Judging Freemasonry by its' enemies - and why I accept the organizations benevolence.

As we know people can be good in general yet do evil things. Same applies to societies. I've been seeing people ranting about how Freemasonry is a diabolical plot to enslave humanity but I have reason to rebuke that notion.

IF you were to judge Freemasonry by its' enemies and persecutors you would come to realize both the Nazis and Russian Communists persecuted the Freemasons.

Clearly both of these nations were bent on world domination, so I have decided that Freemasons are staunchly against any nation or party that seeks global domination.

The organization is Machiavellian at worst. And unstoppable at that. This is just opinion, I'm sure there is a dark side of Freemasonry, but the fear mongering is getting ridiculous.

reply to post by On7a7higher7plane


Comments welcome. I'd like to see someone put out facts that insinuate the contrary of my belief.

I'm not particularly interested in secret societies. Which leads me to not be very knowledgeable about them.

But, it seems to me that a lot of the conspiracies and speculation about them, is caused by their inherent secrecy. Almost as if they are encouraging it by their refusal to clear stuff up.

Whether benevolent, malevolent, or indifferent they are the root of their own reputation. And could sway it in either direction if they chose to.

reply to post by On7a7higher7plane


I agree with you OP. Only as I dont see them as being benevolent. I would argue that being the oathkeepers of sacred knowledge and stuff, it is their duty to see that it passes from generation to generation for the good of all society. If force is necessary, then by all means, let them have it.

reply to post by thehoneycomb


Right, looking back it seems that benevolent is too broad a term to describe such a massive and complicated organization.

Although I won't argue for or against Freemasonry, I do believe this is flawed logic. I think it's a big mistake to look at history in the terms of good vs bad. It's very common for two sides to have horrifying 'flaws' fighting against each other for any number of reasons.

For instance, far right-wing radical conservative Muslims were enemies of Communism.

The Nazi's and Communists were also enemies.

Just because two groups of people have conflicting ideas that lead to them becoming enemies doesn't mean that one of those ideas is automatically pure, IMO.

Originally posted by On7a7higher7plane
The organization is Machiavellian at worst. And unstoppable at that.

I fail to see how Freemasonry is either Machiavellian nor unstoppable. Please clarify that...

reply to post by The_Phantom


Oops I starred your post. My mistake and apologies.

does your opinion change when millions of innocent people are murdered?

My Fellow ATSian...

Greetings...
Freemason is Good. But!!!!
But his mission herein in the US has wrought a gross liberty that exceeds the merits of ideas they so blatantly invoke. Too many freedomsand too many mortals who have been percieved goodand made better now prey upon the countries weaknesses. In particular... THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN!

I Am Pinocchio...
I Will Come Again!

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by The_Phantom

 

Oops I starred your post. My mistake and apologies.

does your opinion change when millions of innocent people are murdered?

No, I believe that is the work of evil men...I also believe that there are many evil men in this world. I don't believe that all victims of evil men automatically had pure motives during their lifetimes...but they are still victims. I also believe that people should be protected from evil regardless of what their motives in life are. Life is more complex then good vs bad.

reply to post by The_Phantom


and the most complex part of that, is understanding the difference.

reply to post by On7a7higher7plane


Freemasonry might just be an outline for a future society which allows ignorance to exist at a controlled state.

As society progresses the power that those with knowledge wield will be a great responsibility, one that may even need to be kept to yourself. I can see a world where immortals and cyborgs exist behind a veil of intentional confusion and manufactured ignroance.

There is no great form of self-destruction than to create a world in which you could have never existed. The hero chops of the head of the serpent and says "what a good boy am i" not knowing that he has killed that which created him.

jimmy savile was a high ranking mason as are most if not all the high ranking police and heads of industry. Which is why he was allowed to do what ever he liked for almost 50 yrs. abusing and raping children, Yes free masons are good people...

both the Nazis and Russian Communists persecuted the Freemasons.

The catholics hate them also, at least the church does right?

Originally posted by CB328

both the Nazis and Russian Communists persecuted the Freemasons.

The catholics hate them also, at least the church does right?

Yes. See a pattern here? Hitler had Freemasons rounded up and put in concentration camps because he couldn't control them. Saddam Hussein had Masons beheaded in Iraq for like reasons. The Catholic Church hasn't, to my knowledge, killed any Masons directly simply for their affiliation, but they've declared that a Catholic who becomes a Masons should be excommunicated. If one were to believe that the Masons had any relationship to the Knights Templar, then one could argue that the church's tactics haven't changed—demonize the free thinkers who threaten the church's control over the sheeple masses and make them look like bad guys by slandering their name.

There is a universal truth contained within scripture that is applicable today. When a man is not accountable to the Creator, he becomes accountable to men. Men form the governments, the beasts of this world. Absolute power corrupts, and the fact that Freemason tentacles control this realm - our courts, our Presidents, our corporate leadership, our church pulpits and our media - clearly supports their brazen Olympic message of "Rule The World". God warns His children throughout scripture that the moment that man stops becoming accountable to Him alone for their morality and ethics, that destruction will come in the form of tyranny and despotism by men. We all see the tyranny and dictatorship on our horizon, and yet we continually accept the Freemason statements on this board that continually degrade "fundamental Christians" at every turn. The reason is obvious, a fundamental Christian fully believes God Himself and refuses to bow to the Freemason beast government and it's teachings. Thousands of Christian pastors and priests are Freemasons, and thus end up preaching a false gospel message which entirely ruins millions and keeps them enslaved to them - the beast.

If you will not serve the God of Heaven, you will serve the beast. Right now the iron teeth of this final beast is trampling the Earth because it can after having removed Christ Jesus from the minds and hearts of most. Generations have been raised to rely on the state and not the Creator, and this could only have occurred through systematic indoctrination of the love of sin into a society, for it hardens hearts against the Creator. They created a path that leads to total tyranny because they swayed their subjects to cry and shout "We have no king but Ceasar." They have created that last generation that is fighting Christ Jesus - and we clearly see the crowds today stripping Him from our laws, our courts, our schools and our kids. What they inadvertently do is remove the only One who promised to make them free from this tyranny. It's why our resident "Christian Freemasons" right here on ATS continually preach against obedience to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and deny His Son as the way, the truth and the life. Their words of "tolerance" appeal to those who are blind to the Creator and who therefore cannot understand who and what the beast represents - their control by Satan and tyrannical power hungry men. They want their Earthly rule, and just like the "teachers and leaders" of the Jews two thousand years ago, crucify Jesus to have it.

What was, will be again.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Could you possibly point me to some threads in which the Masons on ATS "continually preach against" ANY RELIGION?
That is not the way of the Masons that I personally know!

Originally posted by On7a7higher7plane
reply to post by On7a7higher7plane

 

.

I used to have no problems with freemasons until I realized that they are all around me here in the states, run a lot of authority in most places, are generally more sexist and old fashioned and controlling than other male figures and like to do crap behind your back and against your rights because they can get away with it.

When you have problem after problem with freemasons all your life knowing they think all you're good for is to marry up with somebody but you'll never be able to do that without learning how to do what you're told and stop thinking you have an opinion of the real world or a right to know things, then you also begin to realize that they are situated all across the US are the types who run the town. They run more than the town and you know what they are doing? They are screwing crap up.

There are certain things that people think only men can handle or should have a say in. There's a lot of things children have no say in, like war... but it sure as hell effects them doesn't it?

A lot of issues that effect the plethora of people freemasons feel are people who do not need to know quite a bit of information effect everyone.

Yeah, when I look around, I see a lot of crap that is the fault of the very type of person who thinks it is only they who can fix things. As a matter of fact, all this crap is built on a history that was largely created by men like them. How the hell did their society for so long go around thinking that not even their own wives could be privvy to any of this yet they are doing such a terrible job.

The truth is, these men have been impassioned by conflict for ages and the very woman among them they have kept secrets from for the most part had nothing to do with it, and if they did... it was because of some man they knew.

Where the hell do they get off thinking it's best to keep secrets from women? THEY screwed the stuff up! Their rituals are generally extremely silly or purposeless in my opinion.

Yes, I know they've done some good things but I'm not going to be satisfied until every freemason gets out of my hair. Maybe you don't understand how many freemasons are in the south east but these #ers are overbearing and annoying.

they jump to conclusions, are intolerant, think they know all kinds of stuff, try to figure out even more stuff from people in unacceptable ways with no attempt at collaboration if it is not another male like himself and think they have full right to manage society in very compartmentalized ways. They expect generally what is stereotypical out of people and wants everything to remain in their traditional roles and structures with them being the men in charge.


In other words... They cause problems.

Look around at how things are and know who's been in charge, what men have been in charge for the last two hundred years.Rest assured that if you are in the states, it's your local freemasons.

It's not just exaggerated horror stories. It's who's running our towns.

Why is it so important to bitch about it? Because the madness has to stop. The secrecy, the controlling of people and the thwarting of finding the true resolution to real problems, because you can't know the resolution if we don't know the damn truth!

They don't want resolution because they don't believe in resolution, they believe in control. People don't think society can get better, so they sink into the status quo and hold their traditional role and ground like a powersource, close their mind to spreading truth and put their trust in secrecy and deception.

In a big way, they betray the people around them because they don't give things a chance if it's outside of their control. They are suppressors in society.

I've known a lot of freemasons. I know how I have been personally treated by different types in society. THEY need to hear it because THEY are holding the wheel in MANY MANY cases.

If a secret comes to your town which will effect the people of it, I guarantee the first to know will likely be the masons of your town. Who will decide how it's handled, they will, who will decide of people will even learn of it whether they need to or not, they will. Until just about every issue important to you, gets to you... it goes through freemasons... and that's why they need to hear the damn complaints.

We also don't want people near us being freemasons because we will not know unless they confide it and if they are, they will probably start doing all sorts of weird stuff like a tiny tuned down tyrant and talking to everyone else like they are dumb, because once they feel like they are "in the know" it will start showing.

So I will keep yacking about freemasons until they are all away from me or they learn to keep their freemasonry away from me.

Originally posted by On7a7higher7plane
As we know people can be good in general yet do evil things. Same applies to societies. I've been seeing people ranting about how Freemasonry is a diabolical plot to enslave humanity but I have reason to rebuke that notion.

IF you were to judge Freemasonry by its' enemies and persecutors you would come to realize both the Nazis and Russian Communists persecuted the Freemasons.

Clearly both of these nations were bent on world domination, so I have decided that Freemasons are staunchly against any nation or party that seeks global domination.

The organization is Machiavellian at worst. And unstoppable at that. This is just opinion, I'm sure there is a dark side of Freemasonry, but the fear mongering is getting ridiculous.

I think your logic is somewhat faulty, in that it is based on a faulty supposition. Let us stretch our imaginations for a moment and imagine nazi germany at war with communist russia. Does that mean nazi germany is against the idea of world domination? Or maybe only that they (our hypothetical nazis) want to ensure that THEY are the ones to dominate the world?

That being said, I also believe that masonry itself is benevolent.

Originally posted by The_Phantom
For instance, far right-wing radical conservative Muslims were enemies of Communism.

And radical Muslims, along with other fundementalist religous wackos, are also against Masonry and its free-thinking ideals.

Control never works if people actually use their brains.