There was no good reason for dropping Nukes on Japan during WW II

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posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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bet the chinese were cheering in the streets when we hit Nagasaki and Hiroshima,probally thought it was a consolation prize for all that raping,pillaging,medical expirments and forced sex trafficking and labor that the Japanese had been doing to them and other Asians since the early 30's

R. J. Rummel, a professor of political science at the University of Hawaii, states that between 1937 and 1945, the Japanese military murdered from nearly 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most likely 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. "This democide was due to a morally bankrupt political and military strategy, military expediency and custom, and national culture."[36] According to Rummel, in China alone, during 1937–45, approximately 3.9 million Chinese were killed, mostly civilians, as a direct result of the Japanese operations and 10.2 million in the course of the war



Historian Mitsuyoshi Himeta reports that a "Three Alls Policy" (Sankō Sakusen) was implemented in China from 1942 to 1945 and was in itself responsible for the deaths of "more than 2.7 million" Chinese civilians. This scorched earth strategy, sanctioned by Hirohito himself, directed Japanese forces to "Kill All, Burn All, and Loot All."
these were the people we were fighting and that was their stratagy "every one is inferior to us and will be our slaves when we carve out our east-co-prosperity sphere"




Human experimentation and biological warfare Shiro Ishii, commander of Unit 731 Special Japanese military units conducted experiments on civilians and POWs in China and Korea. One of the most infamous was Unit 731 under Shirō Ishii. Victims were subjected to experiments including but not limited to vivisection and amputations without anesthesia and testing of biological weapons. Anesthesia was not used because it was believed to affect results.[45]

en.wikipedia.org...
and

Use of chemical weapons See also: Changde chemical weapon attack According to historians Yoshiaki Yoshimi and Kentaro Awaya, during the Second Sino-Japanese War, gas weapons, such as tear gas, were used only sporadically in 1937 but in the spring of 1938, however the Imperial Japanese Army began full-scale use of phosgene, chlorine, Lewisite and nausea gas (red), and from summer 1939, mustard gas (yellow) was used against both Kuomintang and Communist Chinese troops.[61] According to Yoshimi and Seiya Matsuno, Emperor Hirohito signed orders specifying the use of chemical weapons in China.[62] For example, during the Battle of Wuhan from August to October 1938, the Emperor authorized the use of toxic gas on 375 separate occasions, despite Article 23 of the Hague Conventions (1899 and 1907)[18] and article V of the Treaty in Relation to the Use of Submarines and Noxious Gases in Warfare[63] A resolution adopted by the League of Nations on 14 May condemned the use of poison gas by Japan.



According to GlobalSecurity.org, the experiments carried out by Unit 731 alone caused 3,000 deaths.[47] Furthermore, according to the 2002 International Symposium on the Crimes of Bacteriological Warfare, the number of people killed by the Imperial Japanese Army germ warfare and human experiments is around 580,000.
so yeah i think karmicly it about ends up being square in the end as thats about the low estimate of how many people our bombs killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

furthermore to the people saying that those cities were not legitimate targets don't seem to know much about where the Japanese command structure for repulsing(2nd Japanese army group command and 5th command division) the invasion was based i believe at Hiroshima,with the bulk of Japanese remaining naval ops being routed through Nagasaki harbor and owing to the fact that up to this point no bombers had hit Hiroshima or Nagasaki it could better show off the bombs effect on what mounted to a military target that had yet to be hit with firebombs or other conventional munitions.also this was still ww2 and blind carpet bombing was still the norm for the era (check out dresden now that was closer to a war crime)and as horrible as it sounds to us now adays those nukes were almost an act of mercy compared to the extensive firebombing that had been going on near the tail end of ww2
edit on 18-10-2012 by RalagaNarHallas because: (no reason given)


www.alternatehistory.com... here is the link to the article on the typhoon possibly complicating us invasion plans and the psycological effect it would have had on the japanese as a people and how it would have basicly made them fight in such a way that we almost would have had to exterminate them as a race just to stop them at that point
edit on 18-10-2012 by RalagaNarHallas because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by Baldryck
 


Might be 2003. Let me check it out and I'll come back to you with a link.

**EDIT**

OK, The place I got the info which I won't post because I think the info's bogus..."#$%*&#@!"
I hate that!! One source says in between 2003 and 2006 -- 650 000 civilian casualties. It kept going like that until 2010. Then a few foot notes on recent events. I decided to cross reference this on Wikipedia and I got a whole different bunch of numbers. Now I'm gonna research this even further because now I'm kinda mad that the info was bovine feces weither it's Wiki or the other one. grrrrrr.
-
By the way quick question. Is Wiki reliable? I don't really go on there so...
edit on 18-10-2012 by XLR8R because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-10-2012 by XLR8R because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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I believe it helped end the war quicker. but i also agree it was unnecessary.



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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Perhaps they shouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbor unprovoked, or been fooling around in Alaska, some how I feel my grandfather who involved in 17 invasions felt differently than OP. Why should have more Americans have to die, they wanted a fight, they got the fight of their lives. Now they are our 'buddies', and keepers of crazy fetishes and tentacle porn.

War is hell. It's not some lollipop dance in the park.



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Evanzsayz
 

The day will come when you will look blackness in the eye and it will stare back at you and you will know you screwed up.

Remember this conversation when you look into that big black eyeball and crap your panties.



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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I had also read before about it being a show of force to the Soviets. I find that kind of ironic because it didn't seem to bother them at all, they just went ahead and built their own and did as they pleased anyway.

Can't say if I agree or disagree with it though, it was a different time. I disagree with it being who I am in this day and age, but I do know that if I was a soldier who fought in the pacific theater and witnessed some of what the Japanese did, i would have been behind it 100%



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by PrplHrt
 




They shouldn't have bombed Pearl Harbor.


They were lured into attacking. First they were provoked by sanctions (to a point necessary, but never the less with a predictable outcome).

lured into attacking
..give me a break..how is someone lured into attacking..if japan would of gave up their murderous expansion into china and the dutch east indies the sanctions would of likley been dropped..i really hope your comment wasnt to be taken seriously



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by mymymy
 

The only reason the Russian bomb project advanced as fast as it did was because some of "our" people turned out to be spies for them. Stinking traitors.



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by PrplHrt
 


I don't doubt you one bit sir. It makes me wonder what the world would be like now had that not have happened. I imagine not that many countries would have the bomb today, which also makes me wonder how many of the wars after would have occurred. If Russia wouldn't have been able to back North Korea or North Vietnam with that threat, would they have even happened?



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by mymymy
 

We'd still be where we're at today. Nukes were inevitable. Man's insatiable curiosity drives him to open forbidden doors. We continue to play God with things like DNA, creating clones and modifying our food supply.

One of these days we're going to wake up and something is going to be looking back at us.



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by vonclod
 


Nations do not live in a vacuum, it is all a question of equilibrium. Like why do you think Saddam invaded Kuwait (If you are still into the "because he was crazy") you are being too naive to understand geopolitics and international policies...

The same occurred with Japan. Do you know the history of the nation ? Do you understand why Japan was forced to quickly industrialize and westernize ? Do you understand where most top Japanese military got their instructions ?

The expansionism was partially the same as in Saddam case, a result of a nod, nod, wink, wink, but Japan had more reasons to commit to it. Russia, to take advantage of the instability in China (the number of deaths by Japan were large but consider how many people had died on starvation or during the period of warlords or simply as result of the opium policy of the Anglo-American interests. Things do not happen in a vacuum of by chance, especially war, it is always at least planned and carefully considered...



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 


Worse things were done in WWII than that. Firebombing Germany? Churchill's idea.

But you have to wonder; if we hadn't nuked them, would they have used their air force? Because they had a sizeable one at the time, and it would have been a pretty solid threat



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by whiskeyjack
Worse things were done in WWII than that. Firebombing Germany? Churchill's idea.


More revisionism - why ignore that the Chinese wartime capital of Chongqing was firebombed by the Japanese starting in early 1939.?

Why ignore that "early in World War II many British cities were firebombed. Two particularly notable raids were the Coventry Blitz on 14 November 1940, and the blitz on London on the night of 29 December/30 December 1940, which was the most destructive raid on London during the war with much of the destruction caused by fires started by incendiary bombs. During the Coventry Blitz the Germans pioneered several innovations which were to influence all future strategic bomber raids during the war.[2] These were: The use of pathfinder aircraft with electronic aids to navigate, to mark the targets before the main bomber raid; The use of high explosive bombs
and air-mines coupled with thousands of incendiary bombs intended to set the city ablaze. "

en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 18-10-2012 by hellobruce because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 01:54 AM
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This is the kind of topic that can never be agreed upon (outside religion ofc
), and the main reason is really for national pride. I wouldn't blame an American for wanting to defend their nation from being dubbed the "militarie most evile", it's only instinctual - and if you've already got a kneejerk rebuttal then it's all good. That's only compounded by the fact they won in the Pacific, so they are writing the history. Same as Japan denying Nanking if you ask me.

The people I talk to outside America never agree with the decision. Those inside America (usually) stand by it. I can't take a side on this because... I'm weak, I'll admit it. But what I do know is, there are kids in the generation born today who still congenitally suffer ill effects due to the events that transpired almost seventy years ago, so the apparent prevention of further deaths sounds a little less appetizing.

It would help if people stopped calling each other "bloodthirsty warmongers" or "bleeding heart liberals" on matters like this. You can't fault people for defending what they know, and definitely not for having compassion for others.



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 02:16 AM
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Do you even understand why the bomb(s) were dropped or anything about Pearl harbour? Some may thing I am anti-American because of what I have said in the past, but there is a point where I am not.

America was coming out of it's self imposed isolationism by that point, realizing they could not actually remain neutral in the war unfortunately it was too late. The Japanese bombarded them and obliterated the bases defenses, and the base itself. The American's knew, whether Hitler or the Russians had prevailed during the attack, they had to come out for a long and drawn out war in which would have cost tens-hundreds-even millions of lives via two equally different cultures for another four-8 years.

The unfortunate side of letting Little and (big) boy is the immediate, and total destruction of 70k+ lives, but with the immediate surrender of Japan, we saw less casualties than we would have.

Get educated, grow up and do your #ing homework--and only then start posting.


*** Edit ***

Be ashamed of yourself, if there is any war the American's never lied about it was that. For those who are too moronic to actually look, history might actually prove the cold war started about the time of the communist rebellion happened, before world war II. But you would probably not actually tend to look at that, just like the second poster tended to see the Japanese as ready to surrender when bombarding American's, British and other's with their planes in suicide missions.

Let me guess: these suicide missions were brought on by Japanese officials who knew the truth: The American's were full of black-eyed creatures who sought world domination by X-files "black oil". Really? Get off this sight, learn from some books and veterans and get a clue. If you don't know much about world war II, or can only cite off disreputed or unknown sites....don't bother. Historian's, Philosopher's and many people who could see what you and I cannot see have done a better job at proving/disproving the war.

Don't you dare start spouting your version of the truth unless you can back it up with real proof. I want to see citations and interviews by survivors, veterans and political officials.

edit on 19-10-2012 by Munku because: You can't actually prove a god damned thing.
edit on 19-10-2012 by Munku because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by daaskapital
Too bad that the dropping of the bombs is what led to the Cold War


In my opinion, the dropping of the bombs should be considered as a war crime. But, when was the last time the USA got done on War Crimes

.


So you don't consider this a war crime?:
www.toddlertime.com...

They got exactly what they deserved!



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 
regardless of how the war ended or whom was ready to surrender it still stands as the single best fireworks display in recorded history!!!.............hell yeah lets drop another one! wont bother me or those I care for were amply prepared!



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by maxrockerfella
reply to post by FortAnthem
 
regardless of how the war ended or whom was ready to surrender it still stands as the single best fireworks display in recorded history!!!.............hell yeah lets drop another one! wont bother me or those I care for were amply prepared!




I think this is why so many people have anti-American views in general. It's not the fact that such atrocities happen in war, because you can't blame the American people as a whole, and certainly not their descendents.

But it's apathy like this that's reprehensible, and gives people the tar which they brush an entire nation with.
edit on 19-10-2012 by ihavenoaccount because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 03:47 AM
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50% = 300,000 in 6 weeks time.

Those are all the facts I've need to know or EVER need to know to believe we did the right thing and the ONLY thing that could be done to end the Pacific War. No one, no matter how much they may try, will convince me otherwise. Not only did American troops watch Japanese Civilians fight and then commit suicide to a person on Okinawa for a horror show preview of what the Home Islands were going to be , but whatever the warm and good people of Japan are today, the Nippon Empire was NOT kind. It knew NO form of compassion or empathy or basic common DECENCY outside the Japanese people and Japanese Culture.



The Japanese Imperial Army marching on the Chinese Capital city of Nanking in December of 1937. This was by far NOT the only case but it is the best documented case of exceptional Japanese military atrocities during World War II. 600,000 people populated the Capital city when the Japanese arrived, Six Weeks Later.......300,000 were still alive. The accounts not only of first hand eye witnesses but of recorded film and still photographs tell a tale beyond what most can likely ever imagine.

The horror and slaughter got so extreme that history records cables from the German Ambassador to China appealing to Adolph Hitler for intervention to force the Japanese to stop. Internationals and Embassy staffs worked together to form a safe zone which the Japanese reportedly respected...mostly...and that stopped countless more from adding to a body count exceeding Three Hundred Thousand People.

This is a brief account - The Rape of Nanking

That link gives a summary overview compared to some much more in-depth books written on the events there. It's a dark chapter I've read news reports saying the Japanese still don't get all the details of in history. Don't know if that's true...but the events of Nanking are documented by the nationals from several nations as well as Tokyo Newspapers covering the slaughter like it was a sporting event.


So....... We can debate the American side of the coin for whether we should have allowed ourselves to sink so low in the end, to defeat those who'd STARTED below that point to begin with.

However, regardless how how Japan has changed, history ABSOLUTELY shows a very different reality then and a radically different Japanese culture, society and set of values. We could have atomized 2 cities or we could have fought them across every last hill and goat path of the Home island Chain and likely obliterated Japan as any functional nation. Bombing ruined them.....,The invasion would have simply ended their existence...again...as they showed without ANY question on Okinawa and other Islands.

^^ That's just one person's very strongly held views on that particular issue. Apologists for the War Time conduct of the Axis powers...and especially the Japanese Imperial military, are apologists for Evil, IMO.



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Wifibrains
 


Since when, in warfare do you fight "fair"?

You fight to win, with as few losses to yourself as possible.

Fight fair? Nonsense.

A simplified argument bordering on the childish.
Yes, this is how you imagine the theory and the history of war - hopefully up to sixth or seventh grade only.

History shows that people who embraced "total war" have never succeeded in the long term.
The best win is if you don't even have to fight the battle.

Read Sun Tzu.





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