Originally posted by FortAnthem
Originally posted by PrplHrt
Does it even matter to the naysayers in this thread that thousands of Americans might have died in an assault on the Japanese homeland, or does covering your own butt in war not count anymore?
What matters to me is that thousands of people died needlessly. Japan was ready to surrender to the Allies long before the bomb was dropped.
American officials, having long since broken Japan's secret codes, knew from intercepted messages that the country's leaders were seeking to end the war on terms as favorable as possible. Details of these efforts were known from decoded secret communications between the Foreign Ministry in Tokyo and Japanese diplomats abroad.
In his 1965 study, Atomic Diplomacy: Hiroshima and Potsdam (pp. 107, 108), historian Gar Alperovitz writes:
Although Japanese peace feelers had been sent out as early as September 1944 (and [China's] Chiang Kai-shek had been approached regarding surrender possibilities in December 1944), the real effort to end the war began in the spring of 1945. This effort stressed the role of the Soviet Union ...
In mid-April  the [US] Joint Intelligence Committee reported that Japanese leaders were looking for a way to modify the surrender terms to end the war. The State Department was convinced the Emperor was actively seeking a way to stop the fighting.
It was only after the war that the American public learned about Japan's efforts to bring the conflict to an end. Chicago Tribune reporter Walter Trohan, for example, was obliged by wartime censorship to withhold for seven months one of the most important stories of the war.
In an article that finally appeared August 19, 1945, on the front pages of the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Times-Herald, Trohan revealed that on January 20, 1945, two days prior to his departure for the Yalta meeting with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials. (The complete text of Trohan's article is in the Winter 1985-86 Journal, pp. 508-512.)
This memo showed that the Japanese were offering surrender terms virtually identical to the ones ultimately accepted by the Americans at the formal surrender ceremony on September 2 -- that is, complete surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor.
Was Hiroshima Necessary?
What I wonder about is why the allies continued their aggression long after the Japanese had signaled their intent to surrender? How many soldiers died needlessly in the months after Japan had offered unconditional surrender?
If America had invaded the mainland and thousands of soldiers on both sides had died, the ones who had ignored the offers of surrender would have been complicit in all those deaths, just as they are complicit in the deaths from the atomic bombs.
edit on 10/17/12 by FortAnthem because: [color=#3b3b3b]Why vote for the lesser evil? Vote CTHULHU for president in 2012
Originally posted by PrplHrt
It was us or them and I'm glad it was them. They had numerous chances to surrender and they didn't. They brought it upon themselves with their stubborn attitude.
They shouldn't have bombed Pearl Harbor. Perhaps we wouldn't have been so ruthless if they had thought twice about attacking us in such a fashion.
Older Americans have NOT FORGOTTEN.
Originally posted by hellobruce
Originally posted by FortAnthem
Japan was ready to surrender to the Allies long before the bomb was dropped.
Revisionist claptrap. If Japan had really wanted to surrender they would have. After the first bomb they did not surrender, after the 2nd bomb they did not want to surrender, there was even a attempt at a military coup, and only after the emperor stepping in and making a public radio broadcast for the first time did Japan surrender.
You either surrender or you dont, it is not a matter of "wanting" to surrender.
Monday, August 6, will mark one of the United States’ most important but unheralded anniversaries. It is remarkable not only for what happened on this day in 1945 but for what did not happen subsequently. What did happen was that the “Enola Gay,” an American B-29 bomber from the obscure 509th Composite Group (a U.S. Army Air Force unit tasked with deploying nuclear weapons), dropped a uranium-based atomic bomb on the Japanese city of Hiroshima. It hastened the end of World War II, which concluded within a week after the August 9 detonation of a plutonium-based bomb over Nagasaki. Approximately 66,000 died in Hiroshima from the acute effects of the “Little Boy” bomb and about 35,000 more in Nagasaki from the “Fat Man” device. (The subsequent, short-term death toll rose significantly due to the effects of radiation and wounds.) Dangerous Stowaways At The Summer Olympics Henry I. Miller Henry I. Miller Contributor Fake And Flawed Medicines Threaten Us All Henry I. Miller Henry I. Miller Contributor Overzealous And Interventionist Feds Come Up Short On Drug Shortages Henry I. Miller Henry I. Miller Contributor Obama's Disdain For The Private Sector Henry I. Miller Henry I. Miller Contributor About a year after the war ended, the “was it necessary?” Monday-morning quarterbacks began to question the military necessity and morality of the use of nuclear weapons on Japanese cities. Since then, there have been periodic eruptions of revisionism, uninformed speculation and political correctness on this subject, perhaps the most offensive of which was the Smithsonian Institution’s plan for an exhibition of the Enola Gay for the 50th anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima. In a particularly repugnant exercise of political correctness, the exhibit was to emphasize the “victimization” of the Japanese, mentioning the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor only as the motivation for the “vengeance” sought by the United States. (The exhibit as originally conceived was eventually canceled.)
How the Atomic Bomb Saved 4,000,000 Lives Omaha World Herald | November, 1987 | Davis Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 3:20:44 PM by pabianice Invasion Not Found in the History Books Deep in the recesses of the National Archives in Washington, D.C., hidden for nearly four decades lie thousands of pages of yellowing and dusty documents stamped "Top Secret". These documents, now declassified, are the plans for Operation Downfall, the invasion of Japan during World War II. Only a few Americans in 1945 were aware of the elaborate plans that had been prepared for the Allied Invasion of the Japanese home islands. Even fewer today are aware of the defenses the Japanese had prepared to counter the invasion had it been launched. Operation Downfall was finalized during the spring and summer of 1945. It called for two massive military undertakings to be carried out in succession and aimed at the heart of the Japanese Empire.
The historian Chalmers Johnson has written that: "It may be pointless to try to establish which World War Two Axis aggressor, Germany or Japan, was the more brutal to the peoples it victimised. The Germans killed six million Jews and 20 million Russians (i.e. Soviet citizens); the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese. Both nations looted the countries they conquered on a monumental scale, though Japan plundered more, over a longer period, than the Nazis. Both conquerors enslaved millions and exploited them as forced labourers—and, in the case of the Japanese, as (forced) prostitutes for front-line troops. If you were a Nazi prisoner of war from Britain, America, Australia, New Zealand or Canada (but not the Soviet Union) you faced a 4% chance of not surviving the war; (by comparison) the death rate for Allied POWs held by the Japanese was nearly 30%."
Originally posted by rickymouse
I don't understand why the bomb wasn't dropped on the leaders of the Japan instead of on the regular people. I guess you are allowed to kill all the pawns but not the kings and queens. Notice in chess, the king is never killed. We are conditioned from young, and so were our ancestors, that we cannot kill the main character. Notice we didnpt bomb Hussein. We destroyed the army and civilians. The people of Iraq took it upon themselves to kill him when he was found. That was never allowed in the past, the ruler usually went into asylum somewhere else.
I guess the rules are changing. Now the leaders of the countries will have to worry about getting punished for their actions once again.