grasp, but hey... we've got no future if we don't learn to help each other out. It's us against them. Not every man for himself. Just my opinion.

reply to post by AlphaHawk


To the contrary. If everyone simply stopped paying for things, just for a few days? Businesses would be begging for our patronage again. We would not return to dark ages. But we would rebalance the scale of equity in the world. The reason that everything is so expensive right now is because we have been willing to pay "what the market will bear" without question.

Guess what? Stop buying a product for a few days and let them see what the market will really bear, and they will adjust their profit margins to accommodate demand and consumer tolerance.

We are the governing dynamic of consumerism and of capitalism... We've just become so empathetic and jaded that we fear them more than we should. We've forgotten that it is they who should fear us.

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by AlphaHawk

 

To the contrary. If everyone simply stopped paying for things, just for a few days? Businesses would be begging for our patronage again. We would not return to dark ages. But we would rebalance the scale of equity in the world. The reason that everything is so expensive right now is because we have been willing to pay "what the market will bear" without question.

Guess what? Stop buying a product for a few days and let them see what the market will really bear, and they will adjust their profit margins to accommodate demand and consumer tolerance.

We are the governing dynamic of consumerism and of capitalism... We've just become so empathetic and jaded that we fear them more than we should. We've forgotten that it is they who should fear us.

~Heff

I agree, and that is how I live my life every day. If I do not think something is worth the cost I won't get it. I don't buy Starbucks, I make my own at home or go without. I don't buy game consoles, or DVDs. The fact is the system you talk about is already in place, many companies go bankrupt. The ones that succeed do so because the people have told them they will shell the money out. The idea prices would come down may not be accurate though, they may simply go out of business as lowering prices too much would prevent the business from being profitable.

This is exactly what I've advocated right here on this site for years now. It's really great to see others coming to this same conclusion. It would take no time at all for things to change. Those who value money above all else would learn just exactly what money is really worth. You can't buy what can't be bought. Those who think they're "doing it on their own" would really find out just how many they rely on to keep that delusion alive. Let's not assist those folks anymore!

Try this: Work only as much as you need to pay for a roof over your head and some basic foods. Start using unrefined sea salt in your food. Sell everything you don't need. Just sell it off. It's dead weight. That includes magazines, newspapers, radio, and tv.

As you find you need things, pick them up used from flea markets, friends and relatives, or whoever just wants to get rid of that thing. Chances are that you won't need much and you'll want even less.

Replace soap with salt or baking soda too. It does a better job and without dangerous chemicals while still allowing your body's bacterial layer to thrive.

I still think if people started with something easy like not using their ATM/Debit cards all the time.
Banks and credit companies make sooooo much money on transaction fees.
All those rewards programs they entice people with to rely on the cards.
They think we are to lazy to stop by the bank first to use real money.
Local businesses would love it if you used cash.
Plus the banks lobbyists are trying to overturn this www.nerdwallet.com... The Durbin Act.

reply to post by obnoxiouschick


That too is something I've said all this time as well: If and when you buy, do so with cash.

I don't use cards at all. I have no atm card even. They don't exist here. The most basic card is VISA Electron. I have one loyalty card anymore - because it's the only shop I'm loyal to. Most people anymore have a wallet full of them. How is that loyalty?

I had another loyalty card until not too very long ago, only because my kids used that department store now and then. I went to replace something that wasn't working well. The shift leader for that section was training a couple of new employees and was incredibly rude to me, talking to me as though I had no idea how the item worked. One of the trainees pointed out that it really didn't work and that the display item demonstrated that to be true. She exchanged the item. I then said to the shift leader, "Here is my loyalty card. I won't be needing it anymore."

This is all about taking back the power that is our own. Exercise it far and wide. Remember how strong you are.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


I stopped going to the places that track your purchases.... it's just creepy.

What's funny is people say they want all this change and complain about CEO's bonuses, but ask them to change a simple habit to make a difference....oh no.
They made it easy for us on purpose, you may spend more, which resulted in higher fees when it was calculated by a %. People are so used to using plastic it's like a crutch. These are also the people(generation) that didn't get their bank accounts frozen in the 80's with the Saving & Loans scandal.

Originally posted by truthermantwo
What would happen if everyone stopped paying money to these corrupt corporations and stopped paying taxes to our corrupt war loving governments.

They would probably institute martial law. Force people into prison camps. And make an even more corrupt version of a country.

Nope. The govt, elected representatives of you and me, will just simply close shop as there will be no funds to run essential services - from clearing our garbages to paying the administrators to manage, regulate, maintain check and balances of governance and private enterprises, and generally - run the nation.

It will be back to the jungles. May you have strengths, for it will become the survival of the fittest, if other nations do not start walking all over us as there will be no paid military worth a damn to take care of us all. They will have their hands full looking after their own.

As for corporations, the chief executive staff will just laff at the silliness of americans, wave them goodbye, thanks for the stupidity of taxpayers naive trust, support and expenditure for their growth, and enjoy the sunshine in China, India, Asia, Africa, etc, pumping and pimping money into real estate there to see returns, be spared of manufacturing headaches.

SHARING is the only way societies can grow. Greed is ok if within conscionable bounds, as it gives drive and ambition to the weak minded, but too much of it, as the corporations had shown in 08, will and had doom society. The gambling in the stock exchanges, pimping of properties and the lowering of wages had only made them staggeringly rich and powerful, but only power without responsibilities unlike the earlier generations of rich americans.

Sitting on obscene TRILLIONS of hoaded wealth, and an angry hungry humanity, they are only delusively hoping mankind will accept defeat, make mistakes and grovel back to them, accepting whatever left over from the masters table being thrown out.

The only way out is to share, even if it is only a dollar contribution. 300 million americans will make 300 million dollars to share around for critical services. And another dollar to the restaurant, cinema, taxi, or mom-pop shop will help them have a bit of wealth from consumers, to contribute and circulate it to others and end resulting in the growth of the economy, instead of the moribund or stagnation.

And when the congress deadlock over the bailout of americans, not banks, is brokened, more wealth will be circulated to grow the economy, with a low dollar, inflation regulated and checked by the treasury, govt regulation to increase wages to keep up with inflation, curtail property speculations, bring hi tech jobs home, increase training expenditure to groom future and current workers to such jobs, etc, etc.

Corruption had been with us since the dawn of civilisation and not easily eradicated. It takes time, patience and education. It will be lower, as it can be far more easily monitored today with instant communication for sharing of information in truly democratic states. There can be faith in the system still, espacially when more are awakened today and not easily fobbed off as during the days of our forefathers.

Its a great idea but you could do one better. You could use something like an alternative form of money that is sound (like Bitcoin or precious metals) as a competing currency, and if EVERYONE did it (or at least a lot), it would bring the Controllers to their knees.

Non-participation is the key. You can pay your bills to the right people for the right things, but use something as payment that doesn't involve the money-changers, and you change the world.

great plan

you go first !

reply to post by AlphaHawk


First I would like to say that I am not picking on you, but I have seen these types of comments before and I would like to clear up a few things.

The first full-time paid professional fire department in the United States started on On April 1, 1853, in Cincinnati, Ohio

The first city police department was in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1751.

EMS wasn't professionalized in the US until the early 1970's. Most small communities used the local funeral home as the hearses were the only vehicles built specifically to transport a person laying down. Many early ambulances were retired hearses in the larger communities and until the 1970's were private companies.

Curbside trash collection as we envision it today wasn't until the early 20th century. Heck the whole idea only started in Paris, France in 1884. And Glad didn't start making the familiar green trash bag until the 1960's.

Taxpayer funded public education predates the Revolutionary War. I believe the first was a Puritan community. Prior to that, education was privately funded, generally on a barter system of meals and lodging for the teacher by and within the community. Think of Ichabod Crane in Sleepy Hollow who was given a room and ate with the different families of the students each night. Free public education was set in Constitution as a compromise with Thomas Jefferson who wanted free college level education for deserving hopefuls bases on their chance of academic success in their field. Which is quite different than the Pell Grants and Loans of today which are determined by financial need. Basically if you were an inept klutz prone to forgetfulness, Jefferson would not have paid for you to become a surgeon...lawyer or politician maybe, but not a surgeon.

All in all, society would continue or fail on its own merits in small communities without our current structure of society. More or less advances forms of Ancient Greece's city-states or the Native American tribes that were doing rather well comparatively to the Old World prior to Columbus's arrival. What they lacked was technological advances and enough wars to have organized into countries for mutual protection like Europe did. Although some tribes were starting to do so prior to the arrival due to their own conflicts, such as the Cherokee who absorbed defeated tribes into their own much like the Roman Empire did. Had the New World not be discovered and colony attempts made until 1800-1900, it may not have gone beyond establishing trading outposts along the coastline.

reply to post by AlphaHawk


That is why most will defend the system tooth and nail even if they are now multi-generational slaves to it, there is no turning back for most people...

reply to post by fourthmeal


Exchanging one form of currency for another will make no difference. You have to take them to a level where they cannot breathe anymore. You have to cut off their blood flow. Money is what feeds them and lack of it is the only thing that will weaken them.

It's really not hard to live on precious little. Really, it feels good to live in a very uncomplicated manner. Once you get rid of the idea that new, shiny stuff is cool, you can get down to seeing the real value in things. Bit by bit you find that you don't even want any of that crap anymore. And before long, you have a whole lot of peace of mind, body, and spirit.

I honestly don't know why people cry about austerity. It's really very nice. I've been at it for several years now (because of my own debts - which are now entirely paid back) and have no intention of going back to any sort of "fuller" way of life. This suits me to the ground.

I recognize what you are saying but my solution (shared with many) already factors it in. The controllers have zero control over Bitcoin, a DEFLATIONARY currency, and precious metals they have much less control than fiat money and would cripple them.

Instilling any kind of competing currency will cut off their blood flow. First by soft suffocation, and shortly after more and more people join in (because it serves them positively as well), then more and more the noose will tighten over the controllers. The only thing that would stop it would be martial law or some other drastic action, which may serve as a catalyst for a much more potent awakening in many people.

Imagine, people could choose what currency they want at first, and so they go with the one that suits them best. A competing currency could likely buy more for less, which raises its inherent value to others using it, which in turn creates more and more followers. This of course would then follow by some form of attack against it, which I would assume would include propaganda, followed by a Problem-Reaction-Solution type of response expectation, but I bet it would backfire because people, while largely dumb and asleep, are also after what suits them best and makes the most sense. And when things go counter to that (like a bad call in football or something), then the crowd will be in uproar, and it will be hard to quell. I think it would absolutely change everything. No wonder Dr. Paul suggested it so many years ago and held fast to the idea.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by fourthmeal

 

Exchanging one form of currency for another will make no difference. You have to take them to a level where they cannot breathe anymore. You have to cut off their blood flow. Money is what feeds them and lack of it is the only thing that will weaken them.

It's really not hard to live on precious little. Really, it feels good to live in a very uncomplicated manner. Once you get rid of the idea that new, shiny stuff is cool, you can get down to seeing the real value in things. Bit by bit you find that you don't even want any of that crap anymore. And before long, you have a whole lot of peace of mind, body, and spirit.

I honestly don't know why people cry about austerity. It's really very nice. I've been at it for several years now (because of my own debts - which are now entirely paid back) and have no intention of going back to any sort of "fuller" way of life. This suits me to the ground.

reply to post by fourthmeal


The trouble is that once those in control of any currency gain that much power, corruption is virtually guaranteed. We don't do well with this sort of system. Humans have not yet evolved sufficiently to resist their own egos and the creature comforts that flatter them. We need a period of "cooling off" to gain perspective on this thing. We need to understand that all work is equally important and that we need to do the work we love. Money is what compels us to do things we don't really want to but have to so that we survive. Most people live and die without ever having tasted their dreams. There is no good reason for that. Note the very important word "good" there.

For once in our history we could actually live as we preach. We hold ourselves in such high esteem and yet fail on every single front. It's time to surrender the ego and start living fairly and benevolently. Money can take a rest now. If it's ever relevant again, it could return but for now we have a whole lot of soul searching to do first.